View Full Version : Selling Crouch?
Peter Delvechio
04-08-06, 06:25 AM
Will there ever be a better time?
He's clearly quite limited as a striker, I think we can all agree on that. He's somehow found his way into the England team and is maybe, just maybe, marketable at more than the 7m we paid for him.
We have some cash available for a striker already (maybe 10/11m?).
Would you consider selling Crouch for 7/8m?
We could then have enough to buy two strikers who can hold the ball up, retain possession, involve team mates in the attack AND SCORE GOALS.
Would you sell Crouch if it meant we could sign....say...for example...Kuyt and Ashton, or Bent and Ashton or Bent and Kuyt....? (well you get the idea)
I would.
fatistuta
04-08-06, 06:31 AM
There is no fucking way I would consider selling Crouchy now unless a bid of £15m + came in and I don't think Rafa would either.
Crouchy is our most improvd player and is developing at an amazing rate.
He will prove Rafa right.
:rock:
Peter Delvechio
04-08-06, 06:43 AM
What if he already has proven Rafa right?
What if Rafa expected him to be good at certain things and bad at others?
What if Rafa has always seen Crouch as a pricey stop-gap?
What if Rafa identified a player who had Crouch's strengths AND could score 15+ goals a season? I think he'd sell Crouch in a heartbeat.
Howard_lfc
04-08-06, 07:21 AM
There is no fucking way I would consider selling Crouchy now unless a bid of £15m + came in and I don't think Rafa would either.
Crouchy is our most improvd player and is developing at an amazing rate.
He will prove Rafa right.
:rock:
Hmmmmm...I'm not so sure.
Crouch needs to improve by about 10-20% this season IMO.
Having said that - he looked excellent when he came on against Zurich - full of confidence.
H
PS £15m is one helluva lot of dosh !!
Peter Delvechio
04-08-06, 07:25 AM
Yes, well... he definitely needs to improve - I expect rafa has told him as much.
And 15m is way, way, way, way, way off - unless one of the other top clubs completely loses its senses.
We could (if we were lucky and if we sold now) sell to a Middlesborough, a West Ham, a Man City...(y'know one of the silly clubs) - for 7 or 8m.
FowlerLeftFoot
04-08-06, 07:48 AM
I think Crouch had proved to people that he is useful enough to remain in Liverpool. He has got a great touch and his size will cause other defences a hell lot of problems. He might not be the most prolific striker ever, he probably never will be, but you cant find many better target men in football right now.
armitage
04-08-06, 08:13 AM
He's deffo a stop gap signing (remember Rafa saying he was not the best) but he did ok last season. If someone came in with a good offer he'd bite their hand off I reckon. I'd be happy for him to stay and I'm sure he would too, but he's such a journeyman I expect he'd not be arsed about moving on. Maybe he'll develop into a top class striker this season - that would be smart.
I wouldn't sell him unless we got on offer that we couldn't refuse.
No matter what anyone says (or calls him - 'lurch' tsk tsk tsk) he contributed to our improvement last season. He gives us something different and is suited to the English game. Not to mention most defenders just don't know how to deal with him and can also prove useful in Europe as most continental defenders wouldn't of had to deal with someone like him before.
Contrary to what some people say he does still score his share of headers and is more then useful with the ball at his feet.
He may 'look' akward and average but what he CONTRIBUTES is valuable.
Will there ever be a better time?
He's clearly quite limited as a striker, I think we can all agree on that. He's somehow found his way into the England team and is maybe, just maybe, marketable at more than the 7m we paid for him.
We have some cash available for a striker already (maybe 10/11m?).
Would you consider selling Crouch for 7/8m?
We could then have enough to buy two strikers who can hold the ball up, retain possession, involve team mates in the attack AND SCORE GOALS.
Would you sell Crouch if it meant we could sign....say...for example...Kuyt and Ashton, or Bent and Ashton or Bent and Kuyt....? (well you get the idea)
I would.
FLMAO
armitage
04-08-06, 08:41 AM
on headers, I wish he'd work a bit more. Ok, he gets a few but the ratio of goals to header chances is poor. Maybe his instructions are to head the ball down for others - and maybe will Bellamy this will be a bit more fruitful. oh, Im getting all excited now!
Will there ever be a better time?
He's clearly quite limited as a striker, I think we can all agree on that. He's somehow found his way into the England team and is maybe, just maybe, marketable at more than the 7m we paid for him.
We have some cash available for a striker already (maybe 10/11m?).
Would you consider selling Crouch for 7/8m?
We could then have enough to buy two strikers who can hold the ball up, retain possession, involve team mates in the attack AND SCORE GOALS.
Would you sell Crouch if it meant we could sign....say...for example...Kuyt and Ashton, or Bent and Ashton or Bent and Kuyt....? (well you get the idea)
I would.
I think you and I are going to get on quite well Peter.
I'd happily watch Crouch being sold. Only problem is; Who the fcuk would buy him, and would we get close to a return on the bloated £7M we blew on him?
paulcooper4
04-08-06, 09:02 AM
Will there ever be a better time?
He's clearly quite limited as a striker, I think we can all agree on that. He's somehow found his way into the England team and is maybe, just maybe, marketable at more than the 7m we paid for him.
We have some cash available for a striker already (maybe 10/11m?).
Would you consider selling Crouch for 7/8m?
We could then have enough to buy two strikers who can hold the ball up, retain possession, involve team mates in the attack AND SCORE GOALS.
Would you sell Crouch if it meant we could sign....say...for example...Kuyt and Ashton, or Bent and Ashton or Bent and Kuyt....? (well you get the idea)
I would.
Rafa made it clear when he signed crouch that he was not signing him as a goalscorer. He signed him to hold the ball up for the midfielders to get into the box, especially away from home. He never planned to use him as much at home but it has been necessary due to crap form of others i.e. cisse and morientes. Also due to how well crouchy was playing. The main reason he bought him for, he has been exlempary, our away form was transformed overnight, and rafa has made it clear that crouch is the main reason for this. However, he would like another striker as well as crouchy to mix it up at home. And if you think bent or ashton are anywhere near as good as crouchy then I dont know what game youve been watching, because it certainly hasnt been football.
It never fails to amaze me how good some people think Crouch is?
Are we watching the same goofy, lumering, impotent oaf here or wha?
Neuklon
04-08-06, 09:18 AM
It never fails to amaze me how good some people think Crouch is?
Are we watching the same goofy, lumering, impotent oaf here or wha?
Not as good as some believe but not as bad as others claim - but he is/was integral to Rafa's system as we required somebody to hold the ball up.
Not as good as some believe but not as bad as others claim - but he is/was integral to Rafa's system as we required somebody to hold the ball up.
He concedes more possession than Luis Garcia. That is a fact.
It never fails to amaze me how good some people think Crouch is?
Are we watching the same goofy, lumering, impotent oaf here or wha?
It never fails to amaze me how some people get stuck with an opinion on a player (most often a negative view) and no matter what the player does they still will never ever see the good things he does.
I didn't want us to sign Crouch, I didn't rate him at all. But he proved me wrong and I will happily admit it.
Watching him run and kick makes my toes curl.
He's an eyesore.
anfieldanfield
04-08-06, 09:29 AM
He concedes more possession than Luis Garcia. That is a fact.
Highly doubt it.
Highly doubt it.
The stats prove it.
anfieldanfield
04-08-06, 09:32 AM
The stats prove it.
Reveal...
brendan
04-08-06, 09:32 AM
I'd sell him yesterday.
He's possibly the worst striker I've ever seen play for Liverpool Football Club (and no, I don't count the likes of Sean Dundee or Erik Meijer). Although Morientes is close.
Yes, he has a "GTFABM", and is useful at holding the ball up high up the pitch, but I expect a little more from a Liverpool striker.
Just think about the fabulous, gifted, exciting forward players we've had over recent years: Fowler, Aldridge, Rush, Collymore, Barnes, Beardsley, Owen. Yes, we've been spoilt, but even Emile Heskey had one fabulous season.
Rodders is slower than a fucking glacier, is shit in the air, has zero aggression, and is a very poor finisher.
It makes me a bit sad that he plays for Liverpool, because he wouldn't get close to a game for any of our peers.
I would still keep him if we don't get another striker in, but if Kuyt (or similar) arrives, he should be gone sooner rather than later.
Reveal...
Ross has them somewhere, I'll get him to fish them out.
In fact, it's he who churns that line out all the time. I was quite surprised by it at first, but stats don't lie...
Although Heskey's career has nosedived - I reckon he was a much better player than crouch. Stronger, quicker, miles better in the air, could hold up just as well, could strike it well with both feet.
Although I'm willing to support Crouch and hope he succeeds when you compare to Heskey and realise he is worse it is a bit of a worry. Providing we bring in the 4th striker we want(needs to be big, strong and capable of heading the ball) I'm quite happy for Crouch to stay and be the 4th option.
But, if crouch is the main striker leading the line we will struggle
Will there ever be a better time?
He's clearly quite limited as a striker, I think we can all agree on that. He's somehow found his way into the England team and is maybe, just maybe, marketable at more than the 7m we paid for him.
We have some cash available for a striker already (maybe 10/11m?).
Would you consider selling Crouch for 7/8m?
We could then have enough to buy two strikers who can hold the ball up, retain possession, involve team mates in the attack AND SCORE GOALS.
Would you sell Crouch if it meant we could sign....say...for example...Kuyt and Ashton, or Bent and Ashton or Bent and Kuyt....? (well you get the idea)
I would.
if we sell crouch for 7/8 how the hell can we afford £25million for any 2 of the 3 strikers named above.
Cant think of anyone who would cost around the same as crouch who he could be replaced by??
Think it would send the wrong signals out tothe players as well and goes against Rafa's team spirit as well
TheStig
04-08-06, 09:58 AM
Ross has them somewhere, I'll get him to fish them out.
In fact, it's he who churns that line out all the time. I was quite surprised by it at first, but stats don't lie...
You can use stats to prove anything almost.
You can use stats to prove anything almost.
Yes, thing like, Crouch giving the ball away more often over the course of a season n stuff.
Peter Delvechio
04-08-06, 10:01 AM
My concern is simply that Crouch may have had his best ever season last season. This may be as good as he'll ever get.
I just don't see him suddenly getting quicker, better at heading the ball, more aggressive and more ruthless in front of goal. Last season he surely had all the motivation he needed (WC year, chance to prove his knockers wrong, chance at England's most successful club) and he was surrounded by the most talented group of midfielders he's ever likely to play with - and yet, the jury is still out for most of us.
It seems to me that there are surely players out there who can contribute much of what Crouch is good at - but can also do the normal centre-forward tasks - like scoring regularly.
I'm also concerned that there's something of a bizarre 'cult-type-thing' building up around Crouch. It seems that people who love him have undergone some kind of brainwashing or footballing epiphany and have been left utterly immune to reason when it comes to an honest discussion of his strengths and weaknesses.
For my part, I can recognise that he played a part in our improvement last season but it's ludicrous to give him all this credit. The fact that the back 5 was more assured with Rafa's formations and systems was perhaps more important and the arrival of Sissoko was also a positive factor (as was the departure of a few flops like Josemi and Nunez).
TheStig
04-08-06, 10:05 AM
I think you may be right Peter. I do think Crouch can score more goals though, if he'd not had that long run at the start without a goal he'd have got a fair amount, and he got 15 goals for Southampton I think.
I can't see Rafa selling him any time soon.
scubykuntz
04-08-06, 10:08 AM
I'd sell him yesterday.
He's possibly the worst striker I've ever seen play for Liverpool Football Club (and no, I don't count the likes of Sean Dundee or Erik Meijer). Although Morientes is close.
Yes, he has a "GTFABM", and is useful at holding the ball up high up the pitch, but I expect a little more from a Liverpool striker.
Just think about the fabulous, gifted, exciting forward players we've had over recent years: Fowler, Aldridge, Rush, Collymore, Barnes, Beardsley, Owen. Yes, we've been spoilt, but even Emile Heskey had one fabulous season.
Rodders is slower than a fucking glacier, is shit in the air, has zero aggression, and is a very poor finisher.
It makes me a bit sad that he plays for Liverpool, because he wouldn't get close to a game for any of our peers.
I would still keep him if we don't get another striker in, but if Kuyt (or similar) arrives, he should be gone sooner rather than later.
Jesus, every time I read one of your posts you are always, without exception slaughtering a current Liverpool player... Why don't you fuck off to redcafe (or whatever it's called) where you belong.
The fact is Peter Crouch played a significant part in our 20 point improvement last season. He may be lacking in certain departments sure, but he also brings something that a lot of other teams don't have.
Basically Rafa (and his team mates for that matter) seem to like him, so what idiots like you think doesn't really matter.
brendan
04-08-06, 10:09 AM
Jesus, every time I read one of your posts you are always, without exception slaughtering a current Liverpool player... Why don't you fuck off to redcafe (or whatever it's called) where you belong.
The fact is Peter Crouch played a significant part in our 20 point improvement last season. He may be lacking in certain departments sure, but he also brings something that a lot of other teams don't have.
