View Full Version : Tevez and mascherano to west ham??
That is a shock! These two guys are world class, oh well atleast we are going got Lucas Neill. :D
Mattshark
31-08-06, 11:22 AM
That is a shock! These two guys are world class, oh well atleast we are going got Lucas Neill. :D
Won't guarentee anything, though, they still ain't Gerrard or Alonso and there is nothing to say they'll be a complete success.
lfc4ever
31-08-06, 11:23 AM
T'other footy forum for this.
But how the hell did Pardew pull this off? Amazing piece of business, beat the scum & the arse to them :D
univofchicago
31-08-06, 11:24 AM
Unbelievable!!!!!!
Glad we played them once already...
Mattshark
31-08-06, 11:25 AM
Unbelievable!!!!!!
Glad we played them once already...
Were still better than they are and we'll beat them again at there place.
yep we missed out on a whole lot...
MrMichael
31-08-06, 11:26 AM
Moved it.
Does anyone esle smell something rather fishy with this one?
Their contracts are both owned by "MSI", a company with alleged "close links" to a certain Russian. So, rather than either of them sign for a club befiting their status as genuinely good players, they sign for a smaller London club, get adjusted to English footy there and then.... well I'll wager anyone £100 right now they'll both be at Chavski by this time 2008 if they work out in England. Ridiculous :rant:
univofchicago
31-08-06, 11:30 AM
Just visited the Mancs forum...
They are going berserk :haha: :haha: :haha:
As for something smelling "fishy", I smell it too MrMichael...
Although Chelsea has not been mentioned in any of the articles, I have a feeling they were involved someway or another...
of course it's fishy, it's unbelivably fishy...
i don't understand this at all
of course it's fishy, it's unbelivably fishy...
i don't understand this at all
teves could of gone to any of the big clubs and has decided to go to west ham no disrespect to them but do you think he has actually heard of them
This is actually unbelievable, I too smell a rat.
There is no chance in hell West Ham could afford those two, I would not be at all surprised to see them at the Chavs next season.
MrMichael
31-08-06, 11:54 AM
Seriously seriously suspicious. Verging on the outrageous. :rant:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Sports_Investment
Looks like people are smelling it correctly.
West Ham get two players for 'free' for the year, Chelsea keep a good eye on them, if they adapt to the league and do well, they join the Kings Road swines, and West Ham get a cut, Corinthians get a cut - and Chelsea sink even lower...
http://www.answers.com/topic/media-sports-investment
does this mean that we could have gottem if we wanted, a season long loan, surely it can't be that simple...
i mean WEST HAM for fucks sake, how in the world could this have happened, they are a club that sell stars not buy them, theres something fishy about this...
if theres nothing dodgy behind this deal, if the msi are not looking to buy the club, this could probavly be the best buy of the season, and the best buy for a club in a long time, this could actually be like when maradona whent to Napoli for a record fee. but some how i doubt that tevez will be as loyal to the hammers as Diego was to Napoli...
but i'm sreiously desturbed by thie piece of news...
but i know what my nr. 2 team is now...
carlos Tevez :rock:
Diego, I see you've changed your sig! Why is that? ;) Surely, by your reckoning West Ham will now win the league? :)
bazza76
31-08-06, 12:32 PM
I have a sneaky feeling that they will end up at chavski next season, when Maureen is sacked for not winning the Champions League.
it's a bit optimistic don't you think :D
i wanted to keep my sig, but i didn't want to be a laughing stock at the end of the season, my prediction was based on uts, arse or chelski to grab them...
but sig updated, will keep it till the end my friend...
tevez :rock:
Cool, Diego. I like your optimism!!!! :D
I can't effing believe this. Tevez will rip the Premiership apart!
I can't effing believe this. Tevez will rip the Premiership apart!
yessss he will
i just can't wait to se him play week in week out...
Tevez :rock:
Shanks65
31-08-06, 12:38 PM
Diego.
Will you continue your support for Tevez if (when) he signs for the Chavs next season?
Diego.
Will you continue your support for Tevez if (when) he signs for the Chavs next season?
well yes...
i wish him well hope he plays well, and scores alot of goals, but my wish for the team is different, i wish them to loose every time, it's like crespo, i love crespo, have no feelings against him wished him well, but i never wanted the team to perfrom well, just him...
Shanks65
31-08-06, 12:43 PM
well yes...
i wish him well hope he plays well, and scores alot of goals, but my wish for the team is different, i wish them to loose every time, it's like crespo, i love crespo, have no feelings against him wished him well, but i never wanted the team to perfrom well, just him...
fair enough dude.
Just curious:handshake:
i mean i have been following his carear closely for years now, and i won't stop, just hope to god that he will not play for chelski and the mancs, it would literaly break my little heart in...
well yes...
i wish him well hope he plays well, and scores alot of goals, but my wish for the team is different, i wish them to loose every time, it's like crespo, i love crespo, have no feelings against him wished him well, but i never wanted the team to perfrom well, just him...
But he is a cheating, yellow card waving scumbag, right?!! - tailor made to hate!
MrMichael
31-08-06, 12:47 PM
Diego - do you think Tevez will settle into English footy quickly or not? I've heard that South American footy correspondant on BBC radio 5, Tim Vickery, talking about him quite a bit, and remember him saying that he thought Tevez "back-to-goal and turn" style might take some time to adapt over here.
IMO Mascherano will settle far quicker....
Tim Vickery talks a lot of sense - however what will help Tevez where other have struggled is the fact he's so tenacious and strong. Oh, and he's fucking brilliant!
There will be a natural bedding in period though so it's a wise move on Chelsea's part :o
no you did not say tha, you fucking fuck :D
they are just verry pasionet players both of them, who come from a different bacground of football...
crespo is not a diver, crespo is the shit!!!! i love how he turned his back on chelski just cause his heart told him so, he celabrates every goal as if he was winning the league something henry might want to adobt, and has a fantastic bond with the supporters of every club he has been at, and he's one of the best finishers in football...
TEVEZ, i know you did not just say that about him, emem no you didn't...
he trips over the ball occasionally, and gets a freekick wich he then scores from occasionally, he's no more diver than any other latin player but he will change...
no you did not say tha, you fucking fuck :D
they are just verry pasionet players both of them, who come from a cheating, lying, lowlife bacground of football...
crespo is not a diver, crespo is the shit!!!! i love how he turned his back on chelski just cause his heart told him so, he celabrates every goal as if he was winning the league something henry might want to adobt, and has a fantastic bond with the supporters of every club he has been at, and he's one of the best finishers in football...
TEVEZ, i know you did not just say that about him, emem no you didn't...
he trips over the ball occasionally, and gets a freekick wich he then scores from occasionally, he's no more diver than any other latin player but he will change...
I actually never mentioned diving, but know you mention it... :handshake:
Anyhows, another patriotic blind :cool: - When are LFC gonna sign Healy so i can draw parallels with Pele :crackoff:
lfc4ever
31-08-06, 12:58 PM
Here's a good (but long) piece on the links between MSI & Roman.
http://stateofthegame.co.uk/2006/01/20/the-long-arm-of-the-lawless/
The Long Arm Of The Lawless
January 20th, 2006 by Alan Hylands
It's been a little over a year since London based businessman Kia
Joorabchian astounded Brazilian football by paying a record $22m to prise
Argentine superstar Carlos Tevez away from Boca Juniors and into the waiting
clutches of Sao Paulo's best supported football club, Corinthians. Having
bought the club and pumped in $35m (not including the "present" of Tevez)
through Media Sports Investment, the investment group he headed, Joorabchian
had made an instant name for himself in a country which was more used to
bankrupt clubs and selling it's biggest stars to Europe than signing the
most exciting young prospect from their deadly South American neighbour's
own top club side.
It didn't take long for the comparisons to Roman Abramovich to spring up in
the media, both being 30 something year olds with no previous football
experience who had bought up big clubs in foreign countries and immediately
splashed the cash on record transfers amid promises of making their teams
the best on their respective continents. For some however the comparisons
aren't enough and the rumours that Joorabchian's investors are headed by
Abramovich himself just won't go away. Spanish newspaper As in fact claimed
at the time of the Tevez purchase that Abramovich holds a 15% share of Media
Sports Investment and is using the front of Joorabchian to make his move
into the virtually untapped Latin American football market.
Roman Abramovich's old friend and exiled oligarch Boris Berezovsky is
another Russian billionaire with reputed links to the shadowy MSI group
which is based in an accountancy firm's offices in London and whose
membership Kia Joorabchian is going to great lengths to keep secret. He has
denied any links with Chelsea FC and also said that his only dealings with
Berezovsky in the past have been the sale of an 85% stake in the Moscow
newspaper Kommersant to a group in which Berezovsky had a financial interest
although he has lately admitted that he and Boris Berezovsky were in fact
good friends. The alleged involvement of the two Russians has led to many
rumours of potential money laundering and with MSI having pumped $50m into
Corinthians to buy overseas players in the first six months they were in
charge, it is certainly a cause for concern.
Brazilian football with it's much vaunted financial problems has long been
prone to corruption and a "bung" culture amongst it's clubs and federations
and with the history Mssrs Abramovich and Berezovsky bring from their days
acquiring privatized Russian state companies with the help of former Russian
President Boris Yeltsin it is understandable that long term supporters of
Corinthians and Brazilian football watchers alike would be getting nervous.
In January 2005, the Brazilian government told Joorbachian that he didn't
actually have the necessary paper work to do business in Brazil. MSI quickly
reacted by putting Corinthians vice president Paulo Angioni on their board
giving him the title 'Director of MSI Brazil'.
Given the allegations flying around, Brazil's anti-organised crime task
force summoned a confused Angioni to answer the allegations and to prove
once and for all where the money was coming from. In a bizarre 4 hour
testimony Angioni disclosed little in the way of information. "He didn't
help in any way, shape or form" said District Attorney Jose Carneiro. "He
displayed a complete ignorance of both his precise role in the company and
the workings of an investments fund". "There are certain indications of
money-laundering, but also a lot is still to be investigated.I can't give a
deadline for closing this case".
The question of where the money is coming from is obviously beyond even the
Corinthians vice president who has been stood up as a puppet for Kia
Joorabchian. With more questions than answers and a continued denial of
collusion with the Russians from Joorabchian we appear to be no closer to
finding out the real truth behind the Corinthians windfall and the identity
of their backers.
If the Russian pair are involved it may be more likely that they are more
interested in putting some geographic distance between their multi-billion
dollar fortunes and Russia before the winds of political change lead to them
becoming the next Mikhail Khodorkovsky and political pawn of the Kremlin.
Maybe Joorabchian is completely free of any such skeletons in his investment
closet and is merely trying to turn a well supported but financially poor
Brazilian team into the next Real Madrid with a large influx of transfer
capital in the hope of financially exploiting the fanatical Brazilian
fanbase? Maybe.
One thing is for certain and it's an undeniable fact shared by both Roman
Abramovich's Chelsea and Kia Joorabchian's Corinthians. Money can buy you
any trinket you desire as last season both clubs won their respective
leagues. What is not clear however is how much of a pawn, in a much shadier
game than football, both famous old clubs have become by selling their souls
to foreign investors.
Diego - do you think Tevez will settle into English footy quickly or not? I've heard that South American footy correspondant on BBC radio 5, Tim Vickery, talking about him quite a bit, and remember him saying that he thought Tevez "back-to-goal and turn" style might take some time to adapt over here.
IMO Mascherano will settle far quicker....
i actually think it wil take longer for mascerano to adapt, i just have a feeling he's not ready for the midfield sweep in england, he would have no problem with spain but this could be a problem at first for mascherano, but he's hard as fuck and that will get him through it, and once he has adapted the english style i think he'll be a better player for argentina...
i think tevez will adopt quicker, you saw how quick d'alisandro was to make his mark amd help portsmouth out of relegation, and tevez is twice the player he is, my only concern is that he is not a one man team, he likes his one-two with his team mates, likes to pass the ball, likes to run with out it, so the lack of quality players in west ham might be his biggest problem, but i have no doubt he will, kick ass tough, might take a few games but no more, come christmas and evey one will be begging for him...
Where is D'Alessandro now? Still at Portsmouth, or has he gone back to Wolfsburg or wherever?!?
Where is D'Alessandro now? Still at Portsmouth, or has he gone back to Wolfsburg or wherever?!?
no, he's a bitch, went to Zaragoza dont know why he could have come greate for portsmouth, but recon english football was to different for him...
D'Alessandro the bitch, I like it! :)
D'Alessandro the bitch, I like it! :)
i actually had high hope for him, heard of him befor he went to wolfsburg, though he was just pulling a ronaldinho, go to a small club to adjust to europe, then he turned out to be a twat, attitude problems with the manager, money hungry ho, witch spent to much time in germany cause he didn't show his worth, he did how ever show some of it with portsmouth...
bazza76
31-08-06, 01:48 PM
I can't effing believe this. Tevez will rip the Premiership apart!
He has never played in the EPL before, and he wont be better than Rooney IMO. He will be good, but not that good.
paulcooper4
31-08-06, 01:58 PM
He has never played in the EPL before, and he wont be better than Rooney IMO. He will be good, but not that good.
Think he will be good in flashes. He would need to improve his fitness to be a star on a regular basis. hes a right fat twat, seen the tits on him. Got the potential to be the best in the world in my opinion though. Not at west fucking ham though:o
There are rumours in the grapevine that chelski are involved in the Tevez and Masherano deal.Supposedely they are being loaned to west ham to see how they adjust to the premiership.
There may be an investigation getting under way.
Up to their old tricks again.
bazza76
31-08-06, 02:02 PM
Think he will be good in flashes. He would need to improve his fitness to be a star on a regular basis. hes a right fat twat, seen the tits on him. Got the potential to be the best in the world in my opinion though. Not at west fucking ham though:o
Would agree with that.
Could never see him bettering Rooney in the EPL though, regardless of what club he joins, would absolutely hate to see him joining Man USA
There are rumours in the grapevine that chelski are involved in the Tevez and Masherano deal.Supposedely they are being loaned to west ham to see how they adjust to the premiership.
There may be an investigation getting under way.
Up to their old tricks again.
No shock there then.
Keep up lad. Footy forum.
Charlie_B
31-08-06, 02:05 PM
I love how angry people are getting at this :D
lfc4ever
31-08-06, 02:05 PM
Are you serious? Jeesh, what a revelation! :sarcastic smiley:
I take it you haven't read the /other/ thread(s) then in the footie forum? :D
Going to merge this thread! :)
Charlie_B
31-08-06, 02:18 PM
Are you serious? Jeesh, what a revelation! :sarcastic smiley:
I take it you haven't read the /other/ thread(s) then in the footie forum? :D
Me?
lfc4ever
31-08-06, 02:21 PM
Me?
No, there was a merging of threads so it is out of sync now.
:handshake:
Hangs head in shame
I blame Nic-Flush! :D
http://newsfeed.tcm.ie/images/people/craigbellamy1PA.jpg http://www.vi.nl/images2/a/c/d/1987898401_1999998412_Tevez04_Pro_192_221.jpg
Scary stuff
ohh the pepsi shirt was so beautifull, i going to buy it of ebay
Diego I admire you, you have the ability to see beauty in the ugliest of places
http://www.uksoccershop.com/images/bocajuniorshjsy.jpg
that is just so classy
CharlieMansonsSquint
31-08-06, 04:52 PM
There are rumours in the grapevine that chelski are involved in the Tevez and Masherano deal.Supposedely they are being loaned to west ham to see how they adjust to the premiership.
There may be an investigation getting under way.
Up to their old tricks again.
Always assumed this was the case.
It allows Mourinho to run the rule over them for a year before deciding to buy, or not if they don't adapt.
If they joined Chelsea now they just wouldn't get a game.
CharlieMansonsSquint
31-08-06, 04:54 PM
http://www.vi.nl/images2/a/c/d/1987898401_1999998412_Tevez04_Pro_192_221.jpg
Scary stuff
http://www.gartcairn.co.uk/images/players/andy_ll.jpg
Shanks65
31-08-06, 05:08 PM
Both players signed on PERMANENT deals according to offal West Ham
just been on ssn that they are going on permanent deals
Keep up lad. Footy forum.
A tad late :o although, it WAS moved :crackoff:
Hangs head in shame
I blame Nic-Flush! :D
:rock: :D
CharlieMansonsSquint
31-08-06, 05:10 PM
just been on ssn that they are going on permanent deals
Where are they getting the £30m needed to sign them from then?
Where are they getting the £30m needed to sign them from then?
something dodgy gotta be goin on but thats what it says
JermainePennant
31-08-06, 05:12 PM
I would have loved to have seen mascherano here,how could west ham afford the pair of them?
baronvonskidmark
31-08-06, 05:14 PM
Bloody hell, this seems very dodgy - unless both Reo-Coker and Benayoun are leaving for big fees.
"31/08/2006 16:52
West Ham United are delighted to announce the double signing of Argentinian World Cup stars Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano from Brazilian club Corinthians.
The pair have been signed for an undisclosed fee and put pen to paper on permanent contracts with the Club this afternoon. All other aspects of the transfers will remain confidential and undisclosed.
The transfers represent a massive coup for the Hammers, who have beaten off some of Europe's biggest clubs to secure the services of the duo - both of whom played a key role for Argentina as they reached the World Cup quarter-finals in Germany this summer before losing to the hosts in a penalty shoot-out."
More here:
http://www.whufc.com/articles/article.php?page_id=8247
univofchicago
31-08-06, 05:16 PM
who have beaten off some of Europe's biggest clubs to secure the services of the duo
I wonder :rolleyes:
Bloody hell, this seems very dodgy - unless both Reo-Coker and Benayoun are leaving for big fees.
"31/08/2006 16:52
West Ham United are delighted to announce the double signing of Argentinian World Cup stars Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano from Brazilian club Corinthians.
The pair have been signed for an undisclosed fee and put pen to paper on permanent contracts with the Club this afternoon. All other aspects of the transfers will remain confidential and undisclosed.
The transfers represent a massive coup for the Hammers, who have beaten off some of Europe's biggest clubs to secure the services of the duo - both of whom played a key role for Argentina as they reached the World Cup quarter-finals in Germany this summer before losing to the hosts in a penalty shoot-out."
More here:
http://www.whufc.com/articles/article.php?page_id=8247
Dodgy, dodgy, dodgy, dodgy! Wonder how much say Pardew had in this......... none?:shake:
Shanks65
31-08-06, 05:17 PM
Well fair shout to them for pulling this off. Jesus!
My money is still on the fact that they'll move to the Chavs in a year or so, for twice the amount the Hammers paid
thats fucking bollox mate not having it, permanent deals, it west ham for fuck sake, they can't even keep their own players...
so thats where kenyons been today
Well fair shout to them for pulling this off. Jesus!
My money is still on the fact that they'll move to the Chavs in a year or so, for twice the amount the Hammers paid
doubt that msi sold their partof the players so hammers couldn't have paid full price for them, maybey hammers payed 10 million for 25% of the players, and msi trying to jack their price up a bit before selling permanantly...
Shanks65
31-08-06, 05:20 PM
so thats where kenyons been today
Yeah! The Huth move to Boro was delayed cos Kenyon was "elsewhere" doing some business. Upton friggin Park:D
(actually he's probably round Cashley Cole's gaff)
Guys according to the BBC website its not a loan deal, but a permanent deal.
All Chelsea conspiracy theories are out the window......
Shanks65
31-08-06, 05:21 PM
All Chelsea conspiracy theories are out the window......
Not if Roman loaned Pardew the cash:D
Yeah! The Huth move to Boro was delayed cos Kenyon was "elsewhere" doing some business. Upton friggin Park:D
(actually he's probably round Cashley Cole's gaff)
it does beg the question if chelski don`t sign cole what exactly has he been up to
It reeks even more of the Russian Pound.
lfc4ever
31-08-06, 05:24 PM
doubt that msi sold their partof the players so hammers couldn't have paid full price for them, maybey hammers payed 10 million for 25% of the players, and msi trying to jack their price up a bit before selling permanantly...
MSI tried to buy the Hammers last year, sounds like someone (an MSI hammers fan?) is a member on both boards?
Something just isn't transparent.
baronvonskidmark
31-08-06, 05:25 PM
Does no-one think that this has anything to do with MSI owning their contracts and MSI looking to take over West Ham? It's probably the best sweetener you could imagine.
My money's on West Ham having new owners in the next couple of months.
Guys according to the BBC website its not a loan deal, but a permanent deal.
All Chelsea conspiracy theories are out the window......
no way mate as i said above, even if it's a permanent deal, it doesn't mean that, that they bough 100% of the player, they might have leased them, for a sum for say 4years and players make a 4 year contract, but west ham doesn't buy the players, so when in 2 years chelski buy them, msi get the profits, and chelski only have to pay west ham to rift their deals, they are worth nothing to west ham...
MSI own the players, and I believe if West Ham are bought by that group then I suppose West Ham have signed them, but West Ham cannot afford to pay market value for them two, especially when Tevez was bought 12 months ago for $22m!
if teves somehow ends up at chelsea surely someone has to look into it
If that is true about MSI buying the Hammers and thus taking the players with them, it raises questions about who actually buys and sells the players - the owners or the manager?? I'm sure the players are thrilled at being treated like pieces of meat.
But who? FA are as weak as they come. Chelsea just take the piss out of them - continually.
yes but, if west ham have bought them than msi don't own them anymore, witch is clearly not the case...
if west ham is not being bought up by msi, then surely they have leased the players to westham in a dodgy loan deal, the players can sign a deal, but the club doesn't own the players msi does...
it's a very complicated thing
The two guys in question are probably very happy with the deal, they know that West Ham are a stepping stone onto a bigger, richer European club, whether that is Chelski or somebody else.
Yeah, MSI will still 'own' them. Otherwise this deal wouldnt have happened
there's a player in the argentinian league, witch own 10% of himself, how is this all possible...
someone please get Lecter over here...
animal magic
31-08-06, 05:32 PM
Has a West Ham fan created some kind of parallel universe where you can play Championship Manager and it comes true?
Yeah, MSI will still 'own' them. Otherwise this deal wouldnt have happened
yes witch brings me back to the point, that west ham can't have bought the players...
but isn't a proffessional deal with a football club worthless, if the club doesn't own the players...
baronvonskidmark
31-08-06, 05:32 PM
This is admittedly from last August, but in light of today, it makes you think things are now a bit nearer:
"On Thursday, a London-based company, Media Sport Investment, said it was considering an offer for the club. MSI's president, the 34- year-old Iranian-born, British-based Kia Joorabchian, has said he wants to buy West Ham for pounds 45m, clear debts of pounds 30m and invest pounds 100m in players. MSI bought a 51 per cent stake in the Brazilian club Corinthians last year " and invested heavily in new players " but little is known about MSI's backers."
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20050820/ai_n14917079
Dodgy or not I think it's a great deal for the players.
They are coming into a decent side, but without any title ambitions, so there is not a great deal of pressure.
They will also get their first taste for Europe through the UEFA Cup.
It's probably the perfect way for the 2 of them to adapt to a new footballing enviroment.
Whether it lasts more then 1 season is another story.
" but little is known about MSI's backers."
just pop across london and ask for a fella called roman
It annoys the hell out of me that this kind of thing happens, and that Chelsea don't get shafted. I refuse to believe that Roman isn't behind this move.
kenyons whereabouts today would be interesting to know
baronvonskidmark
31-08-06, 05:42 PM
The press conference should be good anyway. I think the questions might be a bit more insightful than the usual asking them if they're West Ham fans.
The press conference should be good anyway. I think the questions might be a bit more insightful than the usual asking them if they're West Ham fans.
teves" i can`t wait to play with lampard and terry"
dirty_sanchez
31-08-06, 05:46 PM
teves" i can`t wait to play with lampard and terry"
"I can't wait to play with Zamora and Carroll."
"I can't wait to play with Zamora and Carroll."
and it has always been my dream to play with lee bowyer
west ham fan on sky e mailed in and said he didn`t care how they got them suppose it`s the same as chelski fans saying they dont care how roman got his money when they are questioned about his dodgy dealings, no doubt somewhere we will be accused of falling behind west ham now when it comes to attracting players
This really is unbelievable. Never thought I would see those two players running out in the West Ham kit.
Just listened to a journo on SSN who had the gall to say that Tevez would be left out when Ashton recovers from injury, and that Mascherano is not as good a player as Carrick. I mean, for fucks sake!
R
lfc4ever
31-08-06, 05:56 PM
Just found this, took me a while googling, but I knew I had read it a while ago:
http://www.squarefootball.net/article/article.asp?aid=1571
Premiership: Keep an eye on MSI for future Chelsea deals
It might seem a little unlikely that the transfer of a player between an Argentinean and a Brazilian club could have any significant impact on the Premiership, but the recent deal that took Carlos Tevez from Boca Juniors to Corinthians for a fee of close to £12 million (a Brazilian record) is one that bears closer examination.
Corinthians, mired in debt after years of mismanagement and corruption (as is seemingly obligatory in Brazilian football), entered into a partnership with Media Sports Investments (MSI), a London-based investment group, in December 2004, with a 10-year deal between the two consisting of a £20 million investment from MSI in return for 51% of future profits.
The last month has seen Corinthians, with the help of their new-found backers, also recruit the services of other top players, with Carlos Alberto (scorer of Porto’s first goal in last season’s Champions League final), CSKA Moscow striker Vagner Love and centre-back Sebastian Dominguez from Argentine table-toppers Newell’s Old Boys all moving to Sao Paulo.
The President of MSI is 33-year old Kia Joorabchian (believed to be Iranian), but a certain Russian billionaire and an Israeli agent, Pini Zahavi, are both thought to be involved. Joorabchian has denied Abramovich’s involvement, although he admits that the Russian billionaire is a friend (they also have business links through another Russian billionaire, Boris Berezovsky). Abramovich has also denied having any financial interest in CSKA Moscow, but there is enough evidence to suggest this is dubious at best - a US$54 million three-year deal to have their shirts sponsored by Russian oil company Sibneft, of which Abramovich is still the major shareholder; club president Yevgeny Giner being another “close friend” of Abramovich; the recent controversial signing of Jiri Jarosik (CSKA coach Valeri Gazzayev was furious at the deal).
Whoever is behind the company (and it’s difficult to believe that the aforementioned speculation isn’t without some substance), MSI have wasted little time in making their mark elsewhere, having also signed the River Plate trio of Javier Mascherano (one of the most sought after young players in the game), Maxi Lopez and Lucho Gonzalez. The company are now negotiating where their three amigos will be playing their football in the immediate future, with Benfica having already signed Lopez and Gonzalez said to be interesting Porto.
The suspicion is that MSI is being used as a front to buy players in order to keep them out of the hands of Chelsea’s big-money rivals. This also enables them to farm players out to the likes of Corinthians, where the London club can monitor their progress, safe in the knowledge that they have first shout on their futures if and when they see fit to take them to Stamford Bridge. In doing so, Chelsea are taking the concept of feeder clubs to a whole new level.
This has to be the dodgiest transfer of all time. It's just not cricket.
No details about the length of contract? No details of the fees involved? DODGY.
The pair would cost a minimum £50m combined and West Ham obviously don't have that sort of money.
This is as dodgy as it gets. Russians eh?
dirty_sanchez
31-08-06, 06:01 PM
and it has always been my dream to play with lee bowyer
"...I heard he is very tolerant of foreigners"
We need total transparency in football transfers - not bitter, fair play to the hammers for pulling this off, however i don't trust agents, and with all that money sloshing about the authorities need to know everything's ligit!
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Spot on mate. He and Mascherano are coming to prove to Chelsea (and maybe other big clubs) they can cut in English football and adapt to the game here so that they can get a big money move to a big club, probably Chelsea, next year. I wouldn't be surprsied if Chelsea told them to go on loan to another English club so that they can be ready for us and prove they are good enough for us, especially given the interest we've had in them both. We'll be the only club who can afford them and I think both of them, certainly Tevez, are interested in playing for us long-term.
Also, remember one important thing too. West Ham are our feeder club, so it makes perfect sense!
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kooliomix3
CFCnet Member
United Kingdom
850 Posts
Posted - 31 Aug 2006 : 10:36:59
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Haha...I cannot believe West Ham can afford them, what a a shocker.
Rorywa
CFCnet Member
United Kingdom
6 Posts
Posted - 31 Aug 2006 : 10:42:15
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Here's a conspiracy theory. The crucial factor in West Ham signing Tevez and Mascherano is an Iranian business man by the name of kia joorabchian who owns MSI (Media Sports Investsments). MSI are the current owners of Corinthians. The money provided buy MSI allowed Corinthians to sign the Argentine duo for a previously unheard of fee in South American Football. Major Clubs, especially Chelsea have been interested in signing the duo for years. The interesting part, however, is that Russian oligarch Boris Berezovsky, Roman Abramovich's former mentor, also owns part of MSI. Joorabchian himself is said to be personal friends with Abramovich. The theory is that Corinthians are actually merely a feeder club for Chelsea and Tevez's and Mascherano's move to West Ham is simply a prelude to their eventual move to Chelsea, once they have proved they can acclimatise to the English footballing environment.
Jose INC.
CFCnet Member
12 Posts
Posted - 31 Aug 2006 : 11:01:58
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If Tevez (and Mascherano as well) did not join Arsenal or Man utd but West Ham it means just one thing: the stories about Roman and Corinthians are true.
Carlitos "el Brigante" Tevez and Mascherano (as replace for Makelele) will be Chelsea players next year, and it's a great news.
Hannibal
CFCnet Member
Nepal
51 Posts
Posted - 31 Aug 2006 : 11:20:54
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West Ham has been a good feeder for us .......watch out for tevez,mascherano and of course Anton ferdiand next season
Wildthing21
CFCnet Member
United Kingdom
3 Posts
Posted - 31 Aug 2006 : 11:34:47
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How could a club like West Ham manage to lure players of their level?!
James Prescott
Moderator
United Kingdom
2007 Posts
Posted - 31 Aug 2006 : 11:49:24
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Becuase they're only going there to get experience of English football so that they are ready to move to Chelsea next season. Otherwise they would have gone to Arsenal.
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Iceman
CFCnet Member
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96 Posts
Posted - 31 Aug 2006 : 11:52:34
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Don't forget all that MSI tried to invest in/takeover West Ham last year but nothing ever materialised. They could well be doing something now and that Tevez and Mascherano are their first of many signings.
Two Russian billionaires running two London clubs - head to head. Abramovich and Beretosvky (spelling?) of MSI can't stand each other. Think there is going to be some massive competition between the two.
nicholasobe
CFCnet Member
United Kingdom
186 Posts
Posted - 31 Aug 2006 : 11:56:53
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quote:
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Originally posted by James Prescott
Also, remember one important thing too. West Ham are our feeder club, so it makes perfect sense!
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That's harsh! Be nice ... they're just 'generous'
just a taste of what they think
especially if the agents own the players
there need to be rules about this
I honestly think that the FA should demand that before they allow a team to register a player that the transfer details are released - at the very least to the FA if not to the public. My worry would be that if they were allowed the power to sanction moves it would be as arbitary as the decisions on work permits, but I think you are right that transparency is the key.
kurtangle01
31-08-06, 06:11 PM
They've signed permanent deals at Upton Park! Unbelievable!!!:oh:
animal magic
31-08-06, 06:14 PM
...Great news for West Ham that they are getting two of the world's best players. Great news on the face of it. Digging a little deeper we can form an idea of the truth.
Can we reasonably conclude that two Argentine internationals, rated at a combined value of £50m, chose to spurn moves to Bayern, AC Milan, Manchester United, Roma, Arsenal and... Chelsea in favour of the thrills and spills of Upton Park and life alongside the likes of Marlon Harewood, James Collins and Paul Konchesky? Presuming we live outside of the computed generated world of Championship Manager, the answer to that question is "NO".
There are clearly other forces at work here and the way in which these two players are owned needs to be seriously addressed by the footballing authorities. It is widely known who has vested interests in MSI, the company that owns the player's contracts, and the company that has its financial claws in Corinthians. The sad thing for Alan Pardew and West Ham is that the club, known for its strong ties to the local East London community, is being used like a pawn as Russians play around with our domestic league.
it's crazy mate...
i just want to know how things like these work if players are not owned by clubs but companies
Imagine how the two players feel? I'm fairly sure neither of them want to go to West Ham and would naturally prefer a move to the vermin or Arsenal. They are the pawns in this farce.
Whilst it's all very dodgy and a bit disconcerting, it's very amusing that the Mancs are up in arms about it. Their filthy fans were banking on one of or both of these two going to the Theatre of Delusions. :haha:
From the Guardian website:
6.15pm It gets worse: West Ham are already lining up the sale of Mascherano and Tevez. Here's a Hammers suit: "These are exciting signings for us but, of course, if we were offered major fees for the players at a later date we would have to consider it - as we would with other players."
Hmm something is rotten in the state of Cockney.
I think Tevez will fail. Just a hunch.
Lots of other players have arrived with big reputations and failed, especially South Americans eg Veron.
Lets wait and see. This one will run and run.
I think Tevez will fail. Just a hunch.
read my sig
tevez:rock:
chelsea tv reporting that they are close to a deal involving ashley cole so maybe thats what kenyon has really been doing
read my sig
tevez:rock:
What's an MVP?
Anyway, I've read it but I stick by my hunch, he won't settle, he won't get the service he deserves at West Ham and he'll bugger off back to Argentina or Spain.
lfc4ever
31-08-06, 06:50 PM
Paul Doyle and Paolo Bandini
Thursday August 31, 2006
Guardian Unlimited
WHAT'S GOING ON AT WEST HAM?
Unless Salvador Dali faked his own death in 1989 and is, in fact, living in a derelict tenement in east London as a 102-year-old West Ham fan, it's safe to say no Hammers supporter could have imagined the news that broke this afternoon, viz: that the recently-promoted minnows have upgraded from Hayden Mullins and Bobby Zamora to ... Javier Mascherano and Carlos Tevez!
Short of Beyoncé Knowles ditching rich and successful rapster Jay-Z to hook up with your broke, bungling Fiver, no match-up could be more shocking. After all, the Argentinian stars have for years been linked with Arsenal, the MU Rowdies, Bayern Munich, Milan and a slew of other glamorous clubs. As well as Spurs and Portsmouth. "The pair have been signed for an undisclosed fee and put pen to paper on permanent contracts this afternoon," declared the West Ham website not two minutes ago. "All other aspects of the transfers will remain confidential and undisclosed," it continued mysteriously, as the whiff of rat wafted through Fiver Towers.
So what's going on? Might the dazzling duo be cosying up to the Hammers to showcase their ability to adapt to European football, thereby jacking up the fee and wages they could command from fatter cats in year or two? Could they simply be amused by the prospect of pushing Tottenham "delusions of grandeur" Hotspur farther down the London hierarchy? Or did Kia Joorabchian sway the pair to join West Ham by speaking very highly of the club?
"Who?" we hear you ask.
"West Ham," we answer. "That hokey outfit from grassroots London."
"Not them, you clowns, this Joorabchian geezer," you retort.
"Oh, he's the Iran-born, London-based businessman who pondered taking over West Ham last year. He may have told the lads it's a lovely club. Incidentally, he runs Media Sports Investments, the company that two years ago became the main financial backers of Corinthians. It was instrumental in amazing South America by bringing Tevez from Boca Juniors to Brazil in 2004. Spanish newspaper AS has reported Roman Abramovich has a stake in his company, but Joorabchian has rubbished these claims with great vigour."
Of course the fact that the pair have not joined a club likely to challenge, say, Chelsea for domestic or European honours is obviously coincidental.
* * * * * * * * * * * *
most valuable player....
im going to contradict you make out a controvercial claim...
Tevez is better than rooney :rock:
What's an MVP?
Anyway, I've read it but I stick by my hunch, he won't settle, he won't get the service he deserves at West Ham and he'll bugger off back to Argentina or Spain.
Most Valuable Player DUUUUUUUUUUDE!!
It's what the Yanks call 'Man of the Match', or 'Player of the Season'.
Shocking. :shake:
Of course the fact that the pair have not joined a club likely to challenge, say, Chelsea for domestic or European honours is obviously coincidental.
:haha: :haha:
CharlieMansonsSquint
31-08-06, 07:00 PM
I'll bet anything that they are both Chelsea players by this time next year.
Quite what West Ham get out of this is another matter. Pardew doesn't strike me as the type to do something with only a short term benefit to his team.
Looking at the Hammers squad they've now got 6 strikers: Sheringham, Zamora, Tevez, Ashton, Harewood and Carlton Cole. Okay Sheringham is 40 now but how the hell Pardew he going to keep the other 5 happy?
This transfer doesn't make sense for anyone but Chelsea, it's so bloody obvious.
it`s the all the undisclosed and strictly confidentail that make it sound even more dodgy than it is and i agree with the bit about pardew as i didn`t think he would be the type of guy who would put up with any shit
Looking at the Hammers squad they've now got 6 strikers: Sheringham, Zamora, Tevez, Ashton, Harewood and Carlton Cole. Okay Sheringham is 40 now but how the hell Pardew he going to keep the other 5 happy?
I was just thinking about this.
Harewood - scored a load of goals last season, surely won't be going anywhere.
Ashton - Just into the England squad, a class act and going nowhere.
Zamora - Scoring goals for fun so far this season in Ashton's absence. Top scorer.
Sheringham - Most likely for the chop.
Carlton Cole - Brand new summer signing - I don't think Pardew saw today's developments coming!
And now Tevez. It doesn't add up at all.
One thing that puzzles me slightly - isn't one of the dodgy Russians involved with MSI/Corinthians sueing Abramovich?
What worries me is that if there is a deal for Chelsea to get them in a years time, if they wish, then the supposed 'agreement' will be only verbal between Abramovich/his MSI bum chum and it won't be traceable or punishable if it comes to light.
I guess all will be revealed over the next year or so :shake:
Fuck sake why won't these bent Russians just fuck off
I was just thinking about this.
Harewood - scored a load of goals last season, surely won't be going anywhere.
Ashton - Just into the England squad, a class act and going nowhere.
Zamora - Scoring goals for fun so far this season in Ashton's absence. Top scorer.
Sheringham - Most likely for the chop.
Carlton Cole - Brand new summer signing - I don't think Pardew saw today's developments coming!
And now Tevez. It doesn't add up at all.
One thing that puzzles me slightly - isn't one of the dodgy Russians involved with MSI/Corinthians sueing Abramovich?
Are you implying they did this deal just to piss him off?
Agree though it doesn't make sense with all those strikers, unless they play 4-3-3 or something :confused:
i love the way ssn keep hinting at roman being involved and then say theres no evidence though
I'm not worried about it, the old cliche of 11 against 11 still applies. I'm slightly annoyed that it makes a mockery of the premiership though when West Ham get these players for a season when they are clearly bound for Chavski. I always thought the Smertin to Portsmouth deal was disgusting too. The fact that the Chavs can sign Crespo, Veron and Mutu for nealy 40 million and let them go for next to nothing plus Duff signed for 17 million and sold for 5, makes the whole thing look ridiculous.
CharlieMansonsSquint
31-08-06, 07:10 PM
i love the way ssn keep hinting at roman being involved and then say theres no evidence though
Yeah well they don't want to get sued.
But every cunt is thinking it.
Yeah well they don't want to get sued.
But every cunt is thinking it.
or dissappear
peter kenyon has been at a doping hearing according to ssn thought it was obvious that he was one
Amazingly not one person on Football rumours website got this deal correct. :haha:
If Chelsea are supposedly behind the deal, then why didn't they just sign them themselves?
If Chelsea are supposedly behind the deal, then why didn't they just sign them themselves?
To see if they can handle the Premiership, as South Americans don't have a very good success rate in our league. Also, they don't really need them at the minute. Mascherano would probably be the long term replacement for Makelele, and Tevez could be their idea of the long term replacement for Chavchenko.
BobSkinstad
31-08-06, 09:35 PM
Also, money laundering by Berezovsky - need to make a large sum of cash "disappear", so make a cosy deal with Abramovich (yeah, yeah, I know, there is lots of bollocks about them being enemies, but don't believe a word of it), using some other club as a pawn, and hey presto.
paulcooper4
31-08-06, 09:54 PM
most valuable player....
im going to contradict you make out a controvercial claim...
Tevez is better than rooney :rock:
whats controversial about that? 2 little fat ugly bastards. Ones gotta be better than the other so teah, id say probably tevez is better than the granny shagger:handshake:
El Diego
01-09-06, 12:22 AM
What the fuck Tevez and Mascherano has joined West Ham are they on pot?
youve been on here all day havent you?
Welhung
01-09-06, 01:03 AM
Dodgy as FUCK I say.:eyebrow:
Whats the bet that we never know how much they "went for" either.
Just wondering what happens when Chelsea have to play the Hammers?
Will Tevez and Mascherano both line up against them? Could they possibly be responsible for West Ham beating the Chavs? (if it is possible).
FowlerLeftFoot
01-09-06, 02:49 AM
chelsea should be banned for doing this dirty thing
just got this off a chelsea forum
CFCnet Member
United Kingdom
590 Posts
Posted - 01 Sep 2006 : 02:17:56
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At the end of the day, If it were a traditional and "legit" transfer and nothing suspicious was going on behind closed door's, there would not be such a big secret surrounding the whole thing. Why cant West Ham reveal how much they have forked out the piggybank for these two players? And how did they manage to pay the ridiculous sum of £69 Mil+ to buy out Tevez's contract release clause, let alone the price for the two players combined..It seems to me a bit of a coincidence that MSI and Kia *what ever his name is*, who attempted to take over West Ham last season, are behind these very deals. It will be interesting to see what unfold's in the future regarding thier future's. I however, firmly beleive that they, or at least Tevez, is coming to Chelsea.
According to today's Mirror (pinch of salt therefore required) West Ham paid £1m for each player.
According to today's Mirror (pinch of salt therefore required) West Ham paid £1m for each player.
so only 66 million short of his buy out clause! what makes anyone think its dodgy :shake:
so only 66 million short of his buy out clause! what makes anyone think its dodgy :shake:
even tony gale(prick) was saying well even if it`s only for a season so even he must be able to see it for what it is
even tony gale(prick) was saying well even if it`s only for a season so even he must be able to see it for what it is
sick of that prick and Kenny sansom ...on sky today mentioning Man u for the title and West ham,porstmouth being top teams.....no mention of Liverpool at all cnut
what a crazy scenerio this is. Part of me thinks fair play two West Ham, you got yourselves to quality players, but then I think they have sold there souls to the devil.
Look at the facts that we do know......
It's obvious that West Ham can't afford these two, it's also well know that MSI or whatever are dodgy and have a unknown very rich backer.
And there is no way either of these two players want to play for the Hammers.
IMO West Ham have basically whored themselves to get this two players, it improves their squad and raises the clubs' profile which you can't blame West Ham for doing. But at what cost to club??? something will backfire and in the long run West Ham will probably be burnt.
More worryingly, is this the future of football. World clas players/prospects being farmed out for 1/2 seasons for the benefit of the top clubs, to either prevent rivals signing them or to groom them for the own purpose. Chelsea already attempt to sigm players to stop rivals getting them. This is just another way of preventing your rivals to improve/challenge and basically monoplise football.
Tony Gale is so anti-Liverpool he makes Andy Gray seem like Thommo.
byrnolegend
01-09-06, 10:21 AM
A mate of mine just sent me the following stuff from the Mirror. Very fishy...
This article appeared in today's mirror which normally gets its football stories right. Something
very fishy indeed
DOUBLE BUY & MASCH!
DEADLINE DAY How East Enders pulled off the Premiership coup of decade, signing Tevez and Mascherano under noses of Chelsea, Arsenal & Man U John Cross
WEST HAM boss Alan Pardew yesterday pulled off an astonishing double transfer deal - including the capture of a player dubbed the "new Maradona."
Pardew stunned Chelsea <http://covers.mirror.co.uk/fixtures/premiership-fixture.aspx?page=/data/england/premierleague/fixtures/g1_summary_4.html> , Arsenal <http://covers.mirror.co.uk/fixtures/premiership-fixture.aspx?page=/data/england/premierleague/fixtures/g1_summary_2.html> , Manchester United <http://covers.mirror.co.uk/fixtures/premiership-fixture.aspx?page=/data/england/premierleague/fixtures/g1_summary_8.html> and Portsmouth <http://covers.mirror.co.uk/fixtures/premiership-fixture.aspx?page=/data/england/premierleague/fixtures/g1_summary_6.html> to sign Argentina World Cup duo Javier Mascherano and Carlos Tevez from Brazilian club Corinthians, subject to them getting work permits.
West Ham landed Mascherano and Tevez - both 22 - on amazing cut-price £1m deals through the company which owns their contracts, London-based Media Sports Investments
But ominously both have £20m buy-out clauses which will see them move next year, with Manchester United <http://covers.mirror.co.uk/fixtures/premiership-fixture.aspx?page=/data/england/premierleague/fixtures/g1_summary_8.html> having first option on Mascherano while Chelsea <http://covers.mirror.co.uk/fixtures/premiership-fixture.aspx?page=/data/england/premierleague/fixtures/g1_summary_4.html> are monitoring Tevez.
Mirror Sport can reveal that MSI already part-own two players at West Ham - Yossi Benayoun and John Paintsil - and they are happy for Pardew to have Tevez and Mascherano for a year and then sell them on if a club meets the buy-out price.
Their arrival brought back memories of Argentina stars Ricky Villa and Ossie Ardiles joining Tottenham <http://covers.mirror.co.uk/fixtures/premiership-fixture.aspx?page=/data/england/premierleague/fixtures/g1_summary_8.html> in 1978 after they won the World Cup. And Ardiles believes striker Tevez can be as good as Maradona.
Ardiles said: "He is the same type of player as Maradona - he is skilful, quick and very aggressive. He has all of the qualities that you need to succeed in England."
That shows the level of achievement on West Ham's part to land two of the most exciting prospects in South America.
Pardew's exhaustive attempt to get them was finally concluded at five in the morning yesterday at London's exclusive Cumberland Hotel.
He thrashed out a deal with agents Pini Zahavi and Jonathan Barnett plus Iranian businessman Kia Joorbachian who owns Media Sports Investments which has financial control of Corinthians.
Joorbachian tried and failed to take over West Ham last year but maintained close links with the club.
Arsenal <http://covers.mirror.co.uk/fixtures/premiership-fixture.aspx?page=/data/england/premierleague/fixtures/g1_summary_2.html> and United both enquired about Tevez and Mascherano but neither wanted to take them as a package - and both were more keen on Mascherano.
Portsmouth <http://covers.mirror.co.uk/fixtures/premiership-fixture.aspx?page=/data/england/premierleague/fixtures/g1_summary_6.html> were also close due to Zahavi's friendship with Harry Redknapp but it is Chelsea <http://covers.mirror.co.uk/fixtures/premiership-fixture.aspx?page=/data/england/premierleague/fixtures/g1_summary_4.html> who still loom large over the transfer.
Chelsea <http://covers.mirror.co.uk/fixtures/premiership-fixture.aspx?page=/data/england/premierleague/fixtures/g1_summary_4.html> owner Roman Abramovich is a close associate of Joorbachian and Zahavi brokered his takeover at Stamford Bridge. It is no coincidence either that the Cumberland Hotel was where Jose Mourinho agreed to become Chelsea <http://covers.mirror.co.uk/fixtures/premiership-fixture.aspx?page=/data/england/premierleague/fixtures/g1_summary_4.html> boss two years ago.
But United boss Sir Alex Ferguson has been assured by Zahavi that he will be given first option on Mascherano next summer - but will have to pay in excess of £18m.
Mourinho has flown to Brazil twice to watch Tevez but decided he is not yet ready for Chelsea <http://covers.mirror.co.uk/fixtures/premiership-fixture.aspx?page=/data/england/premierleague/fixtures/g1_summary_4.html> . This deal gives the Argentine stars 12 months to prove they can handle the Premiership.
Tevez and Mascherano both went AWOL from Corinthians to fly to London to set up the deals before they play for Argentina against Brazil at Arsenal <http://covers.mirror.co.uk/fixtures/premiership-fixture.aspx?page=/data/england/premierleague/fixtures/g1_summary_2.html> 's Emirates Stadium on Sunday.
Mascherano has been over THREE times to meet with Arsenal <http://covers.mirror.co.uk/fixtures/premiership-fixture.aspx?page=/data/england/premierleague/fixtures/g1_summary_2.html> and is regarded as a brilliant midfield anchorman in the mould of Patrick Vieira. He also shone at the World Cup, playing brilliantly in Argentina's 6-0 demolition of Serbia and Montenegro.
Tevez, 22, looks every bit the tough guy after a poverty-stricken upbringing in a Buenos Aires city block called Fuerte Apache.
He is one of nine children and his parents Raimundo and Adriana often could not afford to feed them all. His mother accidentally poured a kettle of boiling water over him as a baby, leaving him with facial scars and a big red wound on his body. Then he lost a front tooth after a nursery school accident, leaving him with a very distinctive look. Despite his millions he will never undergo plastic surgery as he says: "it's a reminder of what I came from and I will never change that."
But Tevez's rare talent has been overshadowed by Argentina's Lionel Messi and even Mascherano in recent times. Mascherano is strong, composed and has now established himself as an Argentina regular.
It is a stunning deal for West Ham, who described it as an "amazing coup ahead of some of Europe's biggest clubs."
West Ham legend Sir Trevor Brooking said: "It's potentially one of the most exciting deals the club has seen."
animal magic
01-09-06, 11:17 AM
Tony Gale is so anti-Liverpool he makes Andy Gray seem like Thommo.
'All that West Ham would say is that the deal for both players is permanent, although it is understood that the package could eventually cost them an eye-watering £60 million.
'That is highly unlikely as, in return for paying a small fee for the players and covering their wages now, West Ham have agreed to hefty sell-on clauses in the event of one of the bigger clubs in the Premiership, or on the continent, making a bid. It is believed that if a £30 million bid for either is tabled, then West Ham must sell or pay Corinthians the same amount to keep them.
'In return, West Ham will also get a small percentage of any sell-on fee. Corinthians are also understood to have negotiated an option to buy them back at the same price West Ham have paid.
Aaaaaaaah! I see now! That not remotely dodgy agent Pini Zihavi says it's got nothing to do with Chelsea and West Ham were merely the most suitable club for the Argentine pair to escape their Brazilian hell!!
http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=413508&CPID=8&clid=21&lid=2&title=Tevez:+Hammers+most+'suitable'
seems they have signed two of the worlds graetest prospects on a permanent 1 or 2 year deal...
talk about being dodgy as hell
For £1m each! To be honest, this should be investigated.
Imagine this as a scenario. Tevez and Mascherano are struggling to adapt to the pressures of the EPL, and Pardew wants to drop them - will he have the authority to do that? Or will somebody above him say that these two players simply have to play. If this happens, then surely Pardew isn't going to stand for it?!?
Aaaaaaaah! I see now! That not remotely dodgy agent Pini Zihavi says it's got nothing to do with Chelsea and West Ham were merely the most suitable club for the Argentine pair to escape their Brazilian hell!!
http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=413508&CPID=8&clid=21&lid=2&title=Tevez:+Hammers+most+'suitable'
To be fair Pini Zihavi is an honest and decent business man. I hold him in the same high regards as Mother Teresa:D
And more from The Guardian:
Eyebrows raised at deal shrouded in mystery
For now, Carlos Tévez and Javier Mascherano are West Ham players, but the reality of the deal remains in the dark.
Paul KelsoSeptember 1, 2006 10:13 AM
West Ham's sensational capture of Carlos Tévez and Javier Mascherano is undoubtedly the biggest coup of this or any other transfer window, but it is not just in English pubs and Premiership grounds that the significance of the Argentinian pair's arrival will be debated.
Thanks to the complex structure of the deal and the mysterious ownership structure of Media Sports Investments (MSI), the investment vehicle that yesterday sold the players' registrations to West Ham, administrators in Britain and Europe will have raised eyebrows at the passing of a deal that in almost every sense is unusual.
Although the transfer lists in today's papers will baldly state that Tévez and Mascherano yesterday moved from Corinthians to West Ham, the reality of the deal is more complex and remains in part opaque. The players were contracted to and paid by the Sao Paulo club but they were at least half "owned" by MSI and its front man Kia Joorabchian, an Iranian-born, British-educated businessman.
MSI yesterday sold its share in the pair's registration to the Hammers because FA regulations prevent player registrations being owned by anyone other than a club. MSI has secured lucrative sell-on clauses, however, meaning West Ham will have to sell either player should they receive an offer in excess of €50m (£35m) per player or match the fee themselves, with the lion's share of the profit going to MSI. For celebrating West Ham fans the one cloud on the horizon may be that the pair will spend this season in the Premiership shop window before departing to more glamorous employers.
Joorabchian became familiar to an English football audience last year when he tabled a £90m offer to buy West Ham from the chairman Terence Brown. The offer was not accepted but relations between the two parties remained good enough for the deal of the season to be engineered almost out of the blue.
Welcome though the signings will be to Hammers fans who will now dream of Champions League football, Joorabchian is a controversial figure in Brazil, where he was investigated after buying Corinthians in 2004, in Russia where he developed links with the exiled media oligarch Boris Berezovsky, and in the corridors of the European governing body Uefa where allegations of claimed links to European clubs, including at least one from the Premiership, have come to the attention of the chief executive Lars Christer Olsson.
Joorabchian, 35, made his entrance into football in 2004 when he appeared in Sao Paulo as the frontman for MSI's takeover of Corinthians, which saw the company promise to pump $35m into the club over 10 years. Joorabchian presented Tévez as a $22m (£11.5m) "present" to the fans and the most high-profile player ever to swap Argentina for a Brazilian club. Within months, however, Joorabchian and MSI found themselves the subject of an investigation by the Brazilian Central Bank and the organised crime unit. The investigations threw up extravagant claims but no proof of any wrongdoing.
MSI is registered in London, with Joorabchian and a Nojan Bedroud of Maidenhead, Berkshire, listed as the sole directors. Joorabchian has been on compassionate leave from Corinthians for several months after the death of his father. The transfer of Tévez has also thrown up suggestions of indirect links between the businessman and Berezovsky.
Joorabchian acknowledges that the two men are friends but denies that the Russian is a source of MSI's cash. Joorabchian also denies ties between MSI and Roman Abramovich, who was linked with the company by the Spanish newspaper AS, its story fuelled by reported sightings of Abramovich's yacht in Buenos Aires shortly before the Tévez deal was announced.
It was these suggestions of links between club owners stretching around the world and across Europe that alerted European administrators to the activities of Joorabchian. Allegations made in the Dutch media were forwarded to Olsson, who forwarded his concerns to leading football administrators across the continent and members of the European Parliament. Olsson's warning shot was in part the catalyst for a review of European football governance sponsored by the sports minister Richard Caborn and carried out by a Portugese politician, Jose Luis Arnaud. The review called for EU law to be changed to allow football to be governed by different rules to the rest of business, specifically allowing the authorities to investigate collaboration between clubs. Currently Uefa can only intervene if an individual or club own more than 51% of two clubs.
DeeGame
01-09-06, 01:25 PM
why cant parry pull off deals like this :rant:
Charlie_B
01-09-06, 01:28 PM
I can't believe how corrupt it all is. Astonishing really. Although, to be fair to them, the FA will show their might by fining Chelsea a fiver and asking them nicely not to do it again. Oh, and if they could please, please, please have a go on the yacht?
Shanks65
04-09-06, 10:57 AM
Good article in todays Independent
http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/premiership/article1319327.ece
why cant parry pull off deals like this :rant:
because its a rubbish deal!! I have no wish for Liverpool FC to appear a feeder club !
this transfer reminds me of that cheat in football manager.
you know that trick where you set up a new manager...then sell the good players for knockdown fees to the manager you already had set up:D
its dodgy!
animal magic
04-09-06, 02:22 PM
why cant parry pull off deals like this :rant:
A number of clubs - including Arsenal, Chelsea, Seville, Roma and Portsmouth -turned down the chance to take Javier Mascherano and Carlos Tevez as they were unwilling to agree to the terms of the deal.
taken from bbc
The whole thing stinks to high heaven. This Portsmouth/Chavski/West Hamski axis is bent as a three pound note.
If the FA don't start looking into this soon then the English game is going to get into massive difficulties. We are seeing the first signs of some kind of Football club cartel.
dirty_sanchez
04-09-06, 02:47 PM
The whole thing stinks to high heaven. This Portsmouth/Chavski/West Hamski axis is bent as a three pound note.
What have Portsmouth got to do with it?
Charlie_B
04-09-06, 02:50 PM
The chairman is pals with Abramovic. There have been a number of deals from Chelsea to Pompey also.
Does anybody have a run down on the actual details of the deal then? Money paid etc...
Shanks65
04-09-06, 03:26 PM
If the FA don't start looking into this soon then the English game is going to get into massive difficulties. We are seeing the first signs of some kind of Football club cartel.
If there's one thing we can rely on, it's the FA getting this sorted :handshake:
:D
animal magic
04-09-06, 03:54 PM
If there's one thing we can rely on, it's the FA getting this sorted :handshake:
:D
i think hell will freeze over first
dirty_sanchez
04-09-06, 03:57 PM
The chairman is pals with Abramovic. There have been a number of deals from Chelsea to Pompey also.
Ok, help me out here. I'm thinking Glen Johnson on loan, and.......erm.....
Smertin a couple of years ago, but that was before that Russian bloke turned up.
Charlie_B
04-09-06, 04:04 PM
Ok, help me out here. I'm thinking Glen Johnson on loan, and.......erm.....
I can't remember the exact details, there were three clubs where players just moved from one club to the other.
dirty_sanchez
04-09-06, 04:09 PM
Right, so you're including Portsmouth on the basis of two loan deals between them over about 3 years? I'm very confused now as to how that's irregular.
Charlie_B
04-09-06, 04:12 PM
Right, so you're including Portsmouth on the basis of two loan deals between them over about 3 years? I'm very confused now as to how that's irregular.
:D
I remember them being linked with Chelsea along with somebody else in terms of dodgy dealing. I'm not saying it is dodgy, just that I recall the article concerned.
dirty_sanchez
04-09-06, 04:19 PM
Ha! So you admit that you are basing this on idle speculation and have no proof! Aha! The prosecution rests.
Takes paper bag of roubles....
Charlie_B
04-09-06, 04:47 PM
Ha! So you admit that you are basing this on idle speculation and have no proof! Aha! The prosecution rests.
Takes paper bag of roubles....
Why, yes I am :D
dirty_sanchez
04-09-06, 04:53 PM
You're like a female Lionel Hutz aren't you Charlie. I hope to god you don't have aspirations of being a lawyer!
Charlie_B
04-09-06, 04:56 PM
You're like a female Lionel Hutz aren't you Charlie. I hope to god you don't have aspirations of being a lawyer!
Thanks :D
And hell, no!
dirty_sanchez
04-09-06, 05:02 PM
Although, if Davie can do it...
Although, if Davie can do it...
Oy Vey Pompey
Portsmouth's new regime features an Israeli director of football, an Israeli super-agent trying to bring in new players, a vice-chairman who lives in Israel and an owner who was in the Israeli army. And don't even mention the owner's father. What's going on?
Jamie Jackson
Sunday August 13, 2006
The Observer
On the forty-third floor of the Aviv Tower, a futuristic skyscraper in Ramat Gan, an important financial district close to the national football stadium in Tel Aviv, are the offices of one of the five richest men in Israel. He is a former Moscow State Circus worker who went on to become a gardener, bricklayer and arms dealer. He is now a billionaire philanthropist, at least in his own view. He holds five passports, employs a bodyguard, has a room named after him in the Louvre, and harbours a desire to solve the Middle East crisis. He was given a 13-month suspended sentence and fined $35,000 for tax evasion by the French authorities in 1999 and is the subject of an international arrest warrant issued five years ago in France for his involvement in arms dealing, tax evasion, money laundering and corruption. Russian intelligence have him under suspicion of drug trafficking in 1995 and of being a key player in global organised crime in 1996.
Article continues
Arkady Gaydamak, the 54-year-old owner of Beitar Jerusalem FC, is one of many Jewish businessmen from the former Soviet Union to have invested heavily in football. Apart from all the above, he might just be the man who can harness the dreams of thousands of Pompey mushes down on the South Coast of England, who are desperate for a return to the days of 60 years ago when Portsmouth, who begin their Premiership campaign on Saturday at home to Blackburn, won successive league titles. Since Gaydamak's son, Alexandre or 'Sacha', bought a 50 per cent stake in the club last January, rumours have persisted regarding his father's influence, despite constant denials from Fratton Park and Israel.
Gaydamak senior, a man with angular features who jokingly says 'I am an extra terrestrial', welcomed Observer Sport to his Aviv Tower offices recently, where he was happy to sit at his large conference table and talk. He began by denying any involvement with Portsmouth. 'For that you must ask my son. Yes I can tell you about the football, he is going to build a new stadium, he's working on that. But I cannot tell you anything more.'
Surely, though, there is more to tell?
First there is the confusion over the extent of his son's wealth and business acumen. Gaydamak junior, who served in the Israeli army for three months as a sniper, apparently derives his income from property investments and a financial agency business, the Moscow-based Antanta-Capital Group. In 2004 it made a profit of $647,000 (£366,000). This does not seem to suggest enough financial clout to allow Gaydamak's eventual £30m buy-out of Portsmouth - the first half was paid last winter and the deal was completed last month - and the considerable transfer budget made available to manager Harry Redknapp this summer. Especially when Gaydamak's known business career is taken into account.
Between February 1995 and May 2003, he was a director of seven companies, none of which appears now to be trading. He was the sole director of one, Monarch Fiduciary Limited, which went bust in June 2000, owing over £700,000, including £260,000 in unpaid VAT, and £464,240 to a charity. His response in January to queries regarding his failed ventures was: 'I don't owe anyone any money that I know of.'
He is close to his father - 'Very proud of him' according to a friend - and has been in business with Gaydamak senior as a fellow director of Pivoine, a holding company in Luxembourg. And in March he attempted to unfreeze £5m from a joint bank account held with his father at UBS Bahamas. Perhaps reflecting this chequered financial career and the inevitable comparisons between his father and the riches of Chelsea owner and fellow Russian billionaire, Roman Abramovich, Gaydamak junior also stated then that he was 'no Abramovich... and Portsmouth Football Club is my investment. There is no relationship whatsoever between my father and this club.'
Portsmouth say the same now, but the whispers will not go away. Two months ago, a party from Portsmouth met in Israel to discuss the transfer budget and strategy or the upcoming Premiership season. Present were Gaydamak junior, his adviser and vice-chairman, David Chissick, Redknapp, who had travelled with the club's chief executive, Peter Storrie, and newly installed director of football Abraham Grant, a former head coach of the Israel national team, Maccabi Haifa and Maccabi Tel Aviv, who is a friend of Abramovich. Redknapp, now in his second spell at the club, may have felt that discussions had gone well when he returned to England a few days later with the promise of £30m to buy players, a fortune by the club's standards, and a far greater amount than that available to Arsene Wenger, Sir Alex Ferguson and Rafael Benitez, the respective managers of Arsenal, Manchester United and Liverpool.
The profile of those present when Portsmouth's executive convened two months ago - only Redknapp and Storrie do not have Israeli passports - and the location of the meeting, underlines the changing identity of the club's power-brokers. Chissick, a 46-year-old media executive who is chairman of Cmate, a computer gaming company with offices in Israel, where he has a home, is particularly powerful, doing much of the fixing for Gaydamak junior. It all points to problems ahead for Redknapp. The transformation in the eight months since Gaydamak arrived has, according to club insiders, left the manager isolated. A surprising position, if it is true, for a man who ensured the club's Premiership status, against all the odds, in the final week of last season.
The apparent dilution of his power may in turn explain why Redknapp has found it difficult to sign players, despite his being able to offer wages of up to £60,000 a week. The potential transfers mentioned this summer are too many to list but they include England front man Jermain Defoe, former Real Madrid striker Nicolas Anelka, and the Argentina captain, Juan Pablo Sorin. Instead, Redknapp has failed to spend more than a tiny fraction of the £30m on buying players. Only loan signing Glen Johnson and free agent David Thompson had arrived before Sol Campbell, another free agent, and goalkeeper David James (£1.2m) joined last week.
'It's difficult,' is Redknapp's explanation, 'because clubs don't want to let players go.' Yet he had hinted at frustrations within his own club at the end of last month. 'Everybody talks to agents. I'm not going to sign anybody on anyone else's opinion. Anybody. If someone comes to me with a player and I'm not sure, I will not sign him. I don't care who suggests this player or that player. The only person whose head is on the chopping block is mine, so it's my decision. I will always do things my way, otherwise it's not worth doing the job.'
Super agent Pini Zahavi, another Israeli, brokered the Abramovich purchase of Chelsea, and introduced Gaydamak to Portsmouth. His connections stretch around the world, and he is very influential in South America and Russia. He is the man behind many of the biggest deals within the English game. Zahavi took Rio Ferdinand to Manchester United, manoeuvred former Old Trafford chief executive Peter Kenyon into the same role at Chelsea, and was involved in the meeting between Ashley Cole and the Stamford Bridge hierarchy in January 2005 which resulted in all concerned being fined.
According to insiders, Zahavi's influence at Fratton Park extends beyond the flux of playing personnel. He was involved in talks with directors during their visit to Israel and one highly placed source at Fratton Park said: 'He may as well be on the board.' Redknapp, meanwhile, works mainly with Willie McKay, another top agent who negotiated the deal that took record signing Benjamin Mwaruwari from Auxerre to Portsmouth for £4.1m last season.
Redknapp had a fractious relationship with former owner Milan Mandaric. Redknapp left Portsmouth, later to return, for Southampton in November 2004 largely because of the presence of the club's director of football, Velimir Zajec. How is his relationship with Gaydamak? 'OK. He's not an interfering chairman. He's a young guy who has employed me to do the job.' But is the presence of a new director of football, Grant, not reminiscent of the Zajec situation? 'Not at all. This man's an absolute gentleman.'
Was he your own appointment? 'No, I'd be a liar if I stood here and said I wanted to bring Avram Grant in. The owner said, "If you don't want him, I understand, it's your decision,"' Others at the club say an uneasy Redknapp 'blew hot and cold about the appointment' and there is a suspicion that Grant is waiting to take over if early-season results do not go Redknapp's way. 'Avram Grant is not the kind of person to sit back and earn the money,' says one Israeli football journalist.
What of Redknapp's stated frustrations? 'I was talking about other people here. Agents keep ringing up people.' And the Israeli connection, with figures including Zahavi, involved? 'Well Pini's not involved with this club.' Yet some at Fratton say...? 'No, no. Pini's nothing to do with it.' And the school of thought that has Gaydamak's father connected with Portsmouth? 'I don't know. I wouldn't know the background.'
Redknapp has enjoyed a highly successful 40-year playing and managing career. During that time, had he ever worked under anyone like this? A man whose father holds passports for Israel, Russia, Angola, Canada and France, contributes to a variety of charitable organisations in Israel, including those linked to the Arab community, runs a right-wing political party, funds a refugee camp, orchestrated a deal that allowed Angola's debt to Russia be slashed from $5.5 billion to $1.5bn, is a former chairman of Russian Credit Bank, and the subject of an arrest warrant for alleged arms trading? 'No, I don't know anything about that. I only know Sacha. It's the first time I've heard it. If it's true then it's interesting, but I don't know anything about the man's background.'
Arkady Gaydamak was born in Berdichev in Ukraine, in 1952. At 19 he moved to Israel. 'I had $3 in my pocket,' he says. I slept on the beach. When you see only sky, you have no limit.' Six months later he moved to France and in 1972 he started a small translation company. Through this he established connections with the French political and financial elite.
As the Eastern Bloc crumbled in 1989, Gaydamak moved into more lucrative trades with the former Soviet Republics in coal, meat, wheat and, finally, weapons. He had companies in England, France, Jersey, Luxembourg, Holland and the Isle of Man.
Since 2001, Gaydamak senior, who legally changed his Israeli name to Arye Barlev, has refused to respond to the international arrest warrant. He is wanted for questioning by the French authorities for his alleged part in a $633m arms sale to Angola in 1994, against United Nations sanctions, which was brokered by his associate, the Franco-Algerian businessman Pierre Falcone. Gaydamak denies any wrongdoing in 'Angolagate'. Jean-Christophe Mitterrand, son of the former president of France, Francois Mitterrand, was recently given a suspended prison sentence for his involvement in the scandal. Gaydamak also denies the allegations, based on memos by French security services sent to an investigating judge, that he had connections with the Russian mafia.
Since 'Angolagate', Gaydamak divides his time between Tel Aviv and Moscow, where he owns a lavish apartment filled with nineteenth-century furniture. Last year he bought one of the country's most famous newspapers, Moskovskie Novosti. He caused controversy by announcing plans to turn the weekly into a pro-government publication. 'Newspapers responsible for public opinion should not direct the public against the powers that be,' he said. And before Christmas, he was questioned for 10 hours by Israeli police as part of the investigation into alleged money-laundering at a Tel Aviv branch of Bank Hapoalim. Again he denied wrongdoing. In March Jerusalem police recommended he be charged with laundering $50m (£28.8m).
'They [normal people] need Gaydamak,' he says now. 'He is a Jew, rich, in trouble with the police. He is in conflict with everybody so he is a bad man. But what wrong I did? All my money I made on the Russian stock exchange. In November the shares of Gastro, the biggest Russian gas company was $51, today it's $92. That's it.'
He says he knows Abramovich and other prominent businessmen from the former Soviet Union but rejects comparisons. Is he familiar with Lithuanian Vladimir Romanov, the owner of Hearts, or Badri Patarkatsishvili, owner of Dinamo Tbilisi, the wealthiest man in Georgia? 'I am very far from them. Mr Abramovich is a powerful and positive man, but I would never claim I know him very well. By our economical activity we've had some connections, he visited my house here some time ago but we don't have a particular relationship. 'But football is no way to make money,' he finishes with a smile.
'When you want to take care of the team and respect the supporters you will never make money. Different kinds of people are just saying that it [club ownership] is to take the club and make real estate. Russians take care of the sports activity, they are here for fun and social status and also they bring their capacity, integrity and honesty to be a real sport manager for the good of the team and their supporters.'
The Premier League confirmed last week that Alexandre Gaydamak had passed the 'fit and proper person' test that all directors have to take to 'ensure they have not been involved in any illegal act.'
Why did the Israelis end up at Fratton Park, and why did Gaydamak target Portsmouth when he could have invested elsewhere, maybe at a higher-profile club such as Aston Villa or Wolves? Neither Gaydamak nor Chissick has any background in football and neither courts publicity.
According to one insider, Portsmouth was seen as an ideal purchase. Gaydamak and his colleagues see Pompey as a club with great potential, with a large and passionate fan base, and say they have the funds and the commitment to turn the club into something bigger. They relish a challenge and believe they can change the image of Portsmouth FC.
What do the fans make of this Jewish takeover? Portsmouth features prominently in the history of Jews in Britain - it was one of the most important cities for the Jewish community in the nineteenth century - but this takeover has come out of the blue.
Portsmouth's most famous fan, John PFC Westwood, is ecstatic. 'It's fantastic. We've bought a new training ground, he [Gaydamak] is going to start an academy, and Sol Campbell will act as magnet for other top players. The dream has become a reality.'
Portsmouth recently bought a 47-acre site at Titchfield to replace their basic training facilities near Southampton airport. Mandaric's plans to redevelop Fratton Park have been ditched by Gaydamak, and a move to a new stadium in Farlington, which failed five years ago, is again being considered. The club's star striker, Lomana LuaLua, having finally been convinced by the persuasive Chissick, has signed a new long-term contract. So have Gary O'Neil, Pedro Mendes and Richard Hughes. It seems Gaydamak and his Israeli team will be around for a good while yet.
The key players
Arkady Gaydamak
The father of the Portsmouth FC owner, he denies any involvement in the running of the club. A 54-year-old billionaire who holds Russian, Israeli, Angolan, French and Canadian passports. Gaydamak cannot, officially, leave Israel because of an arrest warrant hanging over him, yet he visits Russia and Angola. The French authorities want to talk to him about arms trading and he was recently questioned in Israel about suspected money laundering. He owns Beitar Jerusalem.
Alexandre 'Sacha' Gaydamak
One of three children, the 30-year-old son of Arkady recently bought full control of Portsmouth from chairman Milan Mandaric, having acquired 50 per cent last winter. He has been involved with several companies in the UK, one of which went bankrupt. He was formerly in business with his father and had a bank account with Arkady in Bermuda closed by the French authorities. His wife is German, he lives in Mayfair and holds French and Israeli passports.
David Chissick
New vice-chairman who is main adviser to Gaydamak junior. Described by Portsmouth chief executive Peter Storrie as working 'actively for the future of Portsmouth Football Club' and, according to insiders, is highly influential. Was among those who attended talks in Israel. After Chissick had recently persuaded Lomana LuaLua to finally sign a new, long-term contract, the club's star striker said: 'I wasn't happy but Mr Gaydamak sent David Chissick to tell me he wanted me here and that's all I wanted.'
Avram Grant
Formerly the Israel national coach, Maccabi Haifa and Tel Aviv Haifa, Grant was chosen by Gaydamak junior as technical director of the club. A factor in Redknapp's departure from Portsmouth during his first period in charge was the presence of Velimer Zajic, the former technical director brought in by chairman Milan Mandaric. He is close to Roman Abramovich.
Pini Zahavi
Super agent who brought Gaydamak junior and Portsmouth together, and also brokered the deal for Roman Abramovich's purchase of Chelsea and took Rio Ferdinand to Manchester United. Probably the world's best-known agent, and an influential source of players including Manuel Fernandes who recently failed a medical but is still at club hoping to pass a second check. Zahavi was popular in Israel until his involvement in the TV deal which took World Cup matches to a pay-per-view station.
Super-rich ex-Soviets who put their money in football
Super-rich businessmen from the former Soviet Union are involved with football clubs throughout the world. Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich is joined by Vladimir Romanov, the Lithuanian owner of Hearts, where he has installed son Roman as chairman. Badri Patarkatsishvili, owner of Dinamo Tbilisi, revealed to Observer Sport his link to Corinthians, the Brazilian club whose holding company Media Sports Investment, also showed an interest in West Ham. 'We have invested with Boris Berezovsky,' he said. Berezovsky, an exiled Russian tycoon, Badri and Abramovich, have all been linked with the £18m takeover in 2004 by Britain-based MSI. Berezovsky was granted political shelter by the Government in September 2004. Badri is wanted in Moscow for fraud and embezzlement and rarely leaves Tbilisi. Uefa and Betfair, the betting exchange, detected irregular betting on a 2004-05 Uefa Cup match involving Dinamo and Panionios. Losing 2-0 at half time, Panionios won 5-2. 'For illegal gamblers and money launderers, it [club ownership] is a good way to make money clean,' Uefa's Lars-Christer Olsson said. The head of Brazil's organised crime investigation unit, Jose Carneiro, also said: 'There are indications of laundering [at Corinthians].' Badri insists: 'I have never been involved in money laundering anywhere. I have nothing to hide.'
Additional reporting by Anna Kessel
animal magic
04-09-06, 07:56 PM
interesting read thanks
The suspicion is that MSI is being used as a front to buy players in order to keep them out of the hands of Chelsea’s big-money rivals. This also enables them to farm players out to the likes of Corinthians, where the London club can monitor their progress, safe in the knowledge that they have first shout on their futures if and when they see fit to take them to Stamford Bridge. In doing so, Chelsea are taking the concept of feeder clubs to a whole new level.
Doesn't account for the fact they were offered to Man U (on the word of David Gill). Too much bitterness surrounding this deal IMHO.
Doesn't account for the fact they were offered to Man U (on the word of David Gill). Too much bitterness surrounding this deal IMHO.
I disagree, it's not about west ham per se, but about the development of outside "corporations" part-owning and selling players as "abstract capital" independently of the clubs. Corinthians didn't want to sell the players but as they didn't own the contracts could do feck all about it.
The fact that in this particular example the main protoganists appear to be involved in some pretty shady business practices increases the concern. It appears Roman part-owns the company also.
There wasn't this furore when it happened on foreign soil long before now though - was there?
There wasn't this furore when it happened on foreign soil long before now though - was there?
Yes there was. There have been several articles this past year about MSI. I give you:
Thursday, January 13, 2005 :
FRONT | IRELAND | SPORT | WORLD | BUSINESS
Abramovich�s financial tentacles spread to South America
SPECULATION that Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich is spreading his financial interests in football to South America has resurfaced in the Russian billionaire�s homeland. Russia's independent daily business newspaper Kommersant this week reported that Abramovich was behind the E30 million transfer signings of Brazilian club Corinthians, echoing similar claims made before Christmas by Spanish sports daily AS that the Chelsea owner was an influential backer of the London-based group Media Sports Investment.
MSI belongs to Iranian-born businessman Kia Dzhurabchan and the investment vehicle financed the controversial E18m transfer of Argentine Olympic hero Carlos Tevez to Corinthians from Argentina's Boca Juniors.
Both AS and Kommersant reported that Abramovich was providing the financial muscle for MSI's involvement in Corinthians although Dzhurabchan categorically denied the Russian's involvement.
MSI financed the Tevez move as a bonus to Cornithians after it struck a 10-year deal with the club in 2004, which promised to pump in 26.5M cash, about 15m of which was to wipe out the club's debts. The Brazilians will hand over 51% of future profits to MSI in return.
It is not the first time Abramovich has been linked with football clubs other than Chelsea whom he has turned round from debt-ridden also-rans to Premiership leaders In September last year, UEFA
investigated his links with CSKA Moscow when the Russian club was drawn against Chelsea in the group stage of this season's Champions League. CSKA had in the previous March signed a sponsorship deal with the Russian oil company Sibneft, of which Abramovich is the former owner and still the majority shareholder.
UEFA ruled that Abramovich did not have a controlling interest in
CSKA but the relationship between the Muscovites and Chelsea fell under the spotlight again last week when Czech midfielder Jiri Jarosik completed a move from CSKA to Stamford Bridge on a two-and-a-half year deal.
There will be more intrigue, too, when CSKA forward Vagner Love leaves the Russian club during the transfer window and returns to his homeland of Brazil, having agreed terms with Corinthians. Vagner said he had agreed terms for a four-year contract with MSI.
I was referring to the pre-Abromovich era. As there was obviously a lot of jealously/bitterness immediately following his cash injection into Chelsea.
These company-funded South American player shenanigans have been going on in Italy for years. Little was said, though since there's some rotten money kicking around our league, now we're up in arms all of a sudden.
Smacks of a little hypocrisy to me.
enema of the state
04-09-06, 09:59 PM
For £1m each! To be honest, this should be investigated.
Imagine this as a scenario. Tevez and Mascherano are struggling to adapt to the pressures of the EPL, and Pardew wants to drop them - will he have the authority to do that? Or will somebody above him say that these two players simply have to play. If this happens, then surely Pardew isn't going to stand for it?!?
Investigated....this is BLATANT money laundering.
russian gangster has £50m or so lets say of dodgy crime proceeds which he wants to spend in the west but cant because hell have the authorieties on his case big style and everyone can see hes a gangster.
:
spend £20m in brazil - where the laws a little more "flexible", transfer the players to a second rate club but retain 99% equity in the dodgiest deal in the history of recorded time, sell them on 12 months later to the chavs, the scum or whoever for anything around £40m plus the pair and BINGO! youre a legitimate multimillionaire free to spend your money on legitimate property and business in london and elsewhere in western europe.
Do this on a grand enough scale and when your dodgy past catches up with you you can say "but i'm a legitimate businessman. look at all these people i employ who depend on me for their living...you cant send me back to russia to answer for all my crimes..:crackoff: "
its just a pity that the uk legal system will be impotent against such a transparent piece of organised crime.
I was referring to the pre-Abromovich era. As there was obviously a lot of jealously/bitterness immediately following his cash injection into Chelsea.
These company-funded South American player shenanigans have been going on in Italy for years. Little was said, though since there's some rotten money kicking around our league, now we're up in arms all of a sudden.
Smacks of a little hypocrisy to me.
My reply to that is that two wrongs don't make a right.
I didn't know about the italian situation so can't comment on that. However the premiership has been caught in a pincer movement whereby a group of very wealthy and connected foreign business men (all with very murky pasts) have suddenly massively invested in a few clubs. I don't think that happened in Italy. In such terms this is a completely different kettle of fish.
dirty_sanchez
05-09-06, 10:06 AM
Right, ok, I still don't get the Portsmouth bit from that lengthy article. As far as I can see, the only links are that some people who are friends of Abramovich are involved.
Right, ok, I still don't get the Portsmouth bit from that lengthy article. As far as I can see, the only links are that some people who are friends of Abramovich are involved.
The link is:
Pini Zahavi
Super agent who brought Gaydamak junior and Portsmouth together, and also brokered the deal for Roman Abramovich's purchase of Chelsea and took Rio Ferdinand to Manchester United. Probably the world's best-known agent, and an influential source of players including Manuel Fernandes who recently failed a medical but is still at club hoping to pass a second check. Zahavi was popular in Israel until his involvement in the TV deal which took World Cup matches to a pay-per-view station.
BobSkinstad
05-09-06, 11:03 AM
To be honest, I am disgusted that the British authorities have no trouble with letting such dubious figures into the country. It appears they have no trouble with whether the money is kosher or not, as long as it keeps coming in in large amounts.
dirty_sanchez
05-09-06, 11:28 AM
The link is:
Pini Zahavi
Super agent who brought Gaydamak junior and Portsmouth together, and also brokered the deal for Roman Abramovich's purchase of Chelsea and took Rio Ferdinand to Manchester United. Probably the world's best-known agent, and an influential source of players including Manuel Fernandes who recently failed a medical but is still at club hoping to pass a second check. Zahavi was popular in Israel until his involvement in the TV deal which took World Cup matches to a pay-per-view station.
Ok, but I don't see how that really links Portsmouth to Chelsea. All he's really done is gone "hey, if you want to buy a club, try Portsmouth...". That's pretty much it. Ok, he brokered a deal for one player, but maybe that was because Pompey actually really wanted him? I think everyone is maybe being a bit cynical.
BobSkinstad
05-09-06, 11:49 AM
There's no real "link", as such, it's just that Portsmouth is equally crooked, since it is now a vehicle for laundering dirty money that comes from an arms dealer.
Corinthians have said they wish they never got involved with MSI. Anyonw who doesnt think it stinks is ridulously niave
Was that Javier bloke taken to Corinthians by MSI?
Corinthians can't really complain about Tevez being taken away as he was given to them...
dirty_sanchez
05-09-06, 12:36 PM
Yes he was.
Ok, but I don't see how that really links Portsmouth to Chelsea. All he's really done is gone "hey, if you want to buy a club, try Portsmouth...". That's pretty much it. Ok, he brokered a deal for one player, but maybe that was because Pompey actually really wanted him? I think everyone is maybe being a bit cynical.
Zahavi is involved in MSI. I don't think it's cynical, to me it looks like a group of like-minded and funded venture capitalists deciding to make a killing out of the premiership. That is, they are using our game as a kind of plaything - collatoral for their for various financial and political purposes. It's just a conicidense that they all know each other and have similar backgrounds I suppose.....
From today's guardian:
Caborn lobbies DTI to crack down on secret investors
Paul Kelso
Tuesday September 5, 2006
The Guardian
The sports minister, Richard Caborn, is lobbying government departments including the Department of Trade and Industry to support a change in European legislation in an attempt to crack down on secretive investors taking stakes in English football clubs.
West Ham United have opened takeover talks with Kia Joorabchian, the Iranian-British entrepreneur behind the transfer of the Argentina internationals Carlos Tévez and Javier Mascherano, who is believed to be the front man for a number of Middle Eastern investors interested in taking a stake in a Premiership club.
Article continues
Joorabchian is also close to the exiled Russian media oligarch, Boris Berezovsky, and the Georgian businessman, Badri Patarkatsishvili, prompting speculation, denied by both men, that they are behind the bid to make West Ham the third Premiership club to be funded by cash from the former Soviet Union.
Concern about the relative lack of transparency surrounding Joorabchian's financial backers has re-awakened concern at the Department of Culture Media and Sport and the European governing body, Uefa, about football's vulnerability to anonymous investors.
A review of European football, commissioned by Caborn during the UK's presidency of the European Union, recommended that football should be subject to additional regulation to ensure that secret investors or beneficiaries of football clubs are exposed.
Officially the British government's position is that the review's recommendations are still being considered, but behind the scenes Caborn and officials at DCMS are working on other Whitehall departments, including the DTI and the Treasury, to bring them into line behind a unified government policy.
Once the government has a unified position the focus will turn to the European Commission, where work on a white paper on European Sport is already under way. Caborn and Uefa want to see greater transparency than is required by UK legislation. The DTI is the key department as any changes to business regulation in football would be hugely controversial.
The Premier League insists that its own rules on disclosure and the fitness of directors to serve on football club boards are sufficient. Under the rules, Alex Gaydamak was permitted to become a director of Portsmouth. Reports suggested his father, Arcadi Gaydamak, the subject of an arrest warrant in France, was behind the plan, but denied the allegation.
dirty_sanchez
05-09-06, 01:02 PM
Zahavi is involved in MSI. I don't think it's cynical, to me it looks like a group of like-minded and funded venture capitalists deciding to make a killing out of the premiership. That is, they are using our game as a kind of plaything - collatoral for their for various financial and political purposes. It's just a conicidense that they all know each other and have similar backgrounds I suppose.....
But Zahavi's actual role in Portsmouth is very minimal isn't it? There's a lot of this conspiricy theory going around based on things like them all knowing each other. Well that happens. The people involved in the differant areas here, Abramovich, Joorabchian, Zahavi etc, are all big names in world football, of course they all know each other.
But Zahavi's actual role in Portsmouth is very minimal isn't it? There's a lot of this conspiricy theory going around based on things like them all knowing each other. Well that happens. The people involved in the differant areas here, