Record points total

[WILF]

I think that Chelsea will get between 95-100 pts this season
They have an excellent keeper in Cech
A very good defence with Terry, Gallas, probably A.Cole
In midfield Makalele is immense,Lampturd does what Jose wants,score goals, and Ballack although possibly disruptive off the pitch is a superb player on it.
Up front, Drogba is effective, Sheva and Crespo are class

They have won 2 Prem titles on the bounce and so are confident and feared, many teams will beat themselves against Chelsea, same as against us and Manure at different points in the past.

Maureen is a limited manager but organises them well and motivates them

So as we are due to win no 19 :D it means we are going to record a record pts
total for ourselves and the Prem.

We have a much better manager and the best squad for many years, look at our improvement last year, I am looking forward to our best ever season:lfc:

[El Jefecito]

I'm hoping that Chelsea will be transitioning to 442 this year. It'll take time for them to adapt, and I believe that Mourinho will struggle with the nuances.

Here's hoping anyway :)

[univofchicago]

I'm hoping that Chelsea will be transitioning to 442 this year. It'll take time for them to adapt, and I believe that Mourinho will struggle with the nuances.


Thats exactly what I was thinking. Ballack and Shevchenko are quality additions, but I really do feel that the departures of Duff, Gudjohnsen and Crespo (hopefully) is going to take the balance out of their side (at least temporarily).

I think Shevchenko will fit in very well, but I've got doubts about Ballack. Not that I doubt he is a good player. But I just think that his style of play won't be suited to the physical nature of Chelsea's game. Ballack likes to stay around the centre-circle area and distribute long or short balls left and right. He does it very well but just seem a bit stagnant at times. I've also noticed that he struggles a bit when the game turns physical and there isn't much space for him to work the ball.

I reckon Mourinho will start with Makelele-Lampard-Ballack as his three CM at the start of the season. But I also expect Ballack to find it hard to adapt for the very reasons stated above. That is why I am hopeful Mourinho will struggle a bit to find the right formula.

[dww]

I fully expect Mourinho to start with the same 4-1-2-2-1 type formation he has used since he came. I would expect the starting midfield to be as you say and they are lucky as their first two games are Man City and Middlesborough who are not overtly physical sides. I can see Essien comin back into the team for Blackburn though.

I don't see how they will loose balance due to Duff going as he was out a lot last season and was rarely in good form. I thought they struggled to get Gudjohnsen to fit into their formation (hence his playing in midfield) so I doubt that will be disruptive either.

I would guess that the biggest problem they would face is bringing in so many players all at once, as all their signings this season demand a first team place. Previously Mourinho has been able to merely tinker with the team he had, with a lot of the assimilation of new players already done for him by Ranieri. Still I think he is a great manager and they will be at least as good in the league this year and almost certainly better in europe than last year.

[univofchicago]

I don't see how they will loose balance due to Duff going as he was out a lot last season and was rarely in good form. I thought they struggled to get Gudjohnsen to fit into their formation (hence his playing in midfield) so I doubt that will be disruptive either.



Yeah, perhaps. Thinking about it again, it is the addition of Ballack that really fuels my optimism that Chelsea is going to need some time to find that balance.

I think Mourinho's decision to let Duff go is significant with respect to the balance in the side because it implies that Mourinho may be more inclined to use other formations (2 up front or 2 in the middle) rather than the much proven 4-1-2-2-1. If Mourinho had decided to stick with the usual formation, I doubt that he would have let Duff go because they need four quality wingers to make it work on a consistent basis. Duff's departure means that Mourinho has concrete plans to use alternate formations which may mean sacrificing one of the wingers for a centre forward; the need to have four wingers becomes not as important.

This is just my hope. Like you, I think Mourinho will do a good job of finding that balance but I've tried to think of a silver lining in their summer transfer activities.

[Morse]

I think that Chelsea will get between 95-100 pts this season
They have an excellent keeper in Cech
A very good defence with Terry, Gallas, probably A.Cole
In midfield Makalele is immense,Lampturd does what Jose wants,score goals, and Ballack although possibly disruptive off the pitch is a superb player on it.
Up front, Drogba is effective, Sheva and Crespo are class

They have won 2 Prem titles on the bounce and so are confident and feared, many teams will beat themselves against Chelsea, same as against us and Manure at different points in the past.

Maureen is a limited manager but organises them well and motivates them

So as we are due to win no 19 :D it means we are going to record a record pts
total for ourselves and the Prem.

We have a much better manager and the best squad for many years, look at our improvement last year, I am looking forward to our best ever season:lfc:


They will concentrate on Europe this season, and they are also going 442 as well...we will close the gap Wilf.

[dww]

Yeah, perhaps. Thinking about it again, it is the addition of Ballack that really fuels my optimism that Chelsea is going to need some time to find that balance.

I think Mourinho's decision to let Duff go is significant with respect to the balance in the side because it implies that Mourinho may be more inclined to use other formations (2 up front or 2 in the middle) rather than the much proven 4-1-2-2-1. If Mourinho had decided to stick with the usual formation, I doubt that he would have let Duff go because they need four quality wingers to make it work on a consistent basis. Duff's departure means that Mourinho has concrete plans to use alternate formations which may mean sacrificing one of the wingers for a centre forward; the need to have four wingers becomes not as important.

This is just my hope. Like you, I think Mourinho will do a good job of finding that balance but I've tried to think of a silver lining in their summer transfer activities.

The thing is that last year the most effective player in the positions you wuld expect to find a winger was Joe Cole. He isn't a winger really and I think that considering this Cole, Robben, SWP and Kalou could be seen as the four players in question.

Sadly I think this means that Jose has the option of starting with very conservative changes and slowly introducing 4-4-2 when necissary as he did at the end of last season.

I have to say that I have a perverse optimism that as Chelsea did as well as they did last year there is little room for improvement in terms of points even if they improve their play. We on the other hand have intoduced potential solutions to many of the problems we had last year. I defenitely think we will be closer to them. Beating them is another matter.

[Red_Polo]

Their time is up

1st Liverpool 92
2nd Chelsea 89
3rd Man Utd 88

[Le Chacal]

Mourinho is one of the best managers in Europe. To say he's limited is absurd...I dont think we can reach the 90 points mark...

[univofchicago]

Beating them is another matter.

I think that is the key. Just losing those 2 league games to Chelsea meant a 12 point spread. Other differences (i.e games against other clubs), if any, were marginal.

[dww]

I would say Mourinho is in the top two or three managers in the world. However I would say he is limited as considering how much money he has had to spend his purchases have been less than inspired.

Nearly all the best signings since Abramovich took over Chelsea were made by Ranieri.

[univofchicago]

Mourinho is one of the best managers in Europe. To say he's limited is absurd...I dont think we can reach the 90 points mark...

I think Mourinho is a great coach but not necessarily a great manager. One big difference between English managers and continental coaches is that managers here have more of a say (most of the times absolute) in who they decide to bring in. Besides Drogba and Carvarlho, there isn't a player (in my opinion) that has been at least moderately successful. The 'new' successful players that have been brought in during the Ambramovich era are mainly players that he had inherited (Terry, Gallas, Lampard) or brought in by Ranieri (Robben, Cole J, Duff, Makelele, Cech).

Also, I do think we can reach the 90 points mark :D

[univofchicago]

I would say Mourinho is in the top two or three managers in the world. However I would say he is limited as considering how much money he has had to spend his purchases have been less than inspired.

Nearly all the best signings since Abramovich took over Chelsea were made by Ranieri.


Yeap. You beat me to it!

[dww]

Good to know someone agrees with me.

[univofchicago]

Their time is up

1st Liverpool 92
2nd Chelsea 89
3rd Man Utd 88

I prefer a bit of cushion at the top, so that we can concentrate on the Champions League Final and also give the young boys a run out.

1st Liverpool 98
2nd Chelsea 89
3rd Man.United 81
4th Arsenal 77

How about that?

[Le Chacal]

Yeap. You beat me to it!

Absolutely, the difference is Mourinho won the title with these players and would have won the CL in 2004 with that Chelski team.

And who won the CL that year?

Answer: Porto with a certain manager called Jose who?

[univofchicago]

Absolutely, the difference is Mourinho won the title with these players and would have won the CL in 2004 with that Chelski team.

And who won the CL that year?

Answer: Porto with a certain manager called Jose who?

Yes. Jose Mourinho won the CL with Porto. But that is my point. With FC Porto and a lot of the continental sides, coaches have less control over who they can bring in. Mourinho did a great job of assembling a side that was hard to break down and score goals against. And a lot of the credit must go to Mourinho and his tactical nous. That is why I think he is a great coach. But in the case of FC Porto, most of the credit for transfers will go to the general manager. I am sure Mourinho had some influence, but Mourinho was a relative newbie then and unless you happen to be Fabio Capello or the current Jose Mourinho, you have very little control of the club's transfer dealings.

[Le Chacal]

The competences are not the same but still the coach has the final word...

[FowlerLeftFoot]

moaninho is a tit

[Le Chacal]

moaninho is a tit
talk about football.
thank you

[El Jefecito]

Thats exactly what I was thinking. Ballack and Shevchenko are quality additions, but I really do feel that the departures of Duff, Gudjohnsen and Crespo (hopefully) is going to take the balance out of their side (at least temporarily).

I think Shevchenko will fit in very well, but I've got doubts about Ballack. Not that I doubt he is a good player. But I just think that his style of play won't be suited to the physical nature of Chelsea's game. Ballack likes to stay around the centre-circle area and distribute long or short balls left and right. He does it very well but just seem a bit stagnant at times. I've also noticed that he struggles a bit when the game turns physical and there isn't much space for him to work the ball.

I reckon Mourinho will start with Makelele-Lampard-Ballack as his three CM at the start of the season. But I also expect Ballack to find it hard to adapt for the very reasons stated above. That is why I am hopeful Mourinho will struggle a bit to find the right formula.

I've a slightly different view on Chelseas ability to transition. Which I think they will need to do. Ballack like you say likes to spray it around but he gets forward a LOT. Paired with Lampard makes me think that they need the midfield three as Lampard has proved beyond all doubt that he cannot play without a holding midfielder. Hence why 41221 has been the preferred tactic.

Now the rub Schevchenko is no Drogba, he cannot play as the lone striker, he needs to play alongside someone. Run off of them etc. This would suggest 442.

Reconciling the two is going to be really difficult because the problem cannot be solved on the whiteboard and then explained to the players in terms of fixed roles on the field. It's going to require game intelligence on the part of the players as they are going to need to adapt how they are playing through the course of the game.

To be honest I don't think Mourinho or most of the chelsea players have the smarts for that. Do you?

[El Jefecito]

I would say Mourinho is in the top two or three managers in the world. However I would say he is limited as considering how much money he has had to spend his purchases have been less than inspired.

Nearly all the best signings since Abramovich took over Chelsea were made by Ranieri.
He is very very limited in the tactical sense. How often was he able to change tactics (not players) to impact a game. Never. Compare this to Rafa. Different class.

He may be a great leader, motivator etc. But as a tactician he's limited.

[dww]

I think Mourinho has shown himself more than adept at changing the game. I admit his first thought seems to be to alter perssonel but he has often made subtle changes to his formation in a match to alter it.

My memory is terrible for details but in several games last season when teams played a man marker on Makellele he dropped Essien deeper aswell to make the midfield formation closer to what we play with Xabi and Momo. He also alters the way he uses his fullbacks a lot. I agree that Rafa is a better at tactics but I think you underestimate Mourinho.

[Red_Polo]

I think Mourinho is great at fostering a winning mentality and organising his team, getting them all used to a certain pattern of play. But when it comes to changing things in games the only thing he tends to do is throw on expensive like for like replacements (which often works but is something any manager could do if they had the money to have that standard of player on the bench). Other than that he really really struggles to think how to change things. Throw on Huth or Crespo to go with Drogba, play three wingers at once, he's tried these things a few times but the only thing that has ever really worked for him is putting his expensive like for like subs on - i.e. not changing the game but just hoping the fresh legs will win it for him.

[univofchicago]

He is very very limited in the tactical sense. How often was he able to change tactics (not players) to impact a game. Never. Compare this to Rafa. Different class.

He may be a great leader, motivator etc. But as a tactician he's limited.

Initially, I thought he was a great tactician. The way he set up that Chelsea side early in the 2004/05 season made me believe that this guy was a tactical genius. But some glaring mistakes recently (FA Cup semi-final etc) and, as you said, his inability to change tactics to impact a game has raised some doubts. But I still believe that he is a very good tactician. Next season will really be a real test of how good a tactician he is especially with all the new players coming in.

I also agree with you that Rafa is in a different class, but I have to side with dww that you underestimate Moaninho's abilities as a tactician a little bit...

[Red_Polo]

I prefer a bit of cushion at the top, so that we can concentrate on the Champions League Final and also give the young boys a run out.

1st Liverpool 98
2nd Chelsea 89
3rd Man.United 81
4th Arsenal 77

How about that?

Looks good :D

Seriously though, this season's title race is going to be really tough but I honestly believe we're going to do it. If we get Kuyt then I'll be putting a fair few bob on us coming out on top of the pile.

[univofchicago]

I've a slightly different view on Chelseas ability to transition. Which I think they will need to do. Ballack like you say likes to spray it around but he gets forward a LOT. Paired with Lampard makes me think that they need the midfield three as Lampard has proved beyond all doubt that he cannot play without a holding midfielder. Hence why 41221 has been the preferred tactic.

Now the rub Schevchenko is no Drogba, he cannot play as the lone striker, he needs to play alongside someone. Run off of them etc. This would suggest 442.

I think that was what I was implying but you've explained it better. I said that Mourinho can play two up front, or two in midfield as an alternative. If he ditches his usual 4-1-2-2-1 formation, then he will go for the formation that you have just explained. That will be 4-1-2-1-2. Makelele as the holding player with Ballack and Lampard pushing forward. Robben given a free role with Drogba alongside Shevchenko up front. The alternative would be to drop one of the centre-midfielders for a winger (Joe Cole) but what you just explained sounds the more likely.



Reconciling the two is going to be really difficult because the problem cannot be solved on the whiteboard and then explained to the players in terms of fixed roles on the field. It's going to require game intelligence on the part of the players as they are going to need to adapt how they are playing through the course of the game.

To be honest I don't think Mourinho or most of the chelsea players have the smarts for that. Do you?



That is a really difficult question. I don't really know. But as I said before, I've been trying to think of a silver lining and that is I hope that his players take an awful lot of time in adapting to the new formation should Mourinho decide to makes changes...

[univofchicago]

Throw on Huth or Crespo to go with Drogba, play three wingers at once, he's tried these things a few times but the only thing that has ever really worked for him is putting his expensive like for like subs on - i.e. not changing the game but just hoping the fresh legs will win it for him.

Yes, he made some bizarre decisions last year, that FA Cup semi-final was the tip of the iceberg. Long may it continue!

[El Jefecito]

I think Mourinho has shown himself more than adept at changing the game. I admit his first thought seems to be to alter perssonel but he has often made subtle changes to his formation in a match to alter it.

My memory is terrible for details but in several games last season when teams played a man marker on Makellele he dropped Essien deeper aswell to make the midfield formation closer to what we play with Xabi and Momo. He also alters the way he uses his fullbacks a lot. I agree that Rafa is a better at tactics but I think you underestimate Mourinho.
I agree with what you are saying, I think that maybe I'm using tactics in a much broader sense. For example, Mourinho doesn't coach his teams so that they could go 352 during the CL final. He can tweak but the overall formation stays largely the same.

In the games I've seen the only real formation changes have been to 424 at the end of a game they are changing. Seems very hamfisted comapred to Rafa.

The fact that he is so tied to 41221 also to me re-inforces that he is not as sophisticated as your typical contintental coach.

[univofchicago]

I agree with what you are saying, I think that maybe I'm using tactics in a much broader sense. For example, Mourinho doesn't coach his teams so that they could go 352 during the CL final. He can tweak but the overall formation stays largely the same.

In the games I've seen the only real formation changes have been to 424 at the end of a game they are changing. Seems very hamfisted comapred to Rafa.

The fact that he is so tied to 41221 also to me re-inforces that he is not as sophisticated as your typical contintental coach.

Ok, I understand. One big reason why the overall formation has stayed largely the same is that the original one has proved to be so successful (especially in the League). He has tweaked it at times but because that original setup was so successful, a lot of the tinkering has been perceived as failures.

I think we will see how good a tactician Mourinho really is next season when he will have to change the formation. First of all, as we discussed, because of the arrival of Shevchenko. And secondly because of the Champions League. As much as the setup been a success in the League, it has not proved to be as effective in the Champions League. The Champions League will be the absolute priority this year for Mourinho which is why I believe we can expect to see major changes in their team setup.

[G_Man]

1st: Liverpool
2nd : SCUM
3rd : Chavs

:handshake:

[Parm]

you are right mate, it'll take a huge amount of points to win the title this year. If we finish above the Chavs then we will be champions.It wont be easy but it's not impossible.

[disco]

There's a chance that Chavchenko and Bollox won't adopt to the premiership. There's also a chance that some big name players won't like sitting on the bench.

In which case they might only get 80-odd points :D

We can only hope....

[disco]

PS Actually, if we can get a few points off the other top 4 teams and basically win/draw most of the rest, we'll be there or there abouts.

I believe had we beaten Chavski home and away and won at least one of the Man U games we'd have won the league last season....

[univofchicago]

I believe had we beaten Chavski home and away and won at least one of the Man U games we'd have won the league last season....

Yes, you are right. Those two Chelsea games in itself accounted for a 12 point spread!

So to win the title 1)we need to maintain that consistency of last season 2) start the season well 3) do better against the top teams

Won't be easy....but very possible.

[El Jefecito]

Yes, you are right. Those two Chelsea games in itself accounted for a 12 point spread!

So to win the title 1)we need to maintain that consistency of last season 2) start the season well 3) do better against the top teams

Won't be easy....but very possible.
#1 will be the hardest of those three. We went a few unbelievable runs last year. We had a fair bit of luck last year, maybe the improvement in the squad (and also particularly in the goal scoring stakes) will make up for it.

[SouthAfricaRed]

I think, Hope that the rest of the EPL will play against Chelski hoping to win. Too many sides play against them hoping for a Draw or even worse containing the scoreline. The teams that have gone for them like Boro, Fulham, Liverpool and Manure have shown that they are far from unbeatable.

I think the Title race will be a lot closer this season. We have two very important games quite early on - Chelski(away) and Manure (away). If we can take pts off those two teams, it will put pressure on them and I'm convinced they will crumble if that happens. Chelski have too many egos in their side with Jose being the worst. A bit of pressure and bad Results and the Blame game will start. Fwank has already started by blaming Sven for not picking Defoe :haha:

[FowlerLeftFoot]

We will win the league this season
We will win the league this season
We will win the league this season

if we dont, i will eat this thread.

[armitage]

Mourinho is a very good coach, but lets face it, we can all win the league when we'rer playing championship manager.

I reckon our start is crucial. If we can nose in front he'll be personally all latinately upset (which will manifest itself in accusations of favouritism, blah, blah) which is his major personality flaw IMO. If we keep ahead it will all get worse. So, I suppose my blue print for success is keep ahead of Chelsea - not rocket science but what I'm saying is if we slip behind for than a few points we've had it.

But that won't happen cos we're going to win the league!

[Ryan]

I think that Chelsea will get between 95-100 pts this season
They have an excellent keeper in Cech
A very good defence with Terry, Gallas, probably A.Cole
In midfield Makalele is immense,Lampturd does what Jose wants,score goals, and Ballack although possibly disruptive off the pitch is a superb player on it.
Up front, Drogba is effective, Sheva and Crespo are class

They have won 2 Prem titles on the bounce and so are confident and feared, many teams will beat themselves against Chelsea, same as against us and Manure at different points in the past.

Maureen is a limited manager but organises them well and motivates them

So as we are due to win no 19 :D it means we are going to record a record pts
total for ourselves and the Prem.

We have a much better manager and the best squad for many years, look at our improvement last year, I am looking forward to our best ever season:lfc:

No he isn't.

You don't accomplish what he has in the game with Porto and Chelsea by being "limited"...

[Peter Delvechio]

I think Chelsea will have their worst season under Mourinho.

I have no idea why I think that.

But I do.

[MrMichael]

No he isn't.

You don't accomplish what he has in the game with Porto and Chelsea by being "limited"...

True. Although the achievements with Chelsea can be clouded by the amount he has spent, his achievements with Porto do indeed demonstrate he is not what I would describe as a "limited" manager. The problem with Mourinho is the way he acts, I dare say most fans would despise him just for being Chelsea manager, but the fact that he acts like a complete tool all the time just reinforces this natural low opinion of him. :D

I'm not so sure there will be such a high points total wins it this year. Chelsea seemed to be losing some of their fear factor towards the end of last season, it is crucial I feel that one or two of the lesser clubs in the league give them a real run for their money in games early on in the season. At the same time last year many clubs seemed to have given up before the game even started. With Arsenal, ManU and us all being quite strong I can see us all taking points off each other, and think the league will be won with less than 90 points next year

Liverpool 89
Chelsea 87
Arsenal 82
ManU 78

:rock:

[stevenage_kop]

looking at last season where we lost home and away to chelsea and only won 1 of our first 6 games we were close. this season if we come out firing on all cylinders and can get a win at anfield its going to be a close run title.

i was speaking to some chelsea fans the other day and the only team they are worried about are us. they believe we will run the title challenge right til the end with them

[Rich]

Mourinho is an excellent manager - one of the best in the business. It's not his 'fault' that he has a budget to work with that's greater than the GDP of a small African nation.

[Ryan]

The fact that they're putting all their (expensive) eggs in the Champions League basket this season, will almost certainaly hinder their League form to some extent, thus opening the door for us yet further to make a real challenge.

[stevenage_kop]

then they will draw barca again and get knocked out again.........hehehe

[Rich]

I still can't see how a team containing:

Lampard - Ballack - Makelele - Essien

can win a game! :D

[Ryan]

I still can't see how a team containing:

Lampard - Ballack - Makelele - Essien

can win a game! :D

No Robben or Cole?

It's gonna be difficult to accomodate all of them, and maintain their enthusiasm. Personally, I feel over time he's gonna try and move Essien into Makelele's position.

[univofchicago]

then they will draw barca again and get knocked out again.........hehehe

Hopefully the Champions League will become a real energy sapping distraction...I'll let them reach the Semi-Finals, and then leave it to Barcelona to do the hard work again... hehehehe

[Rich]

Makelele is the best in the business at what he does - he's one of the reasons why Lampard performs for Chelsea and not for England. From what I've seen of Essien, I don't think he has the capacity to replicate Makelele's game.

I think Mourinho's first choice midfield has three certain starters in Makelele, Lampard and Ballack - I don't know who the fourth player will be, but if it is Essien, I can't see where the width comes from in the team. (Unless Ashley Cole signs!)

[univofchicago]

I think Mourinho's first choice midfield has three certain starters in Makelele, Lampard and Ballack - I don't know who the fourth player will be, but if it is Essien, I can't see where the width comes from in the team. (Unless Ashley Cole signs!)

I've discussed in this thread why Chelsea will start with three CM. I reckon the fourth player will be one of their wingers (Robben, Cole, Wright-Phillips) but Mourinho has shown the propensity to play all four centre-midfielders at once which is good news for us :D. Let's hope that Mourinho does not learn from his mistakes and continue to play all four CM at once...