Basically Rafa (and his team mates for that matter) seem to like him, so what idiots like you think doesn't really matter.
Another lackwit fails to grasp the concept of a "discussion forum".
Peter Delvechio
04-08-06, 10:09 AM
Neither can I but more because we wouldn't get our money back.
BTW - I find it strange that people believe Rafa when he says he didn't buy a centre-forward to score goals. I think that's BS - Rafa hoped that with good service from the wings and well-delivered set plays, Crouch would get about 20. I reckon he's satisfied with the link-up play part but bitterly disappointed in Crouch's goal return.
I can't see Rafa selling him any time soon.
Yep, daft thread. Whatever next? A thread entitled "Selling Sissoko?"?
scubykuntz
04-08-06, 10:19 AM
Another lackwit fails to grasp the concept of a "discussion forum".
I fully understand the concept, I just discussing the fact that you seem to hate every single player who plays for this club.
The fact is, Peter Crouch may have his limitations, but even a numbnut like you can't deny that he improved our team last year, he also always gives 100% when he is on the pitch and deserves a bit more respect than;
"Rodders is slower than a fucking glacier, is shit in the air, has zero aggression, and is a very poor finisher"
I fully understand the concept, I just discussing the fact that you seem to hate every single player who plays for this club.
The fact is, Peter Crouch may have his limitations, but even a numbnut like you can't deny that he improved our team last year, he also always gives 100% when he is on the pitch and deserves a bit more respect than;
"Rodders is slower than a fucking glacier, is shit in the air, has zero aggression, and is a very poor finisher"
He did nothing that Kevin Davies couldn't have done for £1M.
Peter Delvechio
04-08-06, 10:26 AM
Yep, daft thread. Whatever next? A thread entitled "Selling Sissoko?"?
I don't think there's any need for that. You're obviously intent solely on antagonizing people.
If you think a thread is daft maybe you shouldn't bother reading it or posting on it.
brendan
04-08-06, 10:26 AM
I fully understand the concept, I just discussing the fact that you seem to hate every single player who plays for this club.
The fact is, Peter Crouch may have his limitations, but even a numbnut like you can't deny that he improved our team last year, he also always gives 100% when he is on the pitch and deserves a bit more respect than;
"Rodders is slower than a fucking glacier, is shit in the air, has zero aggression, and is a very poor finisher"
I realise that engaging in a sensible, intelligent conversation with you would appear to be as pointless as giving a dog a spelling test, but here goes:
I do not "hate" every Liverpool player. To suggest as much is retarded. For the record, there are several Liverpool players that I almost love.
They are, for the record:
Gerrard, Fowler, Hyypia, Carra, Riise, Finnan, Alonso, Garcia.
I may have missed off a few, but hey-ho.
He did nothing that Kevin Davies couldn't have done for £1M.
Absolute complete and utter garbage. I know a little bit more about Kevin Davies than most, having watched him play many times in the lower divisions before his big move to Southampton and let me tell you he isn't half the player Crouch is.
The view you take on Crouch is just that of a typical tabloid reader; pure trash. Do you sit and watch Jimmy Hill's Sunday Supplement, whooping and cheering as the likes of Brian fucking Woolnough and Martin Samuel continually call Crouch a 'disgrace'?
As Rafa once said, anyone who can't see that Crouch is a good player simply doesn't know anything about football. End of.
scubykuntz
04-08-06, 10:27 AM
He did nothing that Kevin Davies couldn't have done for £1M.
Do you really honestly believe that?
I guess we'll never know cos Rafa chose to pay £7mil for crouch instead, but then again, what does Rafa know about it.:whatever:
Absolute complete and utter garbage. I know a little bit more about Kevin Davies than most, having watched him play many times in the lower divisions before his big move to Southampton and let me tell you he isn't half the player Crouch is.
As opposed to Crouch's SUBLIME record before he got to a big club?
What was it, 4 goals in 4 years at Aston Villa?
As opposed to Crouch's SUBLIME record before he got to a big club?
What was it, 4 goals in 4 years at Aston Villa?
You've never heard of a late developer then? I'm sure if you checked the likes of Luca Toni's record when he was 22 years old it wouldn't be impressive either.
Crouch barely played at Villa and, yet again, you're being selective with your barely relevant stats.
rcasemore
04-08-06, 10:34 AM
Jesus, every time I read one of your posts you are always, without exception slaughtering a current Liverpool player... Why don't you fuck off to redcafe (or whatever it's called) where you belong.
The fact is Peter Crouch played a significant part in our 20 point improvement last season. He may be lacking in certain departments sure, but he also brings something that a lot of other teams don't have.
Basically Rafa (and his team mates for that matter) seem to like him, so what idiots like you think doesn't really matter.
Ahhhh someone with a sensible post on Crouch!! Crouch was so important for the improvements we made last season and thats what Rafa all about players to improve the team not an individual super star!!
Good post mate, I would be interested to see how he gets on next season with 2 genuine wide players and a quick partner in Bellamy to get onto his flick ons and knock downs.
Some of the people on here seem to think they are a better judge of footballer than Rafa!!
You've never heard of a late developer then? I'm sure if you checked the likes of Luca Toni's record when he was 22 years old it wouldn't be impressive either.
.
Are you *somehow* trying to suggest that Crouch is, at some stage of his "late-developing" career going to score 30 goals a season, two years running, and be one of the most sought-after target men in Europe?
Cos if you are, then I'll through your mandatory "haha's" straight back at you.
rcasemore
04-08-06, 10:36 AM
As opposed to Crouch's SUBLIME record before he got to a big club?
What was it, 4 goals in 4 years at Aston Villa?
FFS do you actually support Liverpool??
Everytime I read a post you make it seems your knocking one of our own!!
Anyone and everyone that plays in the red shirt should get full support from us supporters (God even Diouf when he was there....urgghhh)
brendan
04-08-06, 10:36 AM
Are you *somehow* trying to suggest that Crouch is, at some stage of his "late-developing" career going to score 30 goals a season, two years running, and be one of the most sought-after target men in Europe?
Cos if you are, then I'll through your mandatory "haha's" straight back at you.
Ooof!
Peter Delvechio
04-08-06, 10:39 AM
FFS do you actually support Liverpool??
Everytime I read a post you make it seems your knocking one of our own!!
Anyone and everyone that plays in the red shirt should get full support from us supporters (God even Diouf when he was there....urgghhh)
Please rcasemore, it's only a discussion. What are we to discuss if we can't be honest in our views about the strengths and weaknesses in our squad?
I'll defend our players like a fruitcake when some Manc or Chav takes me on but I expect to be afforded freedom of expression when I'm amongst fellow Liverpool supporters.
Live and let live Dude!
brendan
04-08-06, 10:40 AM
FFS do you actually support Liverpool??
Everytime I read a post you make it seems your knocking one of our own!!
Anyone and everyone that plays in the red shirt should get full support from us supporters (God even Diouf when he was there....urgghhh)
It's perfectly allowable (amd makes for great debate) to have opinions on players, negative or otherwise.
Ryan may be a tedious, repetitive fuckwit (and even his nearest and dearest would back that up), but he has his favourite and not-so-favourite players, as do we all.
Noone is suggesting that we go to matches and boo Rodders, but debating how good he is(n't) on a Forum is what the fucking thing is here for.
I took great, cathartic pleasure in raging about Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou, Pellegrno, Josemi et al until I'd seen the fcuking back of them. I don't feel as strongly about Rodders, perhaps, but I still want him gone.
FFS do you actually support Liverpool??
Everytime I read a post you make it seems your knocking one of our own!!
Anyone and everyone that plays in the red shirt should get full support from us supporters (God even Diouf when he was there....urgghhh)
It's. A. Thread. About. Peter. Crouch.
What are we going to talk about in it, fcuking Hamas militaants?
Are you *somehow* trying to suggest that Crouch is, at some stage of his "late-developing" career going to score 30 goals a season, two years running, and be one of the most sought-after target men in Europe?
Cos if you are, then I'll through your mandatory "haha's" straight back at you.
Sorry? You'll "through" them?
Who said anything about scoring 30 goals? I don't give a shit if none of our strikers score 30 goals, so long as we win the title. You seem to be forgetting that Benitez won La Liga without a 30 goal striker and with someone has limited as Mista leading the line. You don't get trophies for having a 30 goal striker, nor do you receive medals for being "sought after".
Noone is suggesting that we go to matches and boo Rodders, but debating how good he is(n't) on a Forum is what the fucking thing is here for.
If Ryan ever bothered going to a game, it'd be interesting to see if the young boy is as obnoxious inside Anfield as he can be on here. Can't see it myself. If he carried on at Anfield like he does on here he'd be lynched.
Sorry? You'll "through" them?
Who said anything about scoring 30 goals? I don't give a shit if none of our strikers score 30 goals, so long as we win the title. You seem to be forgetting that Benitez won La Liga without a 30 goal striker and with someone has limited as Mista leading the line. You don't get trophies for having a 30 goal striker, nor do you receive medals for being "sought after".
'Throw', although I'm glad you pointed it out. Picking up on typo's surely is the last desperate refuge of a beaten man.
And as for "30 goals", well wasn't it you who brought Toni into the argument by way of backing up your claim that Crouch could be a "late developer" like him?
Oh, and how many times have Valencia won the Premier League?
For your sake, stop. The last time someone got this badly beaten, Paul Gadcoigne was 'enjoying' his honeymoon with Sheryl.
brendan
04-08-06, 10:45 AM
If Ryan ever bothered going to a game, it'd be interesting to see if the young boy is as obnoxious inside Anfield as he can be on here. Can't see it myself. If he carried on at Anfield like he does on here he'd be lynched.
Why is it always the divvies that drag up things like "going to the game" when you don't know the first thing about him?
If Ryan ever bothered going to a game, it'd be interesting to see if the young boy is as obnoxious inside Anfield as he can be on here. Can't see it myself. If he carried on at Anfield like he does on here he'd be lynched.
Sorry, my mistake.
I was under the impression that picking up on typo's was the last desperate attempt of a beaten man, obviously I was wrong.
"Yeah but you don't go to games" is THE solace of a raped, annihilated forum-loser.
I'm well and truly through with you.
As much as I disagree with Peter, Ryan and Brendan's view point on Crouch. They are perfectly entitled to express their opinions on the matter.
AND, if you look at the bare stats, you can argue that Crouch didn't bring enough to the plate for a Liverpool Striker. However, I still support him and think generally he does a good job.
I'm hoping for an improved strike rate from him this year.
Sorry, my mistake.
I was under the impression that picking up on typo's was the last desperate attempt of a beaten man, obviously I was wrong.
"Yeah but you don't go to games" is THE solace of a raped, annihilated forum-loser.
I'm well and truly through with you.
See you in The Park for a bevvy before a game next season then. We can sort out any differences there. Won't take long. :)
brendan
04-08-06, 10:49 AM
See you in The Park for a bevvy before a game next season then. We can sort out any differences there. Won't take long. :)
Hahahaha.
Just when you think he's exhausted EVERY avenue to make himself look an even bigger ****, he pulls the "let's have a fight in a pub near Anfield" classic out of the bag!
*wild applause*
Peter Delvechio
04-08-06, 10:51 AM
As much as I disagree with Peter, Ryan and Brendan's view point on Crouch. They are perfectly entitled to express their opinions on the matter.
AND, if you look at the bare stats, you can argue that Crouch didn't bring enough to the plate for a Liverpool Striker. However, I still support him and think generally he does a good job.
I'm hoping for an improved strike rate from him this year.
Y'know that's all I'm really saying.
+ that I'd consider selling him if we could get a good price that would help fund a better replaceent.
I don't think it's heretical or disloyal.
Peter Delvechio
04-08-06, 10:52 AM
See you in The Park for a bevvy before a game next season then. We can sort out any differences there. Won't take long. :)
Watch out Shaggy!
Ryan has a peg-gun!
I swear to God!
Hahahaha.
Just when you think he's exhausted EVERY avenue to make himself look an even bigger ****, he pulls the "let's have a fight in a pub near Anfield" classic out of the bag!
*wild applause*
:haha:
Who said anything about a fight?!?!?! A heated debate maybe. The "it won't take long" remark was a jibe that Ryan is unlikely to be there.
Anyway, I'm pleased to see you've started applying your commas correctly.
Peter Delvechio
04-08-06, 10:56 AM
Can we get back to the subject please.
Let's not let ShaggyAlonso hijack the thread - some people were making some excellent points.
See you in The Park for a bevvy before a game next season then. We can sort out any differences there. Won't take long. :)
I wish somebody had have thrown the towel in for you half an hour ago.
You've succeeded in making yourself look a fcuking idiot in front of everyone.
Shaggy hasn't hijacked the thread! But I agree we have been entering into the realm of a(nother) slanging match - which is getting tedious.
Just agree to disagree and stop bitchin'
calvoboy
04-08-06, 11:01 AM
Yes, thing like, Crouch giving the ball away more often over the course of a season n stuff.
That's where stats are bollocks though. You can't compare the passing stats of players in different positions on the pitch. Crouch tends to get the ball played up to him where he is expected to compete with a defender, win the ball, and lay it off with one touch. It's no surprise that he gives the ball away a lot of the time under those circumstances. Garcia usually gets the ball played to feet, and so is less likely to give the ball away.
Traore's pass completion stats were better than Gerrards at one stage two seasons ago, because all he was doing was passing it square to Sami, or along the line to Riise. Doesn't make him a better passer of the ball though.
That's where stats are bollocks though. You can't compare the passing stats of players in different positions on the pitch. Crouch tends to get the ball played up to him where he is expected to compete with a defender, win the ball, and lay it off with one touch. It's no surprise that he gives the ball away a lot of the time under those circumstances. Garcia usually gets the ball played to feet, and so is less likely to give the ball away.
Traore's pass completion stats were better than Gerrards at one stage two seasons ago, because all he was doing was passing it square to Sami, or along the line to Riise. Doesn't make him a better passer of the ball though.
:handshake:
For what it's worth, I think Crouch will have a better season this time around. He's more confident, his stock has grown and he feels at home in the squad. He may not play quite as regularly, but I fancy his contribution will be a worthy one.
Crouch was brilliant for us in the second half of the season. Especially when he played with fowler! I think he will be good with bellemy aswel. Lets not forget how well he did in all those internationals during the summer!
Peter Delvechio
04-08-06, 11:15 AM
I hope you're both right and Crouch tears up the Premiership this season. I really do.
I hope you're both right and Crouch tears up the Premiership this season. I really do.
Naturally, it'd be disconcerting if you hoped for otherwise.
"Tearing up the Premiership" seems a bit dramatic though! I think he'll do well and improve on last season (when I thought he was pretty good), but I dunno about tearing it up!
Bellamy might tear it up though....
Peter Delvechio
04-08-06, 11:19 AM
If they don't tear it up we should sell them both.
Crouch will have an even better season this year as i think he plays better with Gerrard in the centre. crouches intelligent link play works well with Gerrard a great combo
Crouch will have an even better season this year as i think he plays better with Gerrard in the centre. crouches intelligent link play works well with Gerrard a great combo
Agreed. The link-up play between Gerrard & Crouch got better and better. Stevie rates him highly, and trusts him 'football-wise', which is good enough for me. During the last year or two of Houllier's reign, Gerrard was clearly irritated by the lack of quality in the side and it's indicative of Crouch's value to the team that Gerrard enjoys playing with him so much.
scubykuntz
04-08-06, 12:24 PM
As much as I disagree with Peter, Ryan and Brendan's view point on Crouch. They are perfectly entitled to express their opinions on the matter.
AND, if you look at the bare stats, you can argue that Crouch didn't bring enough to the plate for a Liverpool Striker. However, I still support him and think generally he does a good job.
I'm hoping for an improved strike rate from him this year.
Couldnt agree with you more, as the guys you have mentioned love to point out is that this is a discussion forum, and I agree it is, but it's not a slagging forum, which is what Ryan and Brendan in particular seem to do.
If a manc or a Chav said some of the stuff these two ******** say about liverpool players then I would have a go at them as well.
FFS Ryan thinks Peter Crouch is a shite player cos of the way he looks;
It never fails to amaze me how good some people think Crouch is?
Are we watching the same goofy, lumering, impotent oaf here or wha?
He doesn't seem to have the brainpower to work out that PC was bought to do a specific job for Liverpool, which he has done pretty well IMO.
So if they want to debate the merits or otherwise of any player in a Liverpool shirt that's fine, but leave out the childish "Lurch","Rodders", "Oaf", etc and leave that to our enemys supporters. (Which i think these two morons secretly are!!)
Couldnt agree with you more, as the guys you have mentioned love to point out is that this is a discussion forum, and I agree it is, but it's not a slagging forum, which is what Ryan and Brendan in particular seem to do.
If a manc or a Chav said some of the stuff these two ******** say about liverpool players then I would have a go at them as well.
FFS Ryan thinks Peter Crouch is a shite player cos of the way he looks;
He doesn't seem to have the brainpower to work out that PC was bought to do a specific job for Liverpool, which he has done pretty well IMO.
So if they want to debate the merits or otherwise of any player in a Liverpool shirt that's fine, but leave out the childish "Lurch","Rodders", "Oaf", etc and leave that to our enemys supporters. (Which i think these two morons secretly are!!)
Yep, if that job was "Don't score very many goals, especially not in European Competition - where your sole requirement will be to roll the ball at the Benfica keeper's arse as he lies on the ground 5 yards from goal"... then he's done it to a TEE!
brendan
04-08-06, 12:27 PM
Couldnt agree with you more, as the guys you have mentioned love to point out is that this is a discussion forum, and I agree it is, but it's not a slagging forum, which is what Ryan and Brendan in particular seem to do.
If a manc or a Chav said some of the stuff these two ******** say about liverpool players then I would have a go at them as well.
FFS Ryan thinks Peter Crouch is a shite player cos of the way he looks;
He doesn't seem to have the brainpower to work out that PC was bought to do a specific job for Liverpool, which he has done pretty well IMO.
So if they want to debate the merits or otherwise of any player in a Liverpool shirt that's fine, but leave out the childish "Lurch","Rodders", "Oaf", etc and leave that to our enemys supporters. (Which i think these two morons secretly are!!)
Fucking hell, you're denser than a collapsing star.
You can't have a pop at people "slagging" others off and in the SAME POST refer to other contributors as "********" and "morons".
It makes you look thick, and obviates any point you *might* have had.
That is all.
Agreed. The link-up play between Gerrard & Crouch got better and better. Stevie rates him highly, and trusts him 'football-wise', which is good enough for me. During the last year or two of Houllier's reign, Gerrard was clearly irritated by the lack of quality in the side and it's indicative of Crouch's value to the team that Gerrard enjoys playing with him so much.
I actually find it great that Crouch puts the team over himself and if the team are scoring he is genuinely happy to be a provider as well. No matter who gives him the stick those with footballing brains can see crouches value....so what he looks gangly and awkward, whatever next,lets not sign Dirk coz he looks like the back end of a bus ¬!¬!
brendan
04-08-06, 12:29 PM
whatever next,lets not sign Dirk coz he looks like the back end of a bus ¬!¬!
Well, now you come to mention it..........
Peter Delvechio
04-08-06, 12:31 PM
I don't think anyone would care if he looked like Anne Widdecombe as long as he scored goals.
Like Peter Beardsley did - who was hardly a beauty even in the flush of youth.
scubykuntz
04-08-06, 12:34 PM
Fucking hell, you're denser than a collapsing star.
You can't have a pop at people "slagging" others off and in the SAME POST refer to other contributors as "spastics" and "morons".
It makes you look thick, and obviates any point you *might* have had.
That is all.
One big difference asshole, your actually on this forum (more's the pity) and can respond and defend yourself, PC isn't. But then again, if you were face to face with PC I don't think you'd say the things you say on here would you?
Not likely.
Also I really hate to sink to the level of "you started it" but as I'm dealing with a couple of infants, I believe you iniated the insults
Another lackwit fails to grasp the concept of a "discussion forum".
So you start the insults, I respond and you call me stupid for doing it. hmm:o
scubykuntz
04-08-06, 12:35 PM
Yep, if that job was "Don't score very many goals, especially not in European Competition - where your sole requirement will be to roll the ball at the Benfica keeper's arse as he lies on the ground 5 yards from goal"... then he's done it to a TEE!
Very clever, pick one incident and try to make it prove your point.
Eh, what about his winner against the scum in the Cup semi, he scored that so he must be the best player in the world then, yeah??
Peter Delvechio
04-08-06, 12:37 PM
I say, is all this aggression really necessary?
anfieldanfield
04-08-06, 12:39 PM
I don't think anyone would care if he looked like Anne Widdecombe as long as he scored goals.
Like Peter Beardsley did - who was hardly a beauty even in the flush of youth.
Ofcourse, I'd take an ugly 30 goal a season striker over a crap, slow, pretty boy, but, you can't deny, it's nice to have players that are easy on the eye.
A midfield four of Stevie, Xabi, Luis and Harry goes down a treat.
One big difference asshole, your actually on this forum (more's the pity) and can respond and defend yourself, PC isn't. But then again, if you were face to face with PC I don't think you'd say the things you say on here would you?
Not likely.
dont you mean face to chest :)
Ofcourse, I'd take an ugly 30 goal a season striker over a crap, slow, pretty boy, but, you can't deny, it's nice to have players that are easy on the eye.
A midfield four of Stevie, Xabi, Luis and Harry goes down a treat.
:confused:
brendan
04-08-06, 12:41 PM
Ofcourse, I'd take an ugly 30 goal a season striker over a crap, slow, pretty boy, but, you can't deny, it's nice to have players that are easy on the eye.
A midfield four of Stevie, Xabi, Luis and Harry goes down a treat.
Hahahaha.
Classic KT thread that was.
He concedes more possession than Luis Garcia. That is a fact.
covers more of pitch than any other player IMO. Was gerrards goals last season not a result of crouch in the team?
He has a part to play in bringing the league home
MrMichael
04-08-06, 12:45 PM
I say, is all this aggression really necessary?
No it most certainly isn't. I'm absolutely furious at some posters on here at the moment who seem utterly incapable of doing anything other than swaggering about these forums posting tirades and inflammatory comments at their fellow LFC fans. We try and have a relaxed forum where people can actually disagree and one or two infantile personalities seem utterly determined to spoil it for everyone. I do not understand the mentality that actively tries to go out of its way to wind up fans of the club they themselves support. Isn't that what RedCafe's for eh?
I'd be screaming for sin-binnings if it didn't mean I'd have to talk to the people involved. I need to calm down and see what the other mods want to do but this has gone well beyond a joke :rant:
covers more of pitch than any other player IMO. Was gerrards goals last season not a result of crouch in the team?
He has a part to play in bringing the league home
I think Rafa said the same thing.....amazed me when you think of the ground momo covers. He has an integral part and Rafa obviously thinks so or he wouldnt have paid somuch for him
covers more of pitch than any other player IMO. Was gerrards goals last season not a result of crouch in the team?
He has a part to play in bringing the league home
Rafa said on a few occasions that he was pleasantly surprised to discover Crouch even covered more ground than the irrepressible Sissoko in some games - which is no mean feat.
SamReynolds80
04-08-06, 12:47 PM
Crouchie definately deserves an extra season - why do people have an expectation that if he doesnt score 20+ goals, he's having a poor season. He's a quality second striker and will set up goals for Bellamy/Fowler...
If only he could head the ball....
Rafa said on a few occasions that he was pleasantly surprised to discover Crouch even covered more ground than the irrepressible Sissoko in some games - which is no mean feat.
I have no reason to doubt you, and if that is true, I am staggered.
Much respect to Crouch for putting in such effort.:handshake:
No it most certainly isn't. I'm absolutely furious at some posters on here at the moment who seem utterly incapable of doing anything other than swaggering about these forums posting tirades and inflammatory comments at their fellow LFC fans. We try and have a relaxed forum where people can actually disagree and one or two infantile personalities seem utterly determined to spoil it for everyone. I do not understand the mentality that actively tries to go out of its way to wind up fans of the club they themselves support. Isn't that what RedCafe's for eh?
I'd be screaming for sin-binnings if it didn't mean I'd have to talk to the people involved. I need to calm down and see what the other mods want to do but this has gone well beyond a joke :rant:
:whatever: only joking mate, I am an ex-koptalker and have been amazed and also appalled at some of the posters on here, some great quality but some absolute tripe!!! think you have your work cut out fella, perhaps you could set up a new forum called 'playground' where you can send people to settle there differences ...good luck :handshake:
Very clever, pick one incident and try to make it prove your point.
Eh, what about his winner against the scum in the Cup semi, he scored that so he must be the best player in the world then, yeah??
It wasn't the semi-final nimrod. That was the game that John Terry tucked him inside his socks, and meandered round making a cnut out of him.
And I haven't picked one incident. What about his ZERO goals in the Champions League? He couldn't even score in the sodding qualifiers, against the EuropeanPubTeams.
I have no reason to doubt you, and if that is true, I am staggered.
Much respect to Crouch for putting in such effort.:handshake:
i believe it is true
Crouch is not a striker more of a link player. We prob payed over the odds for him at the time but if we did not get him what the hell would we have done last season?!
And now adidas are making special shorts for him this season the skys the limit (i'll get my coat)
anfieldanfield
04-08-06, 12:51 PM
No it most certainly isn't. I'm absolutely furious at some posters on here at the moment who seem utterly incapable of doing anything other than swaggering about these forums posting tirades and inflammatory comments at their fellow LFC fans. We try and have a relaxed forum where people can actually disagree and one or two infantile personalities seem utterly determined to spoil it for everyone. I do not understand the mentality that actively tries to go out of its way to wind up fans of the club they themselves support. Isn't that what RedCafe's for eh?
I'd be screaming for sin-binnings if it didn't mean I'd have to talk to the people involved. I need to calm down and see what the other mods want to do but this has gone well beyond a joke :rant:
Massive overeaction Mod.
Let arguments/debates build, explode and then fizzle out naturally, it's the best way to police the forums.
Besides, if every minion on the site wants a poster hung drawn and quartered for bucking the trend and having a different opinion, whilst (god forbid) actually criticising one of our players then this site will be very boring indeed...
I have no reason to doubt you, and if that is true, I am staggered.
Much respect to Crouch for putting in such effort.:handshake:
Honestly mate, it is absolutely true. I was staggered too. I realised he worked hard but not to that extent. Maybe someone could find the article?
Hamstrung
04-08-06, 12:54 PM
I don't think anyone would care if he looked like Anne Widdecombe as long as he scored goals.
Like Peter Beardsley did - who was hardly a beauty even in the flush of youth.
http://www.lfchistory.net/player_profile.asp?player_id=1133
Crouch 1 in 3.75ish
http://www.lfchistory.net/player_profile.asp?player_id=264
Beardsley 1 in 2.9ish
Not a huge difference - although not comparing them as players, just the goals. Crouch had a poor start last season goals wise. I think Crouch is more than capable of getting 15/20 goals a season and getting his average down to 1 in 3. He won't get away with not scoring for 3 months this time, nor will it happen if he is playing regularly.
He's very intelligent player, and if he didn't look freakish there'd not have been the nonsense there was at the start of last season in the media. Obviously, I wouldn't expect to convince the people who aren't really interested in whether he's decent or not. They just like to be contrary because it brings attention.
Well, the lad has gone up in my estimation.
Let's just hope he can find that consistancy in front of goal. Case point, he should have buried that easy header against Zurich.
http://www.lfchistory.net/player_profile.asp?player_id=1133
Crouch 1 in 3.75ish
http://www.lfchistory.net/player_profile.asp?player_id=264
Beardsley 1 in 2.9ish
Not a huge difference - although not comparing them as players, just the goals. Crouch had a poor start last season goals wise. I think Crouch is more than capable of getting 15/20 goals a season and getting his average down to 1 in 3. He won't get away with not scoring for 3 months this time, nor will it happen if he is playing regularly.
He's very intelligent player, and if he didn't look freakish there'd not have been the nonsense there was at the start of last season in the media. Obviously, I wouldn't expect to convince the people who aren't really interested in whether he's decent or not. They just like to be contrary because it brings attention.
Excellent post from start to finish. :handshake:
scubykuntz
04-08-06, 01:15 PM
It wasn't the semi-final nimrod. That was the game that John Terry tucked him inside his socks, and meandered round making a cnut out of him.
And I haven't picked one incident. What about his ZERO goals in the Champions League? He couldn't even score in the sodding qualifiers, against the EuropeanPubTeams.
Ok, so I made a mistake about which game it was, you must be right about everything.
In that particular post you DID pick one incident.
Champions league qualifiers, so that was when he had just joined the club and was still settling in wasn't it. Then he went through a bit of a dry spell like even the best strikers in the world can do (Owen, how many times?)
I remember it took Robbie a few games to score as well on his return, he must be shite as well.
The main thing is the fact that in your limited mental capacity you are never going to grasp the fact that PC was not bought as an out and out goal scorer, Rafa has said this many times, and also that he is happy with him, but you are just too dim to accept the truth.
I'm not wasting any more of my time on you, you are the weakest wank, Goodbye :whatever:
Just put the dimwits on 'ignore'....problem solved. If we wanted to read that sort of bile, we'd buy the Daily Star.
[QUOTE=scubykuntz]Ok, so I made a mistake about which game it was, you must be right about everything.
In that particular post you DID pick one incident.
Champions league qualifiers, so that was when he had just joined the club and was still settling in wasn't it. Then he went through a bit of a dry spell like even the best strikers in the world can do (Owen, how many times?)
I remember it took Robbie a few games to score as well on his return, he must be shite as well.
[QUOTE]
Y'see this is where you're piss-weak argument comes tumbling down.
Even if we give you that it was "a bit of a dry spell" (when it was a Stephen Fry like dry spell of 19 games ACTUALLY), he only managed to come through said spell and finish up with a paltry 7 league goals.
The "best strikers in the World", Michael Owen after his barren spells, and the early periods of Fowler's career - They all come through such spells and banged in the goals afterwards.
You could be sure if one of those strikers hit a dry patch, theat they'd more than make up for it in the follwing 10 odd games. Coruch doesn't give off that impression one bit.
As for your "weakest wank" comment, well I find that a tad ironic, given the pathetically weak fist you've made of this argument.
[QUOTE=scubykuntz]Ok, so I made a mistake about which game it was, you must be right about everything.
In that particular post you DID pick one incident.
Champions league qualifiers, so that was when he had just joined the club and was still settling in wasn't it. Then he went through a bit of a dry spell like even the best strikers in the world can do (Owen, how many times?)
I remember it took Robbie a few games to score as well on his return, he must be shite as well.
[QUOTE]
Y'see this is where you're piss-weak argument comes tumbling down.
Even if we give you that it was "a bit of a dry spell" (when it was a Stephen Fry like dry spell of 19 games ACTUALLY), he only managed to come through said spell and finish up with a paltry 7 league goals.
The "best strikers in the World", Michael Owen after his barren spells, and the early periods of Fowler's career - They all come through such spells and banged in the goals afterwards.
You could be sure if one of those strikers hit a dry patch, theat they'd more than make up for it in the follwing 10 odd games. Coruch doesn't give off that impression one bit.
As for your "weakest wank" comment, well I find that a tad ironic, given the pathetically weak fist you've made of this argument.
But people score more with Crouch around??? so what of he scores only seven goals..........dont give me that striker is there to score goals lalala
Darren bent scored 18 last yr and probably set up jack all.
Crouch had a barren spell, then scored 7 but probably created many, many more. Having Crouch in the team brings other players into the game......havin a RVN, shevchenko, johnson,Trez doesnt although it does gaurantee goals :)
[QUOTE=Ryan][QUOTE=scubykuntz]Ok, so I made a mistake about which game it was, you must be right about everything.
In that particular post you DID pick one incident.
Champions league qualifiers, so that was when he had just joined the club and was still settling in wasn't it. Then he went through a bit of a dry spell like even the best strikers in the world can do (Owen, how many times?)
I remember it took Robbie a few games to score as well on his return, he must be shite as well.
But people score more with Crouch around??? so what of he scores only seven goals..........dont give me that striker is there to score goals lalala
Darren bent scored 18 last yr and probably set up jack all.
Crouch had a barren spell, then scored 7 but probably created many, many more. Having Crouch in the team brings other players into the game......havin a RVN, shevchenko, johnson,Trez doesnt although it does gaurantee goals :)
Crouch created 4 assists last season. The whole season long. 4 assists. 4.
Your argument has now boiled down to "But he's not there to score goals", fair enough, I've now told you he doesn't provide many assists either, so that basically leaves us with 'his mere presence is a distraction and he puts off defenders', we should have saved the £7M and bought a big fcuk-off scarecrow.
It's perfectly allowable (amd makes for great debate) to have opinions on players, negative or otherwise.
Ryan may be a tedious, repetitive fuckwit (and even his nearest and dearest would back that up), but he has his favourite and not-so-favourite players, as do we all.
Noone is suggesting that we go to matches and boo Rodders, but debating how good he is(n't) on a Forum is what the fucking thing is here for.
I took great, cathartic pleasure in raging about Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou, Pellegrno, Josemi et al until I'd seen the fcuking back of them. I don't feel as strongly about Rodders, perhaps, but I still want him gone.
I've read this thread up to this point.
Been entertaining so far, and it's wrong to criticise Ryan and Brendan for having opinions on players. But I can see this turning nasty soon...
[QUOTE=red g][QUOTE=Ryan]
Crouch created 4 assists last season. The whole season long. 4 assists. 4.
Your argument has now boiled down to "But he's not there to score goals", fair enough, I've now told you he doesn't provide many assists either, so that basically leaves us with 'his mere presence is a distraction and he puts off defenders', we should have saved the £7M and bought a big fcuk-off scarecrow.
My argument has not boiled down to anything. My point is that he is a valuable TEAM player who is an integral member of the TEAM. ok 4 assists....but i bet u his lay offs, hold up play created many more goals although he may of not had the assist. He is very difficult to play against, has great vision and a deft touch.....unfortunately he will never be a 20 goals striker but reckon he will get 15 this yr
Ryan is he better than heskey??
Delinquent
04-08-06, 01:56 PM
If we could make our money back on Crouch right now, I'd sell him in a heartbeat.
[QUOTE=Ryan][QUOTE=red g]
My argument has not boiled down to anything. My point is that he is a valuable TEAM player who is an integral member of the TEAM. ok 4 assists....but i bet u his lay offs, hold up play created many more goals although he may of not had the assist. He is very difficult to play against, has great vision and a deft touch.....unfortunately he will never be a 20 goals striker but reckon he will get 15 this yr
Ryan is he better than heskey??
Call me strange, but I expect a lot more from a £7M striker than "lay offs and hold up play"...
I just don't like him.
Heskey, in his first season with us was unstoppable, and certainly had it within his capabilities to go on to be one of the most powerful, fearsome strikers in the game. Unfortunatly, his motivation, and will-to-prove-himself were and always will be lacking.
Am I glad he left? Yes.
Do I wish Crouch would leave? Yes.
If we could make our money back on Crouch right now, I'd sell him in a heartbeat.
GREAT to see you Del boy.
brendan
04-08-06, 02:01 PM
[QUOTE=red g][QUOTE=Ryan]
Crouch created 4 assists last season. The whole season long. 4 assists. 4.
Your argument has now boiled down to "But he's not there to score goals", fair enough, I've now told you he doesn't provide many assists either, so that basically leaves us with 'his mere presence is a distraction and he puts off defenders', we should have saved the £7M and bought a big fcuk-off scarecrow.
That isn't too far removed from what we did do.
He's a £7m scarecrow.
scubykuntz
04-08-06, 02:01 PM
[QUOTE=red g][QUOTE=Ryan]
Crouch created 4 assists last season. The whole season long. 4 assists. 4.
Your argument has now boiled down to "But he's not there to score goals", fair enough, I've now told you he doesn't provide many assists either, so that basically leaves us with 'his mere presence is a distraction and he puts off defenders', we should have saved the £7M and bought a big fcuk-off scarecrow.
You do know that was somebody else your replying to now. I think your getting a bit confused.
Ok, so now your going the stats route, yadda, yadda, yadda,.....
Answer me one question honestly?
Do you think Peter Crouch contributed to our large improvement in the league, compared to the year before? I'll even make it simple for you;
Yes, definitely.
He did his share.
Maybe a little.
No way! he's an OAF!!
Now just to be clear for you, I said contributed, not solely responsible for, ok...
[QUOTE=red g][QUOTE=Ryan]
Call me strange, but I expect a lot more from a £7M striker than "lay offs and hold up play"...
I just don't like him.
Heskey, in his first season with us was unstoppable, and certainly had it within his capabilities to go on to be one of the most powerful, fearsome strikers in the game. Unfortunatly, his motivation, and will-to-prove-himself were and always will be lacking.
Am I glad he left? Yes.
Do I wish Crouch would leave? Yes.
you dont like him??? would never have guessed :handshake:
So for 7million who would you take instead??
Delinquent
04-08-06, 02:06 PM
GREAT to see you Del boy.
Likewise mate. I wondered where the old boys were knocking about. A load of reserves have been *promoted* at KT so it's becoming a bit of a Dunk wankfest again. Perhaps I'll stick around......
anfieldanfield
04-08-06, 02:13 PM
If we could make our money back on Crouch right now, I'd sell him in a heartbeat.
Welcome aboard mate.
Any chance you brought Keniget with you ?
[QUOTE=Ryan][QUOTE=red g]
You do know that was somebody else your replying to now. I think your getting a bit confused.
Ok, so now your going the stats route, yadda, yadda, yadda,.....
Answer me one question honestly?
Do you think Peter Crouch contributed to our large improvement in the league, compared to the year before? I'll even make it simple for you;
Yes, definitely.
He did his share.
Maybe a little.
No way! he's an OAF!!
Now just to be clear for you, I said contributed, not solely responsible for, ok...
A large part of our improvement last season on the previous year's efforts was due to the fact that we had no latter stages of the Champions League, we conceded FAR less goals, and had a fit Steven Gerrard for the majority of the year. If you view our goals scored category and compare it to the previous year's, you'll see that they're remarkably similar. We gained more points last season, because we conceded less goals.
You could say he contributed, but then you could say that about Pongolle or Traore too. By merely being part of the squad he contributed.
All in all though, he was ZERO improvement on Milan Baros, and I didn't like him either.
Delinquent
04-08-06, 02:15 PM
Welcome aboard mate.
Any chance you brought Keniget with you ?
Not yet....
It's hilarious actually. Any attempts to post the details to Ryan's hideaway have been deleted in an instant. I think they've got someone guarding the shoutbox 24/7 just in case.
It's been quite amusing giving them work to do though.
Likewise mate. I wondered where the old boys were knocking about. A load of reserves have been *promoted* at KT so it's becoming a bit of a Dunk wankfest again. Perhaps I'll stick around......
Must mail you soon.
Is your old email address the same?
Welcome aboard mate.
Any chance you brought Keniget with you ?
Great shout. Very good poster.
Not yet....
It's hilarious actually. Any attempts to post the details to Ryan's hideaway have been deleted in an instant. I think they've got someone guarding the shoutbox 24/7 just in case.
It's been quite amusing giving them work to do though.
Tell me about it, just got a strike for posting 'est 1892' as Single was trying to get hold of Ryan! That Livvy is a real tosspot. Anyone seen the link on Newsnow, 13:31 news item.
scubykuntz
04-08-06, 02:18 PM
[QUOTE=scubykuntz][QUOTE=Ryan]
A large part of our improvement last season on the previous year's efforts was due to the fact that we had no latter stages of the Champions League, we conceded FAR less goals, and had a fit Steven Gerrard for the majority of the year. If you view our goals scored category and compare it to the previous year's, you'll see that they're remarkably similar. We gained more points last season, because we conceded less goals.
You could say he contributed, but then you could say that about Pongolle or Traore too. By merely being part of the squad he contributed.
All in all though, he was ZERO improvement on Milan Baros, and I didn't like him either.
Jesus, I really couldnt make it any simpler, just pick 1,2,3, or 4.
Great shout. Very good poster.
Doesn't the fact that he starts every post with 'Heh' annoy you? Gets right on my tits, is he the Fonz?
[QUOTE=scubykuntz][QUOTE=Ryan]
A large part of our improvement last season on the previous year's efforts was due to the fact that we had no latter stages of the Champions League, we conceded FAR less goals, and had a fit Steven Gerrard for the majority of the year. If you view our goals scored category and compare it to the previous year's, you'll see that they're remarkably similar. We gained more points last season, because we conceded less goals.
You could say he contributed, but then you could say that about Pongolle or Traore too. By merely being part of the squad he contributed.
All in all though, he was ZERO improvement on Milan Baros, and I didn't like him either.
I can't argue with any of that. Good post.:handshake:
Leonard Crowley
04-08-06, 02:19 PM
So this is where all the flotsam and jetsam has washed up!!!
Hiya lads!
Mumsafan
04-08-06, 02:20 PM
With Nando and Cisse being given more than a season to prove themselves I think Crouch will get the same at least
Tell me about it, just got a strike for posting 'est 1892' as Single was trying to get hold of Ryan! That Livvy is a real tosspot. Anyone seen the link on Newsnow, 13:31 news item.
Singlerider? What did he want?
Livvy's actually not the worst. Well in comparison to the rest of 'em, obv.
Doesn't the fact that he starts every post with 'Heh' annoy you? Gets right on my tits, is he the Fonz?
Ha ha, he does actually do that a lot, yeah.
Never really bothered me though. I think he's a great poster.
I think Peter Crouch bought a lot to our game last year and will benefit further from having the added pace and mobility of Bellamy, Pennant and Gonzales in the team this year. His weakness is scoring goals but in a front pairing very few teams have two high scoring players. I think that in this context a haul of 15 goals is good so long as he creates chances for other players and holds up the ball.
I think that PC does hold the ball up well and would like to know exactly what the statistic that has been refered to was. By this I mean was it a literal count of how many passes went a stray, or how many time they gave away possession (bad pass or being tackled) and wether it was a percentage stat or took into account the number of minutes played etc. Without this information quoting a stat is entirely meaningless. I would also like to see a break down of the areas in which the ball was given away.
The other day someone had a stat about the top long passers in the PL, Carrick was top, Alonso second and Hyypia was in the top 5. It just goes to show that context is everything.
Delinquent
04-08-06, 02:28 PM
Must mail you soon.
Is your old email address the same?
Yeah 'tis. If there's any more collective piss-ups planned before I go back to uni, I may well be available. With a summer of working, it's about the only time I'll ever have enough money to make the trip north.
Ryan, I think Oncey gave him your e-mail so you may want to check that, as for Keni yeah once i ignore the first three letters of his posts they're usually pretty good.
Absolute complete and utter garbage. I know a little bit more about Kevin Davies than most, having watched him play many times in the lower divisions before his big move to Southampton and let me tell you he isn't half the player Crouch is.
The view you take on Crouch is just that of a typical tabloid reader; pure trash. Do you sit and watch Jimmy Hill's Sunday Supplement, whooping and cheering as the likes of Brian fucking Woolnough and Martin Samuel continually call Crouch a 'disgrace'?
As Rafa once said, anyone who can't see that Crouch is a good player simply doesn't know anything about football. End of.
Agreed, by some of the comments he and another makes I really question wether they watch our games at all.
Yeah 'tis. If there's any more collective piss-ups planned before I go back to uni, I may well be available. With a summer of working, it's about the only time I'll ever have enough money to make the trip north.
Think the next 'piss-up' is planned for the Spurs game, which is the thrid week in September or something like that.
When do you go back to Uni?
Ryan, I think Oncey gave him your e-mail so you may want to check that, as for Keni yeah once i ignore the first three letters of his posts they're usually pretty good.
Don't think he emailed me.
Ah well, how's KT going anyway?
Delinquent
04-08-06, 02:32 PM
Think the next 'piss-up' is planned for the Spurs game, which is the thrid week in September or something like that.
When do you go back to Uni?
We've got a house so I'll be returning at some stage in September. Haven't decided yet. May be able to make that though, if someone can get me a ticket.
Don't think he emailed me.
Ah well, how's KT going anyway?
Quieter than a group of Monks in a library.
We've got a house so I'll be returning at some stage in September. Haven't decided yet. May be able to make that though, if someone can get me a ticket.
I'll mail you in a while mate.
brendan
04-08-06, 02:34 PM
Not yet....
It's hilarious actually. Any attempts to post the details to Ryan's hideaway have been deleted in an instant. I think they've got someone guarding the shoutbox 24/7 just in case.
It's been quite amusing giving them work to do though.
I post anywhere there are decent posters, and REFUSE to get embroiled in any anti-KT b0ll0cks with any of the lemmings on the web.
The only think I don't really like about this place is a few too many virulent anti-KT retards, and its close links to that hapless fcuking loon "rupert" on the loonyblog. I don't like giving that cnut any ammunition for his deranged ramblings.
Quieter than a group of Monks in a library.
Serious?
It was dying a sorry death in the last few weeks I was there anyway. The majority of it's better posters have come here from what I can see.
Mumsafan
04-08-06, 02:40 PM
I post anywhere there are decent posters, and REFUSE to get embroiled in any anti-KT b0ll0cks with any of the lemmings on the web.
The only think I don't really like about this place is a few too many virulent anti-KT retards, and its close links to that hapless fcuking loon "rupert" on the loonyblog. I don't like giving that cnut any ammunition for his deranged ramblings.
Yeah who is that Rupert? Is the one from Hong Kong who wanted to force his new born into being a vegetarian?
Delinquent
04-08-06, 02:42 PM
I post anywhere there are decent posters, and REFUSE to get embroiled in any anti-KT b0ll0cks with any of the lemmings on the web.
The only think I don't really like about this place is a few too many virulent anti-KT retards, and its close links to that hapless fcuking loon "rupert" on the loonyblog. I don't like giving that cnut any ammunition for his deranged ramblings.
I don't care too much for the politics either, really. If I did, I'd have left KT years ago. And I have no idea what you're on about with regards to rupert, but with a name like that, he was probably doomed from the outset.
Yeah who is that Rupert? Is the one from Hong Kong who wanted to force his new born into being a vegetarian?
Good shout, it might be him. Don't know though.
Yeah who is that Rupert? Is the one from Hong Kong who wanted to force his new born into being a vegetarian?
Fuck i remember that, "you all just dont understand me claptrap"! I really can't remember his alias though.
Re the anti KT stuff, it amazes me how anyone can devote so much time to that waste of bandwidth. I have it on authority that the author is actually sound though he reads like a bona fide retard.
Oops hes a mod isn't he? - that's me fucked then :eyebrow:
brendan
04-08-06, 03:35 PM
Fuck i remember that, "you all just dont understand me claptrap"! I really can't remember his alias though.
Re the anti KT stuff, it amazes me how anyone can devote so much time to that waste of bandwidth. I have it on authority that the author is actually sound though he reads like a bona fide retard.
Oops hes a mod isn't he? - that's me fucked then :eyebrow:
All of the REALLY embarrassing stuff on there is usually credited to "rupert", who also sent some rather embarrassing e-mails to Ryan.
He's a bit of a weird cnut, by all accounts.
Pah, this is all lost on me. I spent a while on the blog and soon lost the will the live - It was touch and go for a while.
Yep, daft thread. Whatever next? A thread entitled "Selling Sissoko?"?
Yeah it dismays me to see people starting threads with a semi-reasonable title, just so they can have a pop at our players.
Criticism of LFC players should be constructive, whereas most of the nonsense on here is destructive to the lad's confidence.
I actually think some of the moronic mantras trotted out by the unholy trinity on here are designed to make him fail and they won't be happy, or quiet, until the lad does fail
It's getting tiresome now, if you really want to make an internet name for yourself by being objectionable and antagonistic then please do it for all players rather than one or two ; or better still fuck off to Old Trafford with all the rest of the LFC haters.
:handshake:
G Man, I think all LFC fans should have the right to express their opinion regarding any player - as long as they can back up their claims and justify what they are saying.
And, my personal opinion, is that criticism of Crouch is potentially justified - even if I don't personally agree with it. This thread, unfortunately, de-generated into tit for tat slanging at times. That is nothing, but tedious and dull.
Is this the sort of place that thinks it's OK to call a LFC and England striker a "goofy lumering (whatever that means) impotent oaf" ?
That's just plain nasty. Goofy? Well that's relevant to selling him. Lumering? I presume he means lumbering and as we've seen he covered more ground than Stevie G. Impotent? Well Ryan must be speaking from personal experience unless he has seen Crouch's medical records. Again I fail to see how that is relevant to selling him. Oaf? Well that's also difficult word to define but it is quite clearly an insult put in there for the sake of it.
So please, enlighten me, is Crouch a goofy, lumering, impotent oaf and is this criticism justified. If you think it is then this site has gone down in my estimation.
Is this more justified criticism Rich?
Rodders is slower than a fucking glacier, is shit in the air, has zero aggression, and is a very poor finisher
Watching him run and kick makes my toes curl.
He's an eyesore
G Man, apologies if I didn't make make clear my meaning....
Justifiable criticism of Crouch is for his goal scoring record last year and the fact he didn't contribute many official assists - in this way, it is justifiable to have a go at Crouch.
The name calling and the rest of it, isn't clever and isn't what we want on this site.
I hope this clears up what I meant?!?
Guess it was me who didn't make myself clear in the first place. I should have said:
If the unholy trinity want to make a name for themselves by calling our players names, they should fuck off to Old Toilet where they will be appreciated.
Is this more justified criticism Rich?
Nope!
:handshake:
Leonard Crowley
05-08-06, 05:17 PM
Who are the unholy trinity? I assume Brendan and Ryan because they've been quoted but who's the other demon?
Who are the unholy trinity? I assume Brendan and Ryan because they've been quoted but who's the other demon?
You're hoping it's you, aren't you?
Reveal...
Garcia's success rate with passes 71%, Crouch's 65%.
Garcia's success rate with passes 71%, Crouch's 65%.
Meaningless stat. Been there, done it.
Ahhhh someone with a sensible post on Crouch!! Crouch was so important for the improvements we made last season and thats what Rafa all about players to improve the team not an individual super star!!
Good post mate, I would be interested to see how he gets on next season with 2 genuine wide players and a quick partner in Bellamy to get onto his flick ons and knock downs.
Some of the people on here seem to think they are a better judge of footballer than Rafa!!
Do you honestly believe Crouch was behind our improvement last season ? You're talking about a striker who misses 92% of his chances as being a major factor for us ? ... Give me a break.
If you really what to see what the difference for us last season was I'll give you a few hints :
1. Our best defence for 19 years.
2. Gerrard and Alonso fit all season, as opposed to both being out for three months each the year before.
3. A new Golden Gloves goalkeeper in Pepe Reina.
4. Momo Sissoko taking to the Premiership like a duck to water, he was invaluable.
5. Harry Kewell playing a much bigger part than previously, which gave us a perfect balance in the team.
6. No Pellegrino, we rested Sami a lot when we progressed through the CL in 04/05 and Pellegrino was worth a goal a game to the opposition.
7. We started games in 04/05 with Darren Potter and John Welsh in midfield. In 05/06 we didn't need either if them.
8. After our slow start to the season in 05/06 Rafa realised he needed two up front, which was a huge success for us. In 04/05 he stuck with 1 up front for the majority of the season, primarily because of injuries, but it cost us in the league.
Now before I finish I'm not saying Crouch didn't help us along the way, he did. But to suggest he was the main reason for our improvement is utterly ridiculous when you take into account even a few of the differences between the 04/05 season and the 05/06 season. Particularly when he's arguably a worse striker than the one he replaced.
Meaningless stat. Been there, done it.
Why is it meaningless ?
Why is it meaningless ?
Crouch leads the line and hence receives the ball when other players are not around, and often in complete isolation (there were times last season when Crouch was hideously isolated). It is to be expected that in this situation it is harder to offload the ball and thus harder to retain possession.
Garcia usually receives the ball with his head up and play in front of him.
That's why it's a meaningless stat. You've got to put into context.
Crouch leads the line and thus receives the ball when other players are not around, and often in complete isolation (there were times last season when Crouch was hideously isolated). It is to be expected that in this situation it is harder to offload the ball and thus harder to retain possession.
Garcia usually receives the ball with his head up and play in front of him.
That's why it's a meaningless stat. You've got to put into context.
By all means put in context, but even out of context it doesn;t make it meaningless.
When watching Crouch in the coming season, do me a favour and just take note of how many easy balls he wins in the air that he knocks to opposition defenders.
I think we're a much better and more fluid footballing team when he's not on the pitch. Fowler and Bellamy would be a much more dangerous proposition.
kurtangle01
06-08-06, 02:45 AM
i think crouch has improved a lot under rafa. i was apalled when he first signed but he grew on me as the season progressed. he's not the most gifted striker in the world but what he does is add a different dimension to the team. more stats than i care to worry about have been mentioned in this thread. a lot of them have been fair enough like he only scord 7 league goals and only had 4 assits but how many players did he pass the ball to that in turn assisted others? he holds the ball up well and i'm sure that this season will see him improve again.
By all means put in context, but even out of context it doesn;t make it meaningless.
When watching Crouch in the coming season, do me a favour and just take note of how many easy balls he wins in the air that he knocks to opposition defenders.
I think we're a much better and more fluid footballing team when he's not on the pitch. Fowler and Bellamy would be a much more dangerous proposition.
I certainly won't ever be taking notes during a Liverpool game. What kind of blert would do that? :)
Well you're entitled to your opinion, and you at least manage to articulate it without being obnoxious - which is a refreshing change in this thread. I disagree obviously, although I go along with Bellamy & Fowler being a potentially good partnership - but Crouch is crucial to us. Ask Steven Gerrard.
I certainly won't ever be taking notes during a Liverpool game. What kind of blert would do that? :)
Well you're entitled to your opinion, and you at least manage to articulate it without being obnoxious - which is a refreshing change in this thread. I disagree obviously, although I go along with Bellamy & Fowler being a potentially good partnership - but Crouch is crucial to us. Ask Steven Gerrard.
The same Steven Gerrard who was praying Rooney would be fit during the WC so Crouch didn't have to play ?:D
I certainly won't ever be taking notes during a Liverpool game. What kind of blert would do that? :)
Well you're entitled to your opinion, and you at least manage to articulate it without being obnoxious - which is a refreshing change in this thread. I disagree obviously, although I go along with Bellamy & Fowler being a potentially good partnership - but Crouch is crucial to us. Ask Steven Gerrard.
Actually I've a confession to make, I tried to take notes once of a Peter Crouch performance. The FA Cup Semi Final against Chelsea. The first 9 times he had the ball he gave it away 8 times. I gave up 15 mins into the game because it was depressing.
kurtangle01
06-08-06, 03:08 AM
The same Steven Gerrard who was praying Rooney would be fit during the WC so Crouch didn't have to play ?:D
no that was so he didn't have to play up front. wasn't it.
MrMichael
06-08-06, 03:35 AM
Is this the sort of place that thinks it's OK to call a LFC and England striker a "goofy lumering (whatever that means) impotent oaf" ?
That's just plain nasty. Goofy? Well that's relevant to selling him. Lumering? I presume he means lumbering and as we've seen he covered more ground than Stevie G. Impotent? Well Ryan must be speaking from personal experience unless he has seen Crouch's medical records. Again I fail to see how that is relevant to selling him. Oaf? Well that's also difficult word to define but it is quite clearly an insult put in there for the sake of it.
So please, enlighten me, is Crouch a goofy, lumering, impotent oaf and is this criticism justified. If you think it is then this site has gone down in my estimation.
For what its worth G_Man, I find the consistent use of such terminology extremely distasteful, and anyone who comes out with comments like that needs to look the word "supporter" up in the dictionary if you ask me. There are many perfectly valid and intelligent arguments to be made about whether or not Pater Crouch is good enough, or the right player, to be playing for Liverpool, quite a few of them made in the posts after yours and preceeding this one actually (good thread rescue Shaggy/Rosco/Kurt).
But the constant use of derogatory terminology to refer to specific LFC players is done more often to wind-up other fans than engender any form of actual debate, and in a football discussion forum should be discouraged as much as possible. In my opinion. :handshake:
Leonard Crowley
06-08-06, 07:36 AM
You're hoping it's you, aren't you?
Well, even a spurious notoriety is better than anonymity.
It isn't me though.
The same Steven Gerrard who was praying Rooney would be fit during the WC so Crouch didn't have to play ?:D
Or alternatively the same Gerrard who realises that Rooney is a world class talent. I would happily swap Crouch for someone in the same bracket, however that is not an option and I think that Crouch does an excellent job for the the team.
Or alternatively the same Gerrard who realises that Rooney is a world class talent. I would happily swap Crouch for someone in the same bracket, however that is not an option and I think that Crouch does an excellent job for the the team.
Crouchie does a great job for the team,its not about 11 world class players on a pitch,its about working together as a team and think crouch does that very well.
Leonard Crowley
06-08-06, 10:06 AM
I'm also concerned that there's something of a bizarre 'cult-type-thing' building up around Crouch. It seems that people who love him have undergone some kind of brainwashing or footballing epiphany and have been left utterly immune to reason when it comes to an honest discussion of his strengths and weaknesses.
It's not a 'cult-type-thing'. It's the symbolic importance of Crouch in modern Britain.
He's not particularly talented or good at doing what you'd expect of a striker BUT he IS a tryer and 'a team-player' and some British people think that this is the most important thing and is noble and virtuous in itself.
Other people, often Jonny Foreigners, think that personal results are the most important thing because every team member has personal targets to reach if the team is to prosper (goals in the case of Crouch). For these people, effort and attitude are only a means to an end.
So you see, our feelings about Crouch are closely linked with the the loss of our Empire and the rise of American global hegemony.
http://www.geocities.com/kaitsukotiin/nomore.JPG
red g, I agree with the sentiment but in general feel that all world class players have to be good players for the team. Ultimately this is what means that players like Zidane have incredibly successful careers. I find it hard to think of a player who most people would agree was world class who doesn't put in the work for the team.
I guess the point is that you need the right player to do the job you require. Crouch certainly did that last season. If he is to remain the right player as our team improves then he needs to add more goals to his game.
Why do 'supporters' feel the need to insult current players based on their appearance? Why are people so selective when quoting statistics? Why, instead of constructive argument, do some threads degrade into petty name-calling and one-upmanship? (ooer).
The facts are;
1. Peter Crouch was an integral part of our improvement last season. We achieved our highest Premiership points total with him, not in spite of him.
2. He is tall.
True, he is by no means quick or a prolific striker but does add to the team in other areas. His hold-up play is good and did contribute our defensive performance. 'Not what we want from a striker' you might say but this is how Rafa wants the team to work and that's the main thing. It's no good us saying he's crap because of his strike rate because in the end it's how well he plays the role the manager has assigned to him that counts. Rafa seems quite happy with him and, for now at least, that'll do for me.
Why do 'supporters' feel the need to insult current players based on their appearance? Why are people so selective when quoting statistics? Why, instead of constructive argument, do some threads degrade into petty name-calling and one-upmanship? (ooer).
The facts are;
1. Peter Crouch was an integral part of our improvement last season. We achieved our highest Premiership points total with him, not in spite of him.
2. He is tall.
True, he is by no means quick or a prolific striker but does add to the team in other areas. His hold-up play is good and did contribute our defensive performance. 'Not what we want from a striker' you might say but this is how Rafa wants the team to work and that's the main thing. It's no good us saying he's crap because of his strike rate because in the end it's how well he plays the role the manager has assigned to him that counts. Rafa seems quite happy with him and, for now at least, that'll do for me.
:handshake:
Why do 'supporters' feel the need to insult current players based on their appearance? Why are people so selective when quoting statistics? Why, instead of constructive argument, do some threads degrade into petty name-calling and one-upmanship? (ooer).
The facts are;
1. Peter Crouch was an integral part of our improvement last season. We achieved our highest Premiership points total with him, not in spite of him.
2. He is tall.
True, he is by no means quick or a prolific striker but does add to the team in other areas. His hold-up play is good and did contribute our defensive performance. 'Not what we want from a striker' you might say but this is how Rafa wants the team to work and that's the main thing. It's no good us saying he's crap because of his strike rate because in the end it's how well he plays the role the manager has assigned to him that counts. Rafa seems quite happy with him and, for now at least, that'll do for me.
good post :handshake:
The facts are;
1. Peter Crouch was an integral part of our improvement last season.
That's not a fact. That's merely an opinion. If you read my earlier post there's a whole host of reasons why we improved. Peter Crouch was not integral to our improvement last season.
It is a fact because he played in most of our Premiership games. I didn't say he was the sole reason for the improvement.
integral; adjective
necessary and important as a part of, or contained within, a whole.
mark1975
06-08-06, 12:32 PM
He was. People go on about his assist rate, to assist you need to have the final touch, but he was directly involved in a whole chunk of our goals last season.
He's not great mind, but anyone who thinks we finished 3rd and improved our points tally so dramatically, WITHOUT him being a major factor in it all, is wide of the mark.
It is a fact because he played in most of our Premiership games. I didn't say he was the sole reason for the improvement.
integral; adjective
necessary and important as a part of, or contained within, a whole.
Correct.
Delinquent
06-08-06, 12:43 PM
It is a fact because he played in most of our Premiership games. I didn't say he was the sole reason for the improvement.
integral; adjective
necessary and important as a part of, or contained within, a whole.
Posting a definition of "integral" still doesn't make your assertion any more than an opinion. There's nothing to suggest that we wouldn't have improved equally, had we made the other improvements that Rosco highlighted. Crouch's job was done nothing more than adequately, and even that is debatable. It is perfectly reasonable to suggest that the same job could have been done as well, if not better, by a whole host of other mediocre players.
It's true however, that his role was "necessary" for our improvement, but we shouldn't let that confuse us into thinking that he is of sufficient quality to lead a Liverpool front line.
Posting a definition of "integral" still doesn't make your assertion any more than an opinion. There's nothing to suggest that we wouldn't have improved equally, had we made the other improvements that Rosco highlighted. Crouch's job was done nothing more than adequately, and even that is debatable. It is perfectly reasonable to suggest that the same job could have been done as well, if not better, by a whole host of other mediocre players.
It's true however, that his role was "necessary" for our improvement, but we shouldn't let that confuse us into thinking that he is of sufficient quality to lead a Liverpool front line.
I posted a definition because it confirmed my point that it was a fact.
It was not my opinion that we improved last year, neither was it my opinion that Peter Crouch played in 31 Premiership games. Therefore Peter Crouch was necessary and important as a part of, or contained within the team that improved last season.
I was not talking about a hypothetical situation involving another nonexistent player, I was talking about what actually happened.
Delinquent
06-08-06, 01:01 PM
I posted a definition because it confirmed my point that it was a fact.
It was not my opinion that we improved last year, neither was it my opinion that Peter Crouch played in 31 Premiership games. Therefore Peter Crouch was necessary and important as a part of, or contained within the team that improved last season.
I was not talking about a hypothetical situation involving another nonexistent player, I was talking about what actually happened.
It confirmed nothing, I'm afraid. It's still an opinion as the answer is entirely subjective. I would post a definition but I don't think that's necessary.
Besides, I wasn't trying to be confrontational. I was merely pointing out that Crouch is an average player, who made nothing more than an adequate contribution.
jonymadness
06-08-06, 01:10 PM
I really cant believe some of the stuff on this, BUT, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
In my opinion, Crouch was one of our best players last season and we had a lot of good performers last year. OK so he has no pace and he isn't a goal scorer. Does anyone really think that Rafa is not aware of that? Rafa takes a very scientific approach to the game, he looks at it from every angle, he saw an area we were lacking in the year before and he purchased a player for that role.
Cisse, Moro, Baros, FSP, ALT, Mellor - not one of them can hold up the ball and bring their teamates into play, Crouch can. Would Stevie have scored so many goals last year without Peter? Think of his two goals against Newcastle. Perfect example of what Crouch gives us. For all the talk of Rooney and Owen and Walcott in the WC, Crouch showed in the 30 mins he played against Portugal how to play with 10 men, he held up the ball well and brought his teamates into play.
One other point is that he seems to get on with everyone and all the lads seem to have great time for him. Do not underestimate the importance of that type of player in the dressing room.
Rafa has shown he is not afraid to admit he was wrong and move players on if he thinks they're not up to it or he can get someone better - I believe that he won't be moving Crouchy on anytime soon.
I really cant believe some of the stuff on this, BUT, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
In my opinion, Crouch was one of our best players last season and we had a lot of good performers last year. OK so he has no pace and he isn't a goal scorer. Does anyone really think that Rafa is not aware of that? Rafa takes a very scientific approach to the game, he looks at it from every angle, he saw an area we were lacking in the year before and he purchased a player for that role.
Cisse, Moro, Baros, FSP, ALT, Mellor - not one of them can hold up the ball and bring their teamates into play, Crouch can. Would Stevie have scored so many goals last year without Peter? Think of his two goals against Newcastle. Perfect example of what Crouch gives us. For all the talk of Rooney and Owen and Walcott in the WC, Crouch showed in the 30 mins he played against Portugal how to play with 10 men, he held up the ball well and brought his teamates into play.
One other point is that he seems to get on with everyone and all the lads seem to have great time for him. Do not underestimate the importance of that type of player in the dressing room.
Rafa has shown he is not afraid to admit he was wrong and move players on if he thinks they're not up to it or he can get someone better - I believe that he won't be moving Crouchy on anytime soon.
fantastic post :handshake:
jonymadness
06-08-06, 01:20 PM
fantastic post :handshake:
I live to give... :handshake:
I really cant believe some of the stuff on this, BUT, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
In my opinion, Crouch was one of our best players last season and we had a lot of good performers last year. OK so he has no pace and he isn't a goal scorer. Does anyone really think that Rafa is not aware of that? Rafa takes a very scientific approach to the game, he looks at it from every angle, he saw an area we were lacking in the year before and he purchased a player for that role.
Cisse, Moro, Baros, FSP, ALT, Mellor - not one of them can hold up the ball and bring their teamates into play, Crouch can. Would Stevie have scored so many goals last year without Peter? Think of his two goals against Newcastle. Perfect example of what Crouch gives us. For all the talk of Rooney and Owen and Walcott in the WC, Crouch showed in the 30 mins he played against Portugal how to play with 10 men, he held up the ball well and brought his teamates into play.
One other point is that he seems to get on with everyone and all the lads seem to have great time for him. Do not underestimate the importance of that type of player in the dressing room.
Rafa has shown he is not afraid to admit he was wrong and move players on if he thinks they're not up to it or he can get someone better - I believe that he won't be moving Crouchy on anytime soon.
Top post. :handshake:
I didn't take it as confrontational and I'm not one to go over the top or make facetious comments if someone disagrees (as happened earlier in the thread). This is, after all, a discussion forum.
I don't want to bang on about the facts but I fail to see how my statement was subjective as I was careful not to base it on personal feelings.
Truth be told, I am far from convinced that Peter Crouch can get us any further towards the title but I cannot deny his contribution to the team last season. I am hopeful that our new signings and possibly a striker yet to sign will give us the impetus to push even further this season. My personal opinion is that for someone who actually had more shots on target than Darren Bent he should have converted a hell of a lot more than he did.
I am not posting in the hope of converting people into Crouch fans I just felt that some of the earlier attacks were harsh to say the least. If you believe that he was not important to the team then we'll agree to disagree. :handshake:
PS. This was a reply to delinquent but I started it, had some food, finished it and others got in there too.
I tried to stay clear of this thread, but alas the temptation got too great.
Yes Crouchie doesnt hit the back of the net with regularity, but he was a MAJOR influence in our season. How anyone can be so blind to that fact does my head in! Sure he isnt a pretty boy, he doesn't have fancy boots, he looks awkward and he isnt a great goalscorer...who bloody cares! He added so much to our play last season, he was an integral part of our fantastic season, and he is a favourite with the lads in the dressing room. He will only get better with our additions over the off-season.
Ryan you are an incredibly ignorant fan,do you actually support Liverpool? I havn't seen one of your posts that encourages one of our players. Thats incredibly sad. :shake: :whatever:
Hamstrung
06-08-06, 02:08 PM
That's not a fact. That's merely an opinion. If you read my earlier post there's a whole host of reasons why we improved. Peter Crouch was not integral to our improvement last season.
So he wasn't integral in getting us to the cup final for example?
what about this match when he set up one for Gerrard and scored the other if memory serves?
26 Dec, 2005 Newcastle United Barclays Premiership H 15:00 2-0
or indeed the return match where he won a penalty, scored and set up Gerrard? Plenty of other examples. To say Crouch had no impact on our improvement is daft. There were other reasons too, but Crouch was a big part of it.
Posting a definition of "integral" still doesn't make your assertion any more than an opinion. There's nothing to suggest that we wouldn't have improved equally, had we made the other improvements that Rosco highlighted. .
By the same token then, would it just be opinion to say that none of the signings had any impact on our higher league position, given you can't quantify that sort of improvement, unless 1 player wins x number of games on his own?
Course its opinion, but to deny the obvious to try and suit and argument is ignorant.
Delinquent
06-08-06, 02:48 PM
I didn't take it as confrontational and I'm not one to go over the top or make facetious comments if someone disagrees (as happened earlier in the thread). This is, after all, a discussion forum.
I don't want to bang on about the facts but I fail to see how my statement was subjective as I was careful not to base it on personal feelings.
Truth be told, I am far from convinced that Peter Crouch can get us any further towards the title but I cannot deny his contribution to the team last season. I am hopeful that our new signings and possibly a striker yet to sign will give us the impetus to push even further this season. My personal opinion is that for someone who actually had more shots on target than Darren Bent he should have converted a hell of a lot more than he did.
I am not posting in the hope of converting people into Crouch fans I just felt that some of the earlier attacks were harsh to say the least. If you believe that he was not important to the team then we'll agree to disagree. :handshake:
PS. This was a reply to delinquent but I started it, had some food, finished it and others got in there too.
Can't disagree with any of that. :handshake: Although I think many of the harsher critics bank on exactly this sort of reaction so I do question the worth of preaching about it.
I'm hopeful that Kuyt will sign as I feel he was Rafa's first choice when he signed Crouch anyway. Peter perhaps has his place as an impact player but when there are players out there that have all of his attributes AND score goals, you have to question his inclusion. He simply should not be the focal attacking point in a club that wants to challenge for top honours.
He came joint 4th with Sissoko in Morse's/Koptalk Insider's man of the match competition (other top 4 were Gerrard, Alonso, Sissoko.... and Kewell :oh: )
Cisse came in about 7th.
Knowing what some posters on Koptalk are like, there's NO WAY he'd have finished that high if he didn't actually play bloody well. :handshake:
PS Personally I hope we're not quite as reliant on him this year. This would involve buying a new striker, or Bellamy and Fowler having a great partnership :rock:
KopiteCalling
06-08-06, 05:14 PM
For what its worth G_Man, I find the consistent use of such terminology extremely distasteful, and anyone who comes out with comments like that needs to look the word "supporter" up in the dictionary if you ask me. There are many perfectly valid and intelligent arguments to be made about whether or not Pater Crouch is good enough, or the right player, to be playing for Liverpool, quite a few of them made in the posts after yours and preceeding this one actually (good thread rescue Shaggy/Rosco/Kurt).
But the constant use of derogatory terminology to refer to specific LFC players is done more often to wind-up other fans than engender any form of actual debate, and in a football discussion forum should be discouraged as much as possible. In my opinion. :handshake:
i happen to like him,but i think we need better from our strikers.but anyway,thats not important.i dont see the point of debating the merits of Crouch.
what i'm curious is why people get angry when criticisms of him are made.yes,perhaps some of them are on the malicious side when made about his physique,but what of it?
these are public figures and comments about them (whether good or nasty) are to be expected.i dont get why fans get so wound up?
and truth be told,its usually about Peter Crouch..i dont think we'd see many raging posters lambasting me if i were to say that Cisse is a tattoed wife-beater,or that Steve Finnan needs driving lessons, or that Riise needs to get a phone without SMS.
of course,i'd never say these things for the simple reason that they are very cruel.but i wouldbt be 'wound up' if someone else did.these are public figures,and can take care of themselves.
FowlerLeftFoot
06-08-06, 05:23 PM
agree with u, kopitecalling.
PS Personally I hope we're not quite as reliant on him this year. This would involve buying a new striker, or Bellamy and Fowler having a great partnership :rock:
I would agree with that.....think he has done very well last year, but if someeone else did come in, i would be more than happy
MrMichael
06-08-06, 06:43 PM
i happen to like him,but i think we need better from our strikers.but anyway,thats not important.i dont see the point of debating the merits of Crouch.
what i'm curious is why people get angry when criticisms of him are made.yes,perhaps some of them are on the malicious side when made about his physique,but what of it?
these are public figures and comments about them (whether good or nasty) are to be expected.i dont get why fans get so wound up?
and truth be told,its usually about Peter Crouch..i dont think we'd see many raging posters lambasting me if i were to say that Cisse is a tattoed wife-beater,or that Steve Finnan needs driving lessons, or that Riise needs to get a phone without SMS.
of course,i'd never say these things for the simple reason that they are very cruel.but i wouldbt be 'wound up' if someone else did.these are public figures,and can take care of themselves.
Fair points. My issue is mostly with a constant barrage of such comments which some people feel they have to make, the intent with which it is done, and the effect this has of denying any sensible debate and instead causing the rapid and inevitable deterioration of threads into fights.
The fact that the last page and a half of this thread contains 10 times more interesting and well thought out debate about Crouch than the first 3 or so demonstrates this amply I feel. :D
brendan
06-08-06, 06:46 PM
Top post. :handshake:
Yeah, but I have this sneaking suspicion that your love of Rodders is inextricably linked to his freakish height......
Yeah, but I have this sneaking suspicion that your love of Rodders is inextricably linked to his freakish height......
Explain why you describe his height as freakish.
Hamstrung
06-08-06, 10:30 PM
He's intimidated by tall people as he's onwy wittew.
Chelsea fans scream "FREAK!" at Crouch don't they....and, as we all know, most Chavs are scumbags of the highest order.
Connection? :)
He's intimidated by tall people as he's onwy wittew.
It does seem to be an issue for poor Brendan. We should all be more supportive to Brendan and help him come to terms with his hang-up in a caring, sympathetic atmosphere.
I hear your cry for help Brendan, send me a PM if you want to work through your hang-up and I can put you in touch with a professional :handshake:
Hamstrung
06-08-06, 11:17 PM
He's not here - he's off doing research
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060728125320AAxgo9d
It does seem to be an issue for poor Brendan. We should all be more supportive to Brendan and help him come to terms with his hang-up in a caring, sympathetic atmosphere.
I hear your cry for help Brendan, send me a PM if you want to work through your hang-up and I can put you in touch with a professional :handshake:
Brendan doesn't need me to speak on his behalf, but I reckon Brendan's problem with Crouch has nothing to do with his "freakish height" and more to do with his freakish ability to miss the easiest of chances. (Opta Stats: he failed to score with 92% of the chances provided to him in the league.)
We simply can't afford that kind of profligacy in front of goal if we want to be serious title challengers.
Hamstrung
07-08-06, 09:44 AM
I don't recall him regularly missing easy chances last season. He had a few games where nothing would go in for him, but overall I don't think that was really an issue.
Can you supply a link for those stats - I'd like to compare them with other strikers.
brendan
07-08-06, 09:49 AM
I don't recall him regularly missing easy chances last season
What? Oh come on, you're a Crouch fan - that's fine - but his finishing last season was all over the place like a mad woman's piss.
To claim that you can't remember him missing any easy chances is simply ridiculous.
Hamstrung
07-08-06, 10:02 AM
I am a Liverpool fan. I think Crouch is a good player - I don't have posters of him on my wall.
As I said, he had games, such as the Benfica home game, where he couldn't score no matter what he did but I don't think it was particularly a feature generally. I'd like to see those stats for myself. FWIW I think when his confidence is up he is a very capable finisher.
Of course, when you want him to fail, you only see the misses.
What? Oh come on, you're a Crouch fan - that's fine - but his finishing last season was all over the place like a mad woman's piss.
To claim that you can't remember him missing any easy chances is simply ridiculous.
iremember him missing a few....as did owen, fowler,rvn, Henry etc!! all strikers miss ffs!! ok Crouch may be far from clinical.....but when he is on form he does have a good eye for a goal.
brendan
07-08-06, 10:05 AM
iremember him missing a few....as did owen, fowler,rvn, Henry etc!! all strikers miss ffs!! ok Crouch may be far from clinical.....but when he is on form he does have a good eye for a goal.
Yes of course all strikers miss, but you are not helping whatever argument you have left by listing those strikers, because they also SCORE lots.
I am a Liverpool fan. I think Crouch is a good player - I don't have posters of him on my wall.
As I said, he had games, such as the Benfica home game, where he couldn't score no matter what he did but I don't think it was particularly a feature generally. I'd like to see those stats for myself. FWIW I think when his confidence is up he is a very capable finisher.
Of course, when you want him to fail, you only see the misses.
Mate, he scored 7 league goals last year. He didn't even get one in the Champions League.
He was a starter in just about every game going, so he obviously had chances to score, but just didn't.
I'm all for hearing arguments about his workrate, target-man prowess, and general nuisance factor, but to claim he's a "very capable finisher" when his records comprehensively prove he's not, is frankly, blinkered and silly.
Hamstrung
07-08-06, 10:08 AM
Mick Quinn used to score lots, let buy him
http://www.arsenal.com/Images/q/quinn_mick.jpg
No more stupid than your argument.....
brendan
07-08-06, 10:09 AM
Mick Quinn used to score lots, let buy him
http://www.arsenal.com/Images/q/quinn_mick.jpg
No more stupid than your argument.....
It is more stupid. I think that's pretty obvious.
Yes of course all strikers miss, but you are not helping whatever argument you have left by listing those strikers, because they also SCORE lots.
But crouch doesnt play in the same position as the above? he wont get as many chances,so wont score as many goals. If we are discussing the above strikers, they all probably get more chances than crouch, miss more and score more.
Crouch has a good eye for goal, but unlike the aforementioned strikers he isnt 'clinical' but does have other attributes that the others dont have.
Hamstrung
07-08-06, 10:12 AM
It is more stupid. I think that's pretty obvious.
Not really, Crouch doesn't score enough so get someone who does.
oh, and he's really really tall a looks a bit like Rodney from only Fools and Horses.
Completely ignoring anything and everything else.
'bout covers it doesn't it?
Not really, Crouch doesn't score enough so get someone who does.
oh, and he's really really tall a looks a bit like Rodney from only Fools and Horses.
Completely ignoring anything and everything else.
'bout covers it doesn't it?
:)
I think that I have to side with brendan and ryan on this one. In general Crouch does not finish like a born goalscorer. I can't see the point in debating what is obviously the truth.
However much like Heskey before him when he is confident his finishing improves. Hopefully now he is settled in he will have more confidence and improve to about 15 league goals - which is a reasonable target for a second striker. I think we can all agree that expecting Crouch to perform the role that Henry or RvN have for their clubs in the past is only going to lead to disappointment.
I think that I have to side with brendan and ryan on this one. In general Crouch does not finish like a born goalscorer. I can't see the point in debating what is obviously the truth.
However much like Heskey before him when he is confident his finishing improves. Hopefully now he is settled in he will have more confidence and improve to about 15 league goals - which is a reasonable target for a second striker. I think we can all agree that expecting Crouch to perform the role that Henry or RvN have for their clubs in the past is only going to lead to disappointment.
Mate, he got 7 league goals last year despite playing nearly every game.
With a fit Fowler, Bellamy, and possibly somebody else to choose from this season, Crouch's appearances are almost certainly going to be fewer than last season.
With that in mind, do you honestly think he'll double his tally of goals from last year?
I don't.
Hamstrung
07-08-06, 10:23 AM
Mate, he scored 7 league goals last year. He didn't even get one in the Champions League.
He was a starter in just about every game going, so he obviously had chances to score, but just didn't.
I'm all for hearing arguments about his workrate, target-man prowess, and general nuisance factor, but to claim he's a "very capable finisher" when his records comprehensively prove he's not, is frankly, blinkered and silly.
I'd agree that his record isn't/wasn't great over the course of his career (for which there are a number of reasons) but I think it will improve. He obviously had a bad start where he didn't score for months, but once he did and started to feel like he belonged at a club like Liverpool I saw an improvement.
I suppose we'll see how it goes next season, but I can only see his goals record improving
I'd agree that his record isn't/wasn't great over the course of his career (for which there are a number of reasons) but I think it will improve. He obviously had a bad start where he didn't score for months, but once he did and started to feel like he belonged at a club like Liverpool I saw an improvement.
I suppose we'll see how it goes next season, but I can only see his goals record improving
Not so sure.
As mentioned previously, he won't get the same run of games to 'get going' this year due to the increased competition on the striking deparrment, and he's very much a confidence player.
Lat year we had no alternative but to stand by him during that 18 game barren spell, this year he won't be afforded such luxuries.
If anything, he could even score less this year, what with his fewer opportunities, and quite possibly a greater need for him to become 'provider' for the likes of Bellamy, Fowler, Defoe (?) rather than 'finisher'...
I'd agree that his record isn't/wasn't great over the course of his career (for which there are a number of reasons) but I think it will improve. He obviously had a bad start where he didn't score for months, but once he did and started to feel like he belonged at a club like Liverpool I saw an improvement.
I suppose we'll see how it goes next season, but I can only see his goals record improving
But that's only because it really couldn't get any worse isn't it ?
But that's only because it really couldn't get any worse isn't it ?
bit harsh.....it could be worse,he could be Jon stead
Hamstrung
07-08-06, 10:47 AM
But that's only because it really couldn't get any worse isn't it ?
You thought about that reply.
Are you going to provide those stats - I am genuinely interested in seeing them.
differing opinions are great and they obviously addto forums such as these, but there is one man whose opinion i value more than anyones one here for his footballing brain and thats Rafa, he seems to Rate him for some reason i have no idea why according to some ?! cant score, rubbish link up play, no control and he is a freak......but hey what does Rafa know?
bit harsh.....it could be worse,he could be Jon stead
Jon Stead actually kept the ball better than Crouch last season according to the Opta stats, so if you really love non goalscoring strikers who hold up the ball he's your man.
You thought about that reply.
Are you going to provide those stats - I am genuinely interested in seeing them.
They're the Opta stats mate, I'll let you go search for them because quite frankly I couldn't be bothered.
Hamstrung
07-08-06, 11:00 AM
Tried but I couldn't find anything that supported what you said. I think if you make a comment based on stats you should maybe show them - I'm old fashioned like that. I am happy to accept they are right but would be interested in seeing them in context.
And isn't suggesting the stats say Stead was better than Crouch just weakening the argument for using them?
Jon Stead actually kept the ball better than Crouch last season according to the Opta stats, so if you really love non goalscoring strikers who hold up the ball he's your man.
mmmmm perhaps mclaren will think about calling stead up instead of Crouch then. :shake:
Opta stats dont show howintelligently crouch uses the ball does it?
I really wish someone would subsribe to an Opta feed so that they could tell us what the actual stats they quote are. It bugs the hell out of me.
If I could choose a forum rule it would be no quoting stats without a link so that others can at least have a look and try and establish what is being measured and in what context.
mmmmm perhaps mclaren will think about calling stead up instead of Crouch then. :shake:
Opta stats dont show howintelligently crouch uses the ball does it?
I don't think he will, non goal scoring strikers aren't a valuable commodity.
OPTA is one of the more pointless features of the modern game, IMO.
brendan
07-08-06, 11:14 AM
OPTA is one of the more pointless features of the modern game, IMO.
That would explain why every club in the Premiership uses them.
That would explain why every club in the Premiership uses them.
Yes but they, presumably, take context into consideration. The point I'm making is that bare stats aren't much good to anybody and they only tell part of the story.
I don't think he will, non goal scoring strikers aren't a valuable commodity.
apart from in the liverpool team ..... :handshake:
Delinquent
07-08-06, 11:20 AM
Yes but they, presumably, take context into consideration. The point I'm making is that bare stats aren't much good to anybody and they only tell part of the story.
But when accompanied by visual evidence, they can be a very useful tool. Which makes them a great deal less than "pointless", no?
OPTA is one of the more pointless features of the modern game, IMO.
I think it has certainly been to the detriment of discussion and journalism. I'm sure it helps coaches who use it as part of a more broad and well informed approach.
On forums it has lead purely to people being able to write FACT at the end of subjective opinions more. Journalist have adopted much the same mentality except are a little more subtle.
brendan
07-08-06, 11:21 AM
I don't think he will, non goal scoring strikers aren't a valuable commodity.
I think arch-politician McClaren will bring back two or three players (Defoe, Bent, Ashton) as he knows that their non-appearance at the WC was unpopular in many quarters. He'll start with two out of those three, I think.
I'll be very surprised to see Crouch start.
But when accompanied by visual evidence, they can be a very useful tool. Which makes them a great deal less than "pointless", no?
I mean pointless in terms of them being quoted by journalists or even fans on forums. Sky Sports are particularly adept at "abusing the stat".
For coaches, football analysts and the like, then fine...it's a valuable tool.
Hamstrung
07-08-06, 11:23 AM
I'll be surprised if he doesn't start with Crouch.
Ashton - Defoe would seem the natural partnership. I welcome anything that forces an England manager to look at having multiple options / styles of play. I hope this is something McClaren brings to the table. We need to learn to use our squad more fully and use the right players for the right games.
brendan
07-08-06, 11:25 AM
I think it has certainly been to the detriment of discussion and journalism. I'm sure it helps coaches who use it as part of a more broad and well informed approach.
On forums it has lead purely to people being able to write FACT at the end of subjective opinions more. Journalist have adopted much the same mentality except are a little more subtle.
It certainly makes the contribution of players like Crouch much harder to qualify, as the "quantify" bit of the equation is there to see.
Goals? There in black & white. Seven in the Premiership. Well, what about assists? The flick-ons, the set-up play? Oh. Four. All season. Possession? Oh, that doesn't look great either.
Then it becomes "secondary" assists, "nuisance" factor and "holding the ball further up the pitch".
It's not hard to work out why some are, shall we say, less than convinced.
Peter Delvechio
07-08-06, 11:27 AM
I think arch-politician McClaren will bring back two or three players (Defoe, Bent, Ashton) as he knows that their non-appearance at the WC was unpopular in many quarters. He'll start with two out of those three, I think.
I'll be very surprised to see Crouch start.
McClaren isn't an 'arch'-anything Brendan.
Except maybe an 'arch-ginge'.
Ashton - Defoe would seem the natural partnership. I welcome anything that forces an England manager to look at having multiple options / styles of play. I hope this is something McClaren brings to the table. We need to learn to use our squad more fully and use the right players for the right games.
think he will start Rooney and Defoe.
brendan
07-08-06, 11:32 AM
McClaren isn't an 'arch'-anything Brendan.
Except maybe an 'arch-ginge'.
Dodgy nashers, too. And I hate his haircut.
I've seen him do a team-talk/ tactics thingy (through a hotel window) and he looked like an Area salesman for Vileda Mops doing a pitch.
Mind you, the mop salesman might have done a better job, as they threw away a 4-1 lead at Norwich about three hours later.
It certainly makes the contribution of players like Crouch much harder to qualify, as the "quantify" bit of the equation is there to see.
Goals? There in black & white. Seven in the Premiership. Well, what about assists? The flick-ons, the set-up play? Oh. Four. All season. Possession? Oh, that doesn't look great either.
Then it becomes "secondary" assists, "nuisance" factor and "holding the ball further up the pitch".
It's not hard to work out why some are, shall we say, less than convinced.
Personally I prefer the Spanish defenition of assist. The idea that a piece of play that contributes to the making of a goal scoring opportunity is what an assist is. I know this may well add further subjectivity but it does eliminate the fact that Crouch's low assist rate can easily be attributed to the crap finishing of our squad as a whole last season.
The possession stat is one I really need to see what they are measuring.
I'm quite willing to see why people are unconvinced by Crouch. I think he is a good player. I just dislike the way the debate often centres around what people hold to be indisputable facts - when the only real fact is that he scored 7 league goals and no one is argueing that Crouch has been a prolific striker.
Hamstrung
07-08-06, 12:38 PM
think he will start Rooney and Defoe.
Rooney's banned.
Stats are useful but if used in isolation to back up a point can be completely meaningless. That's true if someone is using them to prove a player is good or bad. I would think if you rumagged through the opta stats you'd find some that would suggest Gerrard was ineffective at certain things - I don't remember him being ineffective in any way.
With regard to Crouch, I know what I see, and I don't see a poor footballer.
Its no coincidence that the likes of Gerrard and Carragher rave about him at every opportunity - they know what he offers. They don't have to do it - they could easily keep their mouths shut.
Agreed Hamstrung. Gerrard is notoriously hard to please, and his frustration at our lack of quality in recent years has often been written all over his face. I think Stevie's admiration for Crouch speaks volumes for his value to the side.
Hamstrung
15-08-06, 01:03 PM
I think arch-politician McClaren will bring back two or three players (Defoe, Bent, Ashton) as he knows that their non-appearance at the WC was unpopular in many quarters. He'll start with two out of those three, I think.
I'll be very surprised to see Crouch start.
According to your favourite site, he is.
rubyred
15-08-06, 01:14 PM
I can't make up my mind what I think of Peter Crouch.
On the one hand he has shown some great touches on the ball, can hold up play well, and manages to get into scoring position regularly.
On the other hand I have no confidence that when he has a go at goal he is going to score. He is incredibly weak, has no power behind his headers and often shoots directly at the keeper. He also has an annoying habit of falling over in the box every time he's touched and looking at the ref for a decision, and has no pace.
I don't think he is good enough, or reliable enough to be considered as first choice striker for us, and hope very much that we improve in that area before the transfer window closes.
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