Is there...

[LadyRed]

...any such thing as freedom of speech/thought?

Or can you only say things...providing their not offensive to anyone?

I have to say, I am one of those very PC people, I can't help but challenge people if they say somehting that I think is ignorant. If only to have a discussion to establish why someone would think as they do.

However, you only have to look at popular media to see how many people fall from grace for saying something that maybe ignorant or offensive.

So are we really free to say and think as we please...?

[DeeGame]

yes now piss off :crackoff:

[KK07]

...any such thing as freedom of speech/thought?

Or can you only say things...providing their not offensive to anyone?

I have to say, I am one of those very PC people, I can't help but challenge people if they say somehting that I think is ignorant. If only to have a discussion to establish why someone would think as they do.

However, you only have to look at popular media to see how many people fall from grace for saying something that maybe ignorant or offensive.

So are we really free to say and think as we please...?

I'm sorry you can't discuss this in the Chat Chat forum please move it to the Library,where you are Free to discuss serious topics such as this.


Guess that's a no then LR. :crackoff:

[Reece]

Are you talking about freedom of speech/thought for women or everyone? :eyebrow:

[KK07]

Are you talking about freedom of speech/thought for women or everyone? :eyebrow:

Lets not be silly now Reece,she meant men of course.

Women can't be allowed say and think what they want,think of the state the world would be in if we allowed it!!

I mean we wouldn't have signed Dirk Kuyt for starters,seeing as he not good looking enough for Liverpool.



:steps away from the wooden spoon and twirling shite there in:

[LadyRed]

Does it have to be moved?

Oooh I've only just discovered the Library...I wondered why General Chat was so dim....kinda makes more sense now.

[DeeGame]

Does it have to be moved?

Oooh I've only just discovered the Library...I wondered why General Chat was so dim....kinda makes more sense now.

:haha:

[LadyRed]

Are you talking about freedom of speech/thought for women or everyone? :eyebrow:

I meant everyone.


They warned me about you...

[KK07]

Does it have to be moved?

Oooh I've only just discovered the Library...I wondered why General Chat was so dim....kinda makes more sense now.

I don't care FFS!! :crackoff:

I don't frequent that place you speak of!! :finger:

[KK07]

I meant everyone.


They warned me about you...

:haha:

:I told you, didn't I,be careful he's not alone,TPC:

[Neil Young]

Kenneth, now this thread's been moved into the Library, you'd better leave. You know you're not allowed in here as you make the place dim.

[DeeGame]

:haha:

:I told you, didn't I,be careful he's not alone,TPC:

he isn't

[DeeGame]

Kenneth, now this thread's been moved into the Library, you'd better leave. You know you're not allowed in here as you make the place dim.

quite right sir

[KK07]

Kenneth, now this thread's been moved into the Library, you'd better leave. You know you're not allowed in here as you make the place dim.

quite right sir

Ok,c'mon Dee,daddy said we can't play here anymore. :grr:

[Neil Young]

:haha:

[Reece]

I meant everyone.


They warned me about you...

I'm touched :)

get off my leg Kenny!

[LadyRed]

I'm not smiling....

[DeeGame]

Ok,c'mon Dee,daddy said we can't play here anymore. :grr:

Neil is my daddy :jaw:




















:cry:

[Paul.S]

Anyone see that with the big argee bargee over the cartoons of Mohammed. And Some van driver shouted something, and was grabbed by the police, and he turns to the copper and says -

"Freedom of speach huh!?"

Brilliant.

[Neil Young]

Neil is my daddy :jaw:

:cry:
Imagine how disappointed I feel.

[DeeGame]

Imagine how disappointed I feel.

Daddy :woot:

[Snigger]

...any such thing as freedom of speech/thought?

Or can you only say things...providing their not offensive to anyone?

I have to say, I am one of those very PC people, I can't help but challenge people if they say somehting that I think is ignorant. If only to have a discussion to establish why someone would think as they do.

However, you only have to look at popular media to see how many people fall from grace for saying something that maybe ignorant or offensive.

So are we really free to say and think as we please...?

Get back in the kitchen and shut your trap - Lesbian.













:D just kidding - I think the PC brigade have gone over board - most people understand what is acceptable to the majority of people. There are precious people who get upset over stupid things simply because they can and maybe because they enjoy looking down their noses at other people. We are busy inventing new words these days as some older words with totally innocent meaning have been corrupted and exagerated into being unacceptable.

[Neil Young]

Daddy :woot:
I suppose you want money for credit, hmm? :rolleyes:

[Red Chilli]

...any such thing as freedom of speech/thought?

Or can you only say things...providing their not offensive to anyone?

I have to say, I am one of those very PC people, I can't help but challenge people if they say somehting that I think is ignorant. If only to have a discussion to establish why someone would think as they do.

However, you only have to look at popular media to see how many people fall from grace for saying something that maybe ignorant or offensive.

So are we really free to say and think as we please...?

There is freedom of thought until someone invents a new thought-reading machine at which point I imagine that will be censored too.
As for freedom of speech, I suppose there isn't such a thing anymore. It's a shame in my opinion because if there is freedom of speech then you get the opportunity to challenge people who do hold ignorant views. If they can't articulate those views then no-one knows they hold them and you can't challenge them and reason with them.
I'm sure other people have a different opinion though.

I think there is a differnce between freedom of speech and political correctness. You descrieb yourself as being a very PC person so do you agree with censorship then?

[DeeGame]

I suppose you want money for credit, hmm? :rolleyes:

Yes please :rock:

[Reece]

I'm not smiling....

http://www.samaritans.org.uk/

[KK07]

I'm not smiling....

Is Lady blue? :eyebrow:

[DeeGame]

Is Lady blue? :eyebrow:

:haha:

She'll be turning into Lady Green soon :crackoff:

[LadyRed]

There is freedom of thought until someone invents a new thought-reading machine at which point I imagine that will be censored too.
As for freedom of speech, I suppose there isn't such a thing anymore. It's a shame in my opinion because if there is freedom of speech then you get the opportunity to challenge people who do hold ignorant views. If they can't articulate those views then no-one knows they hold them and you can't challenge them and reason with them.
I'm sure other people have a different opinion though.

I think there is a differnce between freedom of speech and political correctness. You descrieb yourself as being a very PC person so do you agree with censorship then?


I am a huge believer of censorship for children and young people. By this I mean teenagers too. So things like a 14 year old watching a movie like Scarface and listening to idiots like 50cent, I have issues with.

Not so much of an issue for adults.

I'm PC in the sense that I don't find the need to make ignorantly generalising comments and feel I *have* to challenge comments that I think are small minded. I think you raise a valid point about poeple's inability to articulate themselves, as often this is the cause of offence, more so than what one is actually trying to say.

[LadyRed]

:D just kidding - I think the PC brigade have gone over board - most people understand what is acceptable to the majority of people. There are precious people who get upset over stupid things simply because they can and maybe because they enjoy looking down their noses at other people. We are busy inventing new words these days as some older words with totally innocent meaning have been corrupted and exagerated into being unacceptable.


I think there's a difference between being ignorant and just not being aware of what the lastest PC term for something is. Which gets very silly sometimes.

I'm a Youth Worker (well kind of) and we are reqularly sent new guide lines by GOSE about what the PC terms for things are, for example someone who is mixed race is now known as someone who has Dual heritage.

[LadyRed]

:haha:

She'll be turning into Lady Green soon :crackoff:


Why green...?

Certainly not Blue, amigo!

[KK07]

Fuck this for a game of soldiers!! :crackoff:

I'm outta here,you coming back to chat chat Dee mate? :eyebrow:

[DeeGame]

Fuck this for a game of soldiers!! :crackoff:

I'm outta here,you coming back to chat chat Dee mate? :eyebrow:

Absolutely :rock:

[Neil Young]

Yes please :rock:
Here's a tenner. Now run along and play nicely with Kenneth and your new friend Marky.

By the way, I saw your antics in the stadium thread and if I find out Mr Caco has had to deal with you again I'll ground you for a week.

[Red Chilli]

I am a huge believer of censorship for children and young people. By this I mean teenagers too. So things like a 14 year old watching a movie like Scarface and listening to idiots like 50cent, I have issues with.

Not so much of an issue for adults.

I'm PC in the sense that I don't find the need to make ignorantly generalising comments and feel I *have* to challenge comments that I think are small minded. I think you raise a valid point about poeple's inability to articulate themselves, as often this is the cause of offence, more so than what one is actually trying to say.

Censorship for vulnerable people i.e children is a different kettle of fish in my opinion and I agree with you about that.

Let me pose a hypothetical scenario for you: If everyone had to be politically correct at all times then thy might hold racist, sexist and down right dangerous views but they keep them to themselves in public.
Now I think that is wrong, someone holding those ideas needs to be challenged, not physically or aggressively, but intellectually.

[KK07]

Here's a tenner. Now run along and play nicely with Kenneth and your new friend Marky.

By the way, I saw your antics in the stadium thread and if I find out Mr Caco has had to deal with you again I'll ground you for a week.

:haha:

It's funny cause it's true!! :rock:

[DeeGame]

Here's a tenner. Now run along and play nicely with Kenneth and your new friend Marky.

Thanks Dad :rock:

Oh by the way marky aint my friend :handshake:


By the way, I saw your antics in the stadium thread and if I find out Mr Caco has had to deal with you again I'll ground you for a week.


It was not me it was marky & mikeg - i just laughed :handshake:

[Neil Young]

Thanks Dad :rock:

Oh by the way marky aint my friend :handshake:




It was not me it was marky & mikeg - i just laughed :handshake:
It's not nice to try to get other people into trouble.

Note to self: have a word with mikeg's dad, Jaco (or MikeK as he used to be called).

[LadyRed]

Censorship for vulnerable people i.e children is a different kettle of fish in my opinion and I agree with you about that.

Let me pose a hypothetical scenario for you: If everyone had to be politically correct at all times then thy might hold racist, sexist and down right dangerous views but they keep them to themselves in public.
Now I think that is wrong, someone holding those ideas needs to be challenged, not physically or aggressively, but intellectually.


That's why I said the bit about freedom of thought.

Is it okay to think something as long as you don't hurt anyone? I guess it's a funny one, as you can't regulate it.

I attended a training course delievered by a Counseller, and he was talking about a Client he had that had thoughts of murder and suicide and would talk to his counseller in detail about them. As far as the counseller was concerned he was providing him with a non destructive environment to explore his thoughts. In my opinion, as I told him, if he wasn't challenging these ideas, he was colluding with them and consequently making them stronger.

Anyway, this client of his eventually did commit suicide. He was 21.

[Kronenburg1892]

When people talk about "freedom of speach" they often forget about the right to criticise. It's a double edged sword.

[Red Chilli]

That's why I said the bit about freedom of thought.

Is it okay to think something as long as you don't hurt anyone? I guess it's a funny one, as you can't regulate it.

I attended a training course delievered by a Counseller, and he was talking about a Client he had that had thoughts of murder and suicide and would talk to his counseller in detail about them. As far as the counseller was concerned he was providing him with a non destructive environment to explore his thoughts. In my opinion, as I told him, if he wasn't challenging these ideas, he was colluding with them and consequently making them stronger.

Anyway, this client of his eventually did commit suicide. He was 21.

Sad, but that's more of a psychological illness and that person ought to have been referred for medical intervention. Easy to say with hindsight and I suppose that counseller might have been trying to build up a rapport beore challenging those thoughts.
What do I know, I'm no expert on that :haha: but I guess there's more than one way to skin a cat (so to speak)

[Snigger]

you have to fight. For your right. to paaaaaarley



see what I did there.

[glynner]

I think there's a difference between being ignorant and just not being aware of what the lastest PC term for something is. Which gets very silly sometimes.

I'm a Youth Worker (well kind of) and we are reqularly sent new guide lines by GOSE about what the PC terms for things are, for example someone who is mixed race is now known as someone who has Dual heritage.

For me a lot of PC shit should be common sense. Offensive terminology is kind of like the legal description of pornography - I cannot define it, but I know it when I see it.

In your example, clearly calling that kid a half breed is unacceptable (that should be common sense) but other, sometimes innocent terms to describe his/her heritage or background often fall foul of the PC brigade. That's when freedom of speech becomes a big deal.

In the US last week, a politican named Joe Biden described Barack Obama as "articulate", which created a mini-firestorm as the implicatipn was seen to be that African-Americans are usually inarticluate. Now, I don't know what context Biden truly intended his comment to be in - maybe he did indeed intend it as a backhanded compliment - but it's the kind of OTT reaction that is sometimes un-necessary.

[Red Chilli]

you have to fight. For your right. to paaaaaarley



see what I did there.


very good :D

[Neil Young]

There are limits on free speech (thanks for not invoking them while I got my two little troublemakers out of here). Shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre is the well-known one.

As for PC, of course it gets overused and exaggerated but also it has played a part in some steps forward. The trouble with it is that calling something PC is trying to stick it with a pejorative label as though that makes the case. I think it's very telling that these days "PC" is a term of abuse and "non-PC" is claimed as a badge of honour. What it tells us is that the opponents of political correctness are happy to use the label because it's an easy way to start to discredit it.

In the last ten years I've heard plenty of people use the N-word (there's no need to say it, we all know what it is). Are they proud to be non-PC too?

[glynner]

Depends on the context it's used in, and who says it.

Let's face it - if you are white, you don't have any business using the word.

I think you'll find plenty of black people who disagree about the use of the n word.

[fah-q]

What about the L word? not enough girl on girl action in my book

[fah-q]

Thats some good free speechin'

[Snigger]

There are limits on free speech (thanks for not invoking them while I got my two little troublemakers out of here). Shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre is the well-known one.

As for PC, of course it gets overused and exaggerated but also it has played a part in some steps forward. The trouble with it is that calling something PC is trying to stick it with a pejorative label as though that makes the case. I think it's very telling that these days "PC" is a term of abuse and "non-PC" is claimed as a badge of honour. What it tells us is that the opponents of political correctness are happy to use the label because it's an easy way to start to discredit it.

In the last ten years I've heard plenty of people use the N-word (there's no need to say it, we all know what it is). Are they proud to be non-PC too?

Most times I hear the N word it's actually used by a black guy on another black guy (can I say black?) and in a friendly way, I can't remember the last time I heard it used as an insult or in anger. Would you consider that non PC, racist or anything else. If a gay guy takes the piss out of other gay people is he homophobic? Is it Ok for insults of this kind to be used in public if within the minority community the word is designed or has morphed into to insult? or should the rules apply to everyone?

What d'ya think homo?

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

I pondered long and hard on a slightly witty, intelligent response to the original poster. Then after reading all the responses all I could think of was this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfu0aV1dkHw

[Abdul Alhazred]

Depends on the context it's used in, and who says it.

Let's face it - if you are white, you don't have any business using the word.


You're right about context but I'd disagree with your second point: check the OED definitions of the word, not all of them have any reference to race or colour.

[Neil Young]

Most times I hear the N word it's actually used by a black guy on another black guy (can I say black?) and in a friendly way, I can't remember the last time I heard it used as an insult or in anger. Would you consider that non PC, racist or anything else. If a gay guy takes the piss out of other gay people is he homophobic? Is it Ok for insults of this kind to be used in public if within the minority community the word is designed or has morphed into to insult? or should the rules apply to everyone?

What d'ya think homo?
It's about the context. Obviously it depends who uses it to whom, where they are, who else is about, etc. As glynnr said, there aren't any hard-and-fast rules - it's only really about being sensitive to others, it's not a big deal in my book.

By the way, genus names are capitalised and are usually followed by the species name e.g. Homo sapiens.

:handshake:

[glynner]

You're right about context but I'd disagree with your second point: check the OED definitions of the word, not all of them have any reference to race or colour.

Ok, for kicks - can you put the word in a sentence where it's ok for a Caucasian to use ?

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

It's about the context. Obviously it depends who uses it to whom, where they are, who else is about, etc. As glynnr said, there aren't any hard-and-fast rules - it's only really about being sensitive to others, it's not a big deal in my book.

By the way, genus names are capitalised and are usually followed by the species name e.g. Homo sapiens.

:handshake:

Hello Linnæus! :handshake:

[Neil Young]

Hello Linnæus! :handshake:
Hello Mr Canis canis. :handshake:

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

Ok, for kicks - can you put the word in a sentence where it's ok for a Caucasian to use ?

Jim Davidson managed to use 'Chalky' for years without complaint.

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

Hello Mr Canis canis. :handshake:

Hello Mr. Cyclosa neilensis

[glynner]

I loved when Jim Davidson used to say "Excuse me, I've got to park my breakfast" :crackoff:

[Abdul Alhazred]

Ok, for kicks - can you put the word in a sentence where it's ok for a Caucasian to use ?

"I've been working like a ****** over the last few weeks"

"Woman is the ****** of the world"

"One more widow, one less white ******"

So no, apparently I can't put it any sentence at all.

[glynner]

"I've been working like a ****** over the last few weeks"

So no, apparently I can't put it any sentence at all.

Dunno about you, but I would feel less than comfortable uttering that sentence in front of a group of people.

Incidentally, if it's ok to use in a sentence, why did you blank it out ?

[Abdul Alhazred]

Dunno about you, but I would feel less than comfortable uttering that sentence in front of a group of people.

Incidentally, if it's ok to use in a sentence, why did you blank it out ?

Agreed: but it should be my call as whether I say it, and that of any listener to judge what I've said. Know your audience.

dons pointy hat, grabs cross and petrol can

As for blanking it out, it was the forum software which did that: hence the comment 'So no, apparently I can't put it any sentence at all.'

[Beastie Suarez]

Why, if you can give a group of people a characteristic that is good, lets take the French for example that they make good lovers, we can't also call them snail eating surrender monkeys?

[Abdul Alhazred]

Ok, for kicks - can you put the word in a sentence where it's ok for a Caucasian to use ?

What happens if I research my family tree and find that my great-great-grandfather was a ******?

Do I then get n-word privileges?

Do I need to carry a card?

[disco]

I've got a friend who thinks like Abdul and says unacceptable/racist things under the guise that he think it's ridiculous that we're so PC about jokes etc. and he's not meaning it any racist way. (he has black and asian friends etc.)

However

a) That would only work if it was actually clever or funny
b) Yes, perhaps society can be too 'cautious' about certain jokes/words, but that's the way it is so why make a tit of yourself saying something out loud in public.
c) He jokes about it so often, you start wondering....

[dww]

In the last ten years I've heard plenty of people use the N-word (there's no need to say it, we all know what it is). Are they proud to be non-PC too?

Probably, but the chances are that they were a/ a gangsta or b/ a **** or quite possibly both.

I think that in geberal the debate that the ideals of political correctness have sparked used to be both healthy and helpful. However now not just the label PC but much of the debate is mirred in pointless areas. A small minority have actually gone insane trying to legislate for offence when often very little was present and have completely ignored context.

This trend has led to the increasingly irritating stance that being non-PC is of itself a good thing. But worse and probably more inscidious has been the fact that insitutions like the Daily Mail can now reapply the term from language (were it has become a bit of a farce) into a term which can be applied to almost any socially progressive policy put forward.

If I could censor one phrase it would undoubtedly be "political correctness gone mad".

[Neil Young]

Probably, but the chances are that they were a/ a gangsta or b/ a **** or quite possibly both.

I think that in geberal the debate that the ideals of political correctness have sparked used to be both healthy and helpful. However now not just the label PC but much of the debate is mirred in pointless areas. A small minority have actually gone insane trying to legislate for offence when often very little was present and have completely ignored context.

This trend has led to the increasingly irritating stance that being non-PC is of itself a good thing. But worse and probably more inscidious has been the fact that insitutions like the Daily Mail can now reapply the term from language (were it has become a bit of a farce) into a term which can be applied to almost any socially progressive policy put forward.

If I could censor one phrase it would undoubtedly be "political correctness gone mad".
Indeedy.

Point of information - actually I was referring to what we could call "pre-modern usage" by white people spelling it 'er' at the end rather than 'a'. One occasion was inside Anfield about seven years ago now. Others were from Northern Ireland and I was told it wasn't a term of abuse. :shake:

[glynner]

What happens if I research my family tree and find that my great-great-grandfather was a ******?

Do I then get n-word privileges?

Do I need to carry a card?

I've got a friend who thinks like Abdul and says unacceptable/racist things under the guise that he think it's ridiculous that we're so PC about jokes etc. and he's not meaning it any racist way. (he has black and asian friends etc.)

However

a) That would only work if it was actually clever or funny
b) Yes, perhaps society can be too 'cautious' about certain jokes/words, but that's the way it is so why make a tit of yourself saying something out loud in public.
c) He jokes about it so often, you start wondering....

Abdul (I feel a bit foolish calling you that but I dont know your real name - sorry)

I see your point, and I'm really not trying to take some high moral ground on this.

I think Disco has said it best.

[Neil Young]

Abdul (I feel a bit foolish calling you that but I dont know your real name - sorry)

I see your point, and I'm really not trying to take some high moral ground on this.

I think Disco has said it best.
Is Abdul not his real name then?

[glynner]

No.

His real name is Lovecraft :crackoff:

[Neil Young]

No.

His real name is Lovecraft :crackoff:
Ah, cheers.

Lovecraft Alhazred. That's unusual.

[disco]

Abdul (I feel a bit foolish calling you that but I dont know your real name - sorry)

I see your point, and I'm really not trying to take some high moral ground on this.

I think Disco has said it best.

Cheers. :handshake:

Re-reading it it might sound a bit harsh on my mate and Abdul, and I honestly don't think either of them are racist.

I just don't agree/can't see the point of challenging the 'status quo' on such a topic. We can all agree that society is incredibly inconsistent about what can and can't be said, however if there's no actual need to say "******" (for instance) then why bother saying it just because you think you should be allowed to. :handshake:

[LadyRed]

I've got a friend who thinks like Abdul and says unacceptable/racist things under the guise that he think it's ridiculous that we're so PC about jokes etc. and he's not meaning it any racist way. (he has black and asian friends etc.)
However

a) That would only work if it was actually clever or funny
b) Yes, perhaps society can be too 'cautious' about certain jokes/words, but that's the way it is so why make a tit of yourself saying something out loud in public.
c) He jokes about it so often, you start wondering....


HAHAHAHA!!!

Hilarious!

[LadyRed]

For me a lot of PC shit should be common sense. Offensive terminology is kind of like the legal description of pornography - I cannot define it, but I know it when I see it.

In your example, clearly calling that kid a half breed is unacceptable (that should be common sense) but other, sometimes innocent terms to describe his/her heritage or background often fall foul of the PC brigade. That's when freedom of speech becomes a big deal.




Yeah, I totally agree with that, most of it is common sense. I think the whole negative stigma associated with the PC brigade is because of the ever changing and latest terms, when people get pedantic about the terms unnecessarily, it can get over bearing.

[LadyRed]

Most times I hear the N word it's actually used by a black guy on another black guy (can I say black?) and in a friendly way, I can't remember the last time I heard it used as an insult or in anger. Would you consider that non PC, racist or anything else. If a gay guy takes the piss out of other gay people is he homophobic? Is it Ok for insults of this kind to be used in public if within the minority community the word is designed or has morphed into to insult? or should the rules apply to everyone?

What d'ya think homo?

But if a Black person keeps on using the 'N' word and Asians keep on using the 'P' word, I think it almost gives other people the license to use them.

I personally hate both of them words, they were never self created labels for any of the communities, they were given to them as tools of oppression. I think if people of the respective communities understood their histories better, they might not use the terms so much.

[disco]

HAHAHAHA!!!

Hilarious!

:confused:

I nearly didn't mention it, but I wanted to put it in context. Perhaps I'm being overly protective of a friend, but he's got some very good black/asian friends so it's bizarre that he can say some of the things he does as a 'joke' :handshake:

He'd never use a 'racial slur' (grimace), but he'll just make bad jokes. The irony is is that his mates would probably laugh if he made the jokes in front of them, but when they're not there it just sounds wrong.

Anyway, enough focus on an individual, my general point was contained in the rest of my post you seemed to dismiss ;)

[disco]

But if a Black person keeps on using the 'N' word and Asians keep on using the 'P' word, I think it almost gives other people the license to use them.

I personally hate both of them words, they were never self created labels for any of the communities, they were given to them as tools of oppression. I think if people of the respective communities understood their histories better, they might not use the terms so much.

Richard Pryor said it best 20 years ago when he said he'd never call a brother the N-word again for that very reason :handshake:

[disco]

Yeah, I totally agree with that, most of it is common sense. I think the whole negative stigma associated with the PC brigade is because of the ever changing and latest terms, when people get pedantic about the terms unnecessarily, it can get over bearing.

Definitely. Blacks call themselves blacks, but some people frown about the use. It's especially difficult for teachers.

[LadyRed]

Richard Pryor said it best 20 years ago when he said he'd never call a brother the N-word again for that very reason :handshake:


Richard Pryor was a pretty cool dude.

I like the Chris Rock analogy of the word.

[LadyRed]

Definitely. Blacks call themselves blacks, but some people frown about the use. It's especially difficult for teachers.

hee hee, I think you mean Black people...

I think it is difficult for teachers, and the kids are smart they know how to play on it and make the teachers nervous and question themselves.

I always find if you say it with enough conviction, no one really questions you.

[fah-q]

"Don't call me N***er, Whitey! Don't call me Whitey, N***er" Sly Stone.

[mick the click]

I find all this very confusing. The words ****** and nigga (and I feel like Harry Potter saying Voldemort here…) exist, are used and cannot be disinvented. My confusion lies in the way it is acceptable for some people to use the word and not others. People of African origin (blah…) are free to use the word (however spelt, it sounds the same) and in doing so choose to perpetuate a contentious issue. But if no-one used the expression – ever – however cool they thought they might appear - the word might just become as useless, irrelevant and forgotten as everton. If the word continues to have ‘hip,’ ‘yo bro’ currency – anywhere amongst people of African origin (yawn…) it will remain a part of our language.

[LadyRed]

I find all this very confusing. The words ****** and nigga (and I feel like Harry Potter saying Voldemort here…) exist, are used and cannot be disinvented. My confusion lies in the way it is acceptable for some people to use the word and not others. People of African origin (blah…) are free to use the word (however spelt, it sounds the same) and in doing so choose to perpetuate a contentious issue. But if no-one used the expression – ever – however cool they thought they might appear - the word might just become as useless, irrelevant and forgotten as everton. If the word continues to have ‘hip,’ ‘yo bro’ currency – anywhere amongst people of African origin (yawn…) it will remain a part of our language.


The 'er', 'a' thing is just silly, we all know it sounds the same, that just the whole sub-culture that tries to glorify the word trying to justify it.

I totaly agree, if some people start making themself the exception to the rule, all it does is create double standards, there is no need for the word, no one need use it, in my opinion.

[Hollowman]

I imagine some black people would argue they don't see their use of a word that has historically been used to oppress them as 'cool' currency, but rather as an empowering re-appropriation.

For instance, Mos Def argues that black people can take "a word that has so many negative connotations, and turn it into something beautiful, something we can call our own."

Or, John Ridley reckons it's ridiculous for black people to be cowed by six letters and two syllables and that they should control and own the word.

Personally, I think it's all just a circus. In a hundred years we won't feel the same way about the word as we do today, just as we don't feel the same about it today as we did a hundred years ago. Conrad used the word freely, and it occurs in Huckleberry Finn over 200 times. We'll probably be baptising kids ****** Nigorius in 2132.

[fah-q]

The 'er', 'a' thing is just silly, we all know it sounds the same, that just the whole sub-culture that tries to glorify the word trying to justify it.

I totaly agree, if some people start making themself the exception to the rule, all it does is create double standards, there is no need for the word, no one need use it, in my opinion.

Thats not really why black people started calling each other that word though. It was originally an appropriation empowerment in response to the racist white use of the word.

[Abdul Alhazred]

I've got a friend who thinks like Abdul and says unacceptable/racist things under the guise that he think it's ridiculous that we're so PC about jokes etc. and he's not meaning it any racist way. (he has black and asian friends etc.)

However

a) That would only work if it was actually clever or funny
b) Yes, perhaps society can be too 'cautious' about certain jokes/words, but that's the way it is so why make a tit of yourself saying something out loud in public.


a) Isn't that a judgement call on the part of the speaker and listener?
b) I absolutely reserve my right to make a tit of myself in any way I see fit: there is no greater measure of freedom.

[fah-q]

I imagine some black people would argue they don't see their use of a word that has historically been used to oppress them as 'cool' currency, but rather as an empowering re-appropriation.

For instance, Mos Def argues that black people can take "a word that has so many negative connotations, and turn it into something beautiful, something we can call our own."

Or, John Ridley reckons it's ridiculous for black people to be cowed by six letters and two syllables and that they should control and own the word.

Personally, I think it's all just a circus. In a hundred years we won't feel the same way about the word as we do today, just as we don't feel the same about it today as we did a hundred years ago. Conrad used the word freely, and it occurs in Huckleberry Finn over 200 times. We'll probably be baptising kids ****** Nigorius in 2132.

lol, what he said.

[Abdul Alhazred]

No.

His real name is Lovecraft :crackoff:

:haha:

My real name is Giles.

Giles Winston Kodogo.

:eyebrow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZoSqPxsNtU

[fah-q]

:haha:

My real name is Giles.

Giles Winston Kodogo.

:eyebrow:

boong?

[mick the click]

empowering re-appropriation.

That's a wonderful, interesting and clever term, rolls trippingly off the tongue and all that, but surely it would be in everyone's interests just to let it die. If not, people might feel justified in using it. Is it right that a word can be used by one part of the world community and not others?

There are surely better, wiser and more congenial ways of (eugh) 'empowerment.'

[Hollowman]

I don't know. I'm not black. They want to use the word, more power to 'em.

Far as I see, 'right' has nothing to do with it. If someone can't see the distinction between two black guys calling each other ****** and a white guy using the word in anger, then they might want their head looking at.

[disco]

a) Isn't that a judgement call on the part of the speaker and listener?
b) I absolutely reserve my right to make a tit of myself in any way I see fit: there is no greater measure of freedom.

Yes and Yes, in the same way I could go round being rude to white people

[disco]

Richard Pryor was a pretty cool dude.

I like the Chris Rock analogy of the word.

The two shouldn't be compared.

hee hee, I think you mean Black people...

I think it is difficult for teachers, and the kids are smart they know how to play on it and make the teachers nervous and question themselves.

I always find if you say it with enough conviction, no one really questions you.


Edit - now I'm sober I think I understand your point! What's wrong with saying 'blacks' when referring to black people of different nationalities? Are you being overly PC? ;)

And conviction (or lack of it) is irrelevant if you use certain words



I imagine some black people would argue they don't see their use of a word that has historically been used to oppress them as 'cool' currency, but rather as an empowering re-appropriation.

For instance, Mos Def argues that black people can take "a word that has so many negative connotations, and turn it into something beautiful, something we can call our own."

Or, John Ridley reckons it's ridiculous for black people to be cowed by six letters and two syllables and that they should control and own the word.

Personally, I think it's all just a circus. In a hundred years we won't feel the same way about the word as we do today, just as we don't feel the same about it today as we did a hundred years ago. Conrad used the word freely, and it occurs in Huckleberry Finn over 200 times. We'll probably be baptising kids ****** Nigorius in 2132.

I love the Mos Def reference, but I don't think the word will ever become acceptable. It will just become boring.

So I guess it would become non-taboo in the sense that only a complete retard would ever use it.

a) Isn't that a judgement call on the part of the speaker and listener?
b) I absolutely reserve my right to make a tit of myself in any way I see fit: there is no greater measure of freedom.


See above. And to add we all have 'rights' that would make us unpopular if exercised. It's a weak argument you raise.

I don't know. I'm not black. They want to use the word, more power to 'em.

Far as I see, 'right' has nothing to do with it. If someone can't see the distinction between two black guys calling each other ****** and a white guy using the word in anger, then they might want their head looking at.

Agreed

[glynner]

The city of New York just recently imposed a ban on the word ******

Obviously it is not an enforcable law as such, more of a symbolic ban.

White suburban kids in baggy pants around the five boroughs now have no idea how to greet each other.

[fah-q]

Any Rap track that has the word in it, is now illegible for the Grammy's*. Not that, that would bother many of them "fuck the Grammy's*"





* the music awards not peoples grandma's

[saveferris]

When people use the phrase freedom of speech its the biggest loads of balls and the bigest cop out i have ever heard when people are being offensive to others, claiming its thir right to say whatever they like.

Over on KT there were many "discussions" about Islam most not positive, and normally many others jumped on the bandwagon, claiming they can say it because its their freedom of speech. However when i defended my religion then I am criticised because of my opinion. I dont have extreme views but in the end it was ridiculous as those claiming freedom of speech were quick to damn my opinion and my freedom of speech because it was opposed to theirs.

I have always claimed that if someone on this site made a statement about the club or the fans (which would be their right as "freedom of speech") that was very controversial, but maybe had a shread of truth to it but is the complete opposite to the general opinion that they would be lambasted, criticised to the hilt with people claiming freedom of speech as their back out clause if they overstepped the mark.

I reckon freedom of speech means you can be offensive to others (in any way and for whatever reason) and this is used as something to hide behind a person's true feelings.

[Neil Young]

When people use the phrase freedom of speech its the biggest loads of balls and the bigest cop out i have ever heard when people are being offensive to others, claiming its thir right to say whatever they like.

Over on KT there were many "discussions" about Islam most not positive, and normally many others jumped on the bandwagon, claiming they can say it because its their freedom of speech. However when i defended my religion then I am criticised because of my opinion. I dont have extreme views but in the end it was ridiculous as those claiming freedom of speech were quick to damn my opinion and my freedom of speech because it was opposed to theirs.

I have always claimed that if someone on this site made a statement about the club or the fans (which would be their right as "freedom of speech") that was very controversial, but maybe had a shread of truth to it but is the complete opposite to the general opinion that they would be lambasted, criticised to the hilt with people claiming freedom of speech as their back out clause if they overstepped the mark.

I reckon freedom of speech means you can be offensive to others (in any way and for whatever reason) and this is used as something to hide behind a person's true feelings.
Check out the Religion thread. :shake:

:handshake:

[saveferris]

I have read it :handshake:

[danielle]

It's about the context. Obviously it depends who uses it to whom, where they are, who else is about, etc. As glynnr said, there aren't any hard-and-fast rules - it's only really about being sensitive to others, it's not a big deal in my book.

By the way, genus names are capitalised and are usually followed by the species name e.g. Homo sapiens.

:handshake:

Don't forget they are usually italicised as well, i.e Homo sapien. :p