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Nicey
11-01-07, 06:14 AM
Good Article

Presidential Campaign Launched in America with Ethnic Cleansing in Iraq
As Debate Begins, Sunnis Decry Massacres
By Tom Hayden


Politically, the coming escalation by 20,000 US troops in Iraq is best understood as the comeback strategy of the neo-conservative Republicans rallying around Sen. John McCain's presidential banner.

The political spin-doctors are calling it a "surge", an aggressive term implying a kind of post-election erection for Bush and the neo-conservatives. In fact, or course, it is an escalation, a term apparently carrying too much baggage from Vietnam.

The hardcore neo-conservatives, their ranks thinned by defections publicized in Vanity Fair, leaped immediately to salvage the war from November's voter disapproval. Frederick Kagan of the American Enterprise Institute and William Kristol of The Weekly Standard began promoting an increase of 50,000 troops, mainly to Baghdad. Bush, who all along said he was listening to his generals, now sacked generals Casey and Abizaid, who had plans to reduce troop levels over one year ago, and who now opposed more American soldiers in Iraqi neighborhoods. John Negroponte, a specialist in the black arts of counter-intelligence, became the State Department's point man on Baghdad. US ambassador Zalman Khalilzad, a Sunni who has been critical of the Shi'a-controlled interior ministry, was removed from his Baghdad post. An Ivy League general, David Petraeus, with a counter-insurgency agenda to prove, took over command of US troops.

Right after the election, Sen. McCain was touring Baghdad with his potential running mate Sen. Joe Lieberman, promoting the plan to escalate, although supported by only 20 percent of Republicans, 11 percent of independent voters, and a statistically-insignificant 4 percent of Democrats [LA Times/Bloomberg, Dec. 11, 2006]

It is a brilliant strategy – for a faction dealt a losing hand.

If and when the 20,000 Americans plunge into Baghdad neighborhoods, there will be dramatic television coverage of soldiers at risk. It is possible, though far from easy, to "stabilize" a Baghdad neighborhood for several months or one year, carrying the surge into the next presidential cycle. The strategy fits the polling data showing only 21 percent of Americans favor immediate withdrawal, while the moderate middle might be open to an undefined new strategy if convinced it will shorten the war and bring the troops home.

More likely, the ranks of the peace movement are likely to swell with people angry over the perceived betrayal by Bush of the November voter mandate. A failure by majority Democrats to prevent the escalation will convince more people to take to the streets or look to 2008 for a fix.

If the proposal to escalate somehow is blocked by Congressional Democrats along with a few Republicans facing re-election, McCain and the neo-conservatives will be able to salvage a narrative blaming the "loss of Iraq" on Democrats. Their Plan B is to claim the US should have escalated from the very beginning.

The Baker-Hamilton Iraq Study Group report offered a hint that this escalation was coming in its formulaic compromise stating that it "could" support a "short-term redeployment or surge" but only if "the US commander in Iraq determines that such steps would be effective." With the arrival of a new commander in Iraq, that mission is accomplished.

The term "could" represents one of the partisan trade-offs in the writing of the Report. The Republicans on the ISG would have been advocating the optional language on behalf of the White House while others tried to weaken the "could" by relying on a commander like Gen. Casey to nix it.

US Sides with Shiites in civil war

Meanwhile, as the politicians position themselves in Washington, urgent appeals from Iraqis warned of Shi'a death squads being unleashed against Sunni neighborhoods. The Baghdad security plan agreed in a teleconference last week being Bush and Prime Minister al-Maliki already is underway. According to al-Jazeera the Shiite militia attacks and roundups began on Sunday. The parliamentarian and peace advocate Saleh al-Mutlaq denounced the plan as an attempt to cleanse Baghdad of the Sunni majority it had in 2003. The Association of Muslim Scholars and Iraqi satellite TV stations began transmitting cries for help from relatives and neighbors in Baghdad.

Already tens of thousands have fled Baghdad, the largest percentage of the nearly one million Iraqis who have been displaced according to the United Nations. Forty thousand have relocated in Falluja. There they stand in a parking lot surrounded by razor wire, are hand-searched, given retinal scans, and provided ID's to enter Falluja, or weeded out. [LA Times, Jan. 4, 2007]

Baghdad itself, once a diverse city of five million, has become the Shi'a capital, with fifty of 51 governing officials being from Shi'a parties. The security forces, as well as the "commandos" and "public order brigades" under the Interior Ministry are from Shi'a militias. Having fostered, equipped, financed and trained these sectarian forces, US officials have attempted to distance themselves from the scandal, for example claiming in 2006 they only "recently learned" that the 7,700 members of the public order brigades were Shi'a. [New York Times, Mar. 7, 2006]

A media or Congressional investigation of these death squads operating under official auspices might begin by interviewing James Steele, Gerald Burke and Ann Bertucci, who were police advisers attached to the US Civil Police Assistance Training Team in Baghdad. [New York Times, May 22, 2006]The commando teams were developed by Steele and Burke under the direction of Gen. Petraeus at the time. Steele was quoted in 2006 as "not regretting their creation" but worried they had grown out of control. Bertucci admitted that American advisers were attached to the so-called Iraqi Volcano Brigade which committed infamous massacres on August 24, 2005. On that day, dozens of men wearing police uniforms entered a Sunni neighborhood, dragged 36 men out of their homes, shot them in their heads and spilled acid on their faces, an episode recounted in the international press. The US also runs brutal interrogation operations through its secret Task Force 626 in "black rooms" at Camp Nama, whitewashed in a 2004 report by Gen. William G. Boykin, the Christian evangelical who regularly denounces Islam. [New York Times, Mar. 19, 2006]

The hand-over of the interior ministry to the Shi'a Badr militia, an organ of the Supreme Command of the Islamic Revolution in Iraq [SCIRI] was completed in 2005, when Bayan Jabr took over the ministry from a prior Sunni official. Jabr was in charge in November 2005 when a secret prison holding 172 abused and malnourished inmates was discovered. There are up to ten unofficial jails in Baghdad alone run by a Special Interrogations Unit reporting to the minister alone, where prisoners are held without charges.

After years of flirtation, the US has rejected decisively any plans for peace talks with opposition leaders, including insurgent groups. Last week US and Iraqi troops even stormed the headquarters of an Iraqi parliamentarian known to advocate a US withdrawal and peace talks with the insurgents; six people, including a family of four, died in the attack. [see Huffington Post file]

Instead, the US is siding ever more deeply with the Shi'a parties that came to power with the assistance of US tanks, artillery and aircraft in March 2003. By 2005, US officials were "lowering their sights" from establishing democracy to "slowly realizing we will have some form of Islamic Republic." [Washington Post, Aug. 14, 2005]

The wild card in this scenario all along has been Moktada al-Sadr, the Iraqi Shi'a cleric representing the Sadr City slums, whose Mahdi militia has fought the US on two occasions and who demands a US withdrawal. In a must-read investigative article by Robert Collier of the San Francisco Chronicle this week, an al-Sadr spokesmen said the US was attempting "to inflame a civil war", and al-Sadr himself was quoted as saying:

"if I were qualified to give a fatwa, I would do so without hesitation in order to ban the killing of our [Sunni] brothers in Iraq and outside of Iraq." – SF Chronicle, Jan. 7, 2007

Whether al-Sadr is the target of the unfolding escalation is the great unknown, but a Newsweek poll in September 2006 showed a majority of Shi'a themselves – as opposed to their party leaders – support armed resistance against the Americans [63 percent] and a one-year deadline for withdrawal. [80 percent] That from the constituency that benefited from the American invasion. If the Americans attack al-Sadr's Mahdi Army in the streets of Sadr City, it could bring down the Iraqi government where al-Sadr's 40 seats are crucial to Prime Minister al-Maliki. In that scenario, al-Sadr could align with other parliamentary blocs, attempt a peaceful coup, and demand the Americans leave. Alternatively, a "provisional government" is being discussed by some.

Poignant confirmation that the US sides with the current Shi'a rulers surfaced unexpectedly in the videos taken last week of the execution of Saddam Hussein, now causing a public relations nightmare for American officials. It is noteworthy to point out that, without the video, there would have been no public knowledge of the repellent sectarianism in the gallows chamber. Since then, US officials have sought to distance themselves from the role of executioners, but it will not be easy. The US Regime Crimes Liaison Office was the "behind the scenes organizer" of Saddam's trial, in which one judge was removed as too lenient and three defense lawyers were assassinated, according to the New York Times.[1] <#_ftn1> With the approval of Condoleeza Rice, US Task Force 134 delivered Saddam to his Iraqi executors, knowing that death would be inflicted on a Sunni holy day without independent witnesses or even the approval of the head of Iraq's Supreme Judicial Council.

In the end, it appeared that the American propaganda investments of decades were dealt a serious blow. Saddam managed to conduct himself with immense dignity, even as the noose tightened around his neck; he thanked his American minders; he told the Iraqi national security adviser not to worry. Meanwhile, the hanging party turned out to be southern Shi'a militia members shouting sectarian chants, including "Moktada." It was the forbidden camera revealed the nature of America's allies in Iraq.

Seen in this light, the surge is actually a purge, a forced removal of Sunnis from Baghdad to the enclaves of al-Anbar, al-Diyala, and other parts of the Sunni Triangle, where they will be subject to assault by American troops and air power far from the scrutiny of journalists. A key element in the cleansing process will be special units from Kurdistan, the peshmerga, whose sole interest is dissolving the Iraqi state. If Baghdad's Sunnis succumb to forced ethnic cleansing, they will be fulfilling the proposed agenda of a partitioned "end of Iraq" long favored by Peter Galbraith and Leslie Gelb. In this scenario, the Sunnis are being asked to end support for the insurgency in exchange for second-class status in an Iraq dominated by Shiites, Kurds and the United States. Relocated and trapped in their enclaves, the Sunnis will likely become more radicalized, not less, allying themselves with homegrown al-Qaeda units and Sunni exiles next door in Jordan, Syria, and Saudi Arabia. There they will continue fighting for the restoration of Baathist officers to protect their zones, and demand an equitable share of oil revenues and job funding. If necessary, they may even create a parallel entity seeking diplomatic recognition from their neighbors. [al-Qaeda already claims to be establishing a provisional Islamic state in Sunni-populated areas.]

It is little remembered that President Bush spoke of such a scenario just after the September 11, 2001 attacks. He promised not only to pursue those he termed terrorists and states harboring terrorists, but also of plans to "turn them one against another" until they would have "no refuge and no rest." Those words are coming true in Iraq. [speech to Congress, Sept. 20, 2001]

But the escalation can flounder. More American troops means more hated occupiers, even if they come promising jobs. More American troops mean more targets for snipers. If the American surge becomes overwhelming, the insurgents always can retreat to other battlefronts, and wait, like modern Lilliputians against Gulliver.

First, however, the battle will be at home, state by state, district by district. Bush must convince the Democrats and several wavering Republicans to join him in snubbing the November 7 election results and the recommendations of the Baker-Hamilton Commission. That will not be easy, but the Democrats may compromise on funding some sort of escalation with the usual "benchmarks." In that case, the 2008 elections will play out as a struggle to either uphold or reverse the peace mandate of November 2006.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAulj5Pmzw

:handshake:

JRG
11-01-07, 03:16 PM
Puring more troops into Iraq will just create more targets and more martyrs in the insurgency, a totally pointless reaction that will result in increased casualty yields.

Bush will not let go and is only compounding his mistake with the corpses of US service personnel.

He's too stupid to be called a war criminal.

Hollowman
11-01-07, 07:41 PM
True, but any pullout of troops would have to entail a large increase in their numbers first for security reasons anyway, so they'll have to go there at some point.

JRG
11-01-07, 07:43 PM
True, but any pullout of troops would have to entail a large increase in their numbers first for security reasons anyway, so they'll have to go there at some point.

May I ask why you'd expect reinforcements prior to a withdrawal?

CharlieMansonsSquint
11-01-07, 07:46 PM
He's too stupid to be called a war criminal.

He's out the door in 18 months. What the fuck does he care? Somebody else will inherit the mess.

JRG
11-01-07, 07:52 PM
He's out the door in 18 months. What the fuck does he care? Somebody else will inherit the mess.

True, I just wish he wouldn't make the mess worse than it is

Hollowman
11-01-07, 09:33 PM
May I ask why you'd expect reinforcements prior to a withdrawal?



You may.

JRG
12-01-07, 10:21 AM
You may.

Then as this my 1000th post you may answer.

Thanking you in advance

Hollowman
12-01-07, 01:22 PM
The withdrawal of a taskforce of that size is the most vulnerable period of any operation. Troops are tied up with the logistical aspects of upping camp and preparing to leave, and enemy forces see it as an opportunity to attack a force that is leaving, i.e. there is no threat of long term reprisals. More soldiers are needed to maintain the standard security operations whilst others are clearing up.

It's different to the first Gulf War where the troops were victorious and were not under any threat whilst pulling out. This army will essentially be withdrawing from a front line of they leave now, which is an incredibly dangerous situation.

Neil Young
12-01-07, 01:25 PM
Ah. So the more troops they want to withdraw the more troops have to go in? Doesn't that mean they can never leave since the extra troops will also make a mess and leave a mess that will have to be cleared up by deploying, wait for it, yet more troops?

Surely the Pentagon must know this.




Oops, on second thoughts, it's the Pentagon, scrub that last remark.

MattBiscan
12-01-07, 03:11 PM
I back it all they way

JRG
13-01-07, 08:55 PM
The withdrawal of a taskforce of that size is the most vulnerable period of any operation. Troops are tied up with the logistical aspects of upping camp and preparing to leave, and enemy forces see it as an opportunity to attack a force that is leaving, i.e. there is no threat of long term reprisals. More soldiers are needed to maintain the standard security operations whilst others are clearing up.

It's different to the first Gulf War where the troops were victorious and were not under any threat whilst pulling out. This army will essentially be withdrawing from a front line of they leave now, which is an incredibly dangerous situation.

It's not as if the forces are making a withdrawal in contact, which is very dangerous and difficult. Plus the Iraqis are supposed to be filling the gaps left by the Coalition. No I believe it's provovative and will lead to an esaclation in violence and hence casulaties. I belive the neocons want the coaltion to stay there, on the baisi a new administration wouyld fuck uyp, clearing a way for a political resurgenec of the right in the US.

I may be overly cynical and indeed simplistic but the military liogic for the "surge" appears to be flawed.

PS as i didn't attend staff college I may be talking a load of bollocks.

Neil Young
13-01-07, 09:10 PM
The Iranians are describing it as a declaration of war on themselves and Syria.

Domestically, the Bush Administration is attempting to paint the Democrats into a corner: oppose the extra troops and it gives the Republicans an opportunity to present the Democrats as, in the short term, soft and, in the long term, (at least partly) responsible for the inevitable failure of the whole sorry 'intervention'; support Bush's strategy, no matter how unenthusiastically, and they become (at least partly) responsible for the inevitable failure of the whole sorry 'intervention'.

It's probably more about US domestic politics than anything else.

marcgerard
13-01-07, 09:56 PM
The 'new' strategy in Iraq is no different from the old. This is a war that Bush still believes he can win, this measure is designed to do it. His removal of Donald Rumsfeld after the mid terms was not an indication of his accepting what is seen as effectively a referendum on the Iraqi strategy, but a means to increase troop numbers without an effective lobbyist such as Rumsfeld campaigning to keep them as low as possible.

The troop numbers are close to what was needed in the first phase of the war, increasing the number of brigades in Baghdad by five, but at least 3 years too late. It has also embedded the troops within a statutory Iraqi framework that most American officials are uncomfortable with due to the increasing sectarian violence. This is what the Americans are left with, remaining bedfellows with an administration many of whom are felt to be complicit in the domestic violence within the country.

In keeping with the hackneyed approach of the Bush administration the policy was announced as a massive troop deployment, rather than the regional diplomacy and aid the policy also entails. These aspects were only given greater prominence in the days after the policy was announced. It seems as if the Administration was taken by surprise just how cold the domestic and international response was.

If the US and UK which to get out of Iraq within the next two years without the country also having lurched into civil war then Syria and Iran need to be much more positively and constructively brokered than they have been so far. This does not look to be happening overtly and relations between the parties make it unlikely to be happening covertly either.


The difficulty for the Bush administration is that the policy needs to show it is working quickly, he (they) are facing a hostile Congress that although unwilling to cull financing of the campaign will do so if the social costs are too high in Iraq and if political capital can be gained as the next Presidential elections draw closer; it was what signalled the end of American policy in Vietnam despite initial unwillingness within Congress to pull the plug.

Bush believes that a perceived defeat in Iraq makes America and the west more vulnerable to asymetrical warfare (terrorism). The difficulty is that rather than leaving a pacified country the best he can hope for is a state in which those undertaking terrorism understand the heavy costs such attacks will lead to. This means the countries it believes are sponsoring terrorism too.

It is true that the transition between its occupancy and the lowering of its presence would lead to it being vulnerable, but this is due to the failure of the campaign in both its first and second phases. If the first phase, the war, had been properly managed then it might not have come to this.


Bush wants history to see his being right in Iraq,but this is unlikely. This new strategic policy is nt going to change a situation that is nearly 4 years in the planning and making enough for him to be so.

Neil Young
13-01-07, 10:27 PM
Yes that makes a lot of sense. Of course it was silly of me just to see it in US domestic terms. No decent politician seeks to achieve only one thing at a time.

It seems to me that rather than it being "in keeping with the hackneyed approach", the tactical reasoning behind announcing it as a troop deployment is more about skewering the Democrats along the lines of the way I said. Bush needs to be able to demonstrate to Republicans in Congress that he is not simply looking at the next 22 months but is attempting to limit the effectiveness of the Democrats' presidential and congressional challenges in 2008 - otherwise they will simply treat him as a lame duck and be preparing their own ground for the next elections without him.

I buy a lot of what you say about the wider and longer term context, aims and strategy.

Hollowman
13-01-07, 10:34 PM
No I believe it's provovative and will lead to an esaclation in violence and hence casulaties. I belive the neocons want the coaltion to stay there, on the baisi a new administration wouyld fuck uyp, clearing a way for a political resurgenec of the right in the US.



Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is the reasoning behind this recent increase in troop numbers, I'm just pointing out that if we were to pull out in the current climate then extra deployments would be required. You'd see a build up of fleet resources in the Gulf in addition to a short, concentrated increase in tasked groundforces.

Neil Young
15-01-07, 12:44 PM
The US is sending a second aircraft carrier to the Gulf and deploying advanced Patriot missiles in pro-American Arab states.

Senator Joe Biden has written to the President asking if he is contemplating cross-border strikes in Syria and Iran.

This doesn't look too like withdrawal to me but then I didn't go to staff college either.

Neil Young
15-01-07, 12:51 PM
From today's Guardian Unlimited:


Next target Tehran

All the signs are that Bush is planning for a neocon-inspired military assault on Iran

Dan Plesch
Monday January 15, 2007
The Guardian

The evidence is building up that President Bush plans to add war on Iran to his triumphs in Iraq and Afghanistan - and there is every sign, to judge by his extraordinary warmongering speech in Plymouth on Friday, that Tony Blair would be keen to join him if he were still in a position to commit British forces to the field.

"There's a strong sense in the upper echelons of the White House that Iran is going to surface relatively quickly as a major issue - in the country and the world - in a very acute way," said NBC TV's Tim Russert after meeting the president. This is borne out by the fact that Bush has sent forces to the Gulf that are irrelevant to fighting the Iraqi insurgents. These include Patriot anti-missile missiles, an aircraft carrier, and cruise-missile-firing ships.

Many military analysts see these deployments as signals of impending war with Iran. The Patriot missiles are intended to shoot down Iranian missiles. The naval forces, including British ships, train to pre-empt Iranian interference with oil shipments through the straits of Hormuz.

Having been given so much advice on what to do in Iraq - most notably by the Baker-Hamilton Iraq Study Group - the president went with the recommendations of the neoconservative American Enterprise Institute (AEI). So much for the idea that the Iraq debacle marginalised the neocons.

The political context as seen from inside the White House and Downing Street is that we are in a war as serious as the second world war. John Bolton exemplified this outlook when he compared US problems in Iraq with the fighting with Japan after Pearl Harbour.

Donald Rumsfeld and the AEI have developed a strategy for regime change in Iran that does not involve a ground invasion. Weapons of mass destruction will provide the rationale for military action, though it won't be limited to attacks on a few weapons factories. It will include limiting Iranian retaliatory capability, using bombers to destroy up to 10,000 targets in the first day of any war, and special forces flying in to destroy anything that's left.

In the aftermath, the US will support regime change, hoping to replace the ayatollahs with an Iran of the regions. The US and British governments now support a coalition of groups seeking a federal Iran. This may be another neocon delusion, but that may not be the point. Making Tehran concentrate on internal problems leaves it unable to act elsewhere.

Bush has said he will destroy the Syrian and Iranian networks in Iraq. These may include Moqtada al-Sadr's militia, but are also likely to target the Iranian-created Badr brigades, now wearing Iraqi police uniforms. In the south, the withdrawal of British troops to Basra airport looks more like a preparation to avoid a Shia backlash than a handover to the government of Iraq.

The US director of national intelligence, John Negroponte, explained that the threat to launch Hizbullah against Israel was the main deterrent to a US attack on Iran. Although politically Hizbullah scored a major victory in holding off the Israeli army last summer, in fact it was badly damaged.

The Iranian regime seems prepared for confrontation, perhaps confident Washington is bluffing. Next month Iran celebrates its completion of the nuclear-fuel cycle, in defiance of UN sanctions. Expect Bush and Blair to ask what the world will do to prevent a new Holocaust against the Jews. In his Plymouth speech, Blair told us that we could not pick and choose our wars. He may have been telling us more than we realised.

link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1990463,00.html)

spud_gun
15-01-07, 01:52 PM
From today's Guardian Unlimited:


Next target Tehran

All the signs are that Bush is planning for a neocon-inspired military assault on Iran

Dan Plesch
Monday January 15, 2007
The Guardian

The evidence is building up that President Bush plans to add war on Iran to his triumphs in Iraq and Afghanistan - and there is every sign, to judge by his extraordinary warmongering speech in Plymouth on Friday, that Tony Blair would be keen to join him if he were still in a position to commit British forces to the field.



I'd hardly describe American's intervention in Iraq or Afghanistan as a 'triumph'

Neil Young
15-01-07, 02:34 PM
I think it was meant ironically.

animal magic
15-01-07, 04:11 PM
how can the british get involved in a war with iran the army is in a mess now not enough troops and crap equipment

Neil Young
15-01-07, 04:21 PM
how can the british get involved in a war with iran the army is in a mess now not enough troops and crap equipment
You want them to have more crap equipment?

Or do you mean they are short of latrines, bog paper, etc?

animal magic
15-01-07, 04:26 PM
You want them to have more crap equipment?

Or do you mean they are short of latrines, bog paper, etc?

no i meant if they can not afford to equip the army properly now how can we be involved in iran


leaves smart conversation for good

Neil Young
15-01-07, 04:32 PM
Sorry animal, don't be put off posting by my unhelpful smartarsery. I think I'm coming down with a cold and I'm hoping that underpins my stupid behaviour today.

brikkis
15-01-07, 04:33 PM
Sorry animal, don't be put off posting by my unhelpful smartarsery. I think I'm coming down with a cold and I'm hoping that underpins my stupid behaviour today.

Oh aye, blame the flu :crackoff:

Neil Young
15-01-07, 04:38 PM
:D

I haven't got flu, it's just a bit of a cold. There's a lot of it about.

Of course, if you're implying that today's smartarsiosity is at my normal level then I'm rather embarrassed and ashamed.

brikkis
15-01-07, 04:52 PM
Of course, if you're implying that today's smartarsiosity is at my normal level then I'm rather embarrassed and ashamed.

Not at all :handshake: Just trying to be funny

Neil Young
15-01-07, 05:00 PM
Not at all :handshake: Just trying to be funny
I know. You succeeded. It was. I laughed. :handshake:

animal magic
15-01-07, 07:51 PM
Sorry animal, don't be put off posting by my unhelpful smartarsery. I think I'm coming down with a cold and I'm hoping that underpins my stupid behaviour today.

its okay dont worry

The Glove
15-01-07, 11:20 PM
America doesnt have the Army for Iran, its too big for them to attack right now.

CharlieMansonsSquint
15-01-07, 11:28 PM
America doesnt have the Army for Iran, its too big for them to attack right now.

Yeah they are too busy "accidentally" shooting our lads instead.

The Glove
15-01-07, 11:34 PM
I think they have 8 battle groups overall. There are 2 already in the Gulf. 2 are for the Pacific, 2 for the Atlantic/Northern Europe and there are generally 2 always in for repair and spread across America. Given they cant control Iraq and Iran is about 3 times as big with an Army that hasnt been starved of technology like Iraq, they'd have to be very dosy to think Iranwould be dead easy to fuck over.

marcgerard
15-01-07, 11:51 PM
The British will not go into Iran, logistically there is nt the capacity to do it and there is nt the will either. Blair is nt in a position to commit to any long term policy without Brown giving at least tacit approval.


The US is using alot of Israeli intelligence on Iran which suggests that it is capable of producing weapon grade uranium some time in the next 18 months and that it has secret plutonium enrichment going on too. It is unlikely that Iran has got this far considering the amount of centrifuges to get the kind of purity needed but the fear still exists.

The US would not wish to go into Iran that is true but given the level of concern the Iranian nuclear development is giving Washington there is a belief by some that attacking Iran early is an option.The use of Israeli intelligence is telling because much of the intelligence for WMD in Iraq was compiled there too. But there is a sense that the US feel that they could do it, given the right political and diplomatic circumstances to go in that is. This situation is over a year away and the US will see no harm in increasing the pressure on Iran given that is is not being actively opposed in the Security Council, if not supported either.

I do think however that Iran is tied to current Irqi policy and some of what has been said and done over the last week or so is trying to scare Iran into opening itself to inspection and to stop funding insurgency in Iraq, both of which the US needs to occur in the short to medium term.

Nicey
16-01-07, 02:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTvD4CoGw4w

redheart
16-01-07, 12:53 PM
As someone said on TV the other day....

There is one way to unite Iraq and to end the violence....

Repeatedly and endlessly play "I got you babe" on loud speakers at all times so that everyone in Iraq hears it at all times

This will surely lead to a reconcilliation between Sunny and Shia:p :respect: :finger:

Nicey
16-01-07, 02:11 PM
As someone said on TV the other day....

There is one way to unite Iraq and to end the violence....

Repeatedly and endlessly play "I got you babe" on loud speakers at all times so that everyone in Iraq hears it at all times

This will surely lead to a reconcilliation between Sunny and Shia:p :respect: :finger:

Stands a better chance then most of the tripe that’s coming out of the Ranch in Crawford Texas . America is on a massive Oil Grab in the Middle east to keep the raging economic beast that is China in check. China needs Oil, America will soon control most of it, China could cripple the US economy by simply dumping US Dollars, America can Cripple the Chinese Economy by switching off the oil pump. Stale mate for now.

Iran is going down or at best has a shit load of trouble coming its way, regardless of what it does or says.
:handshake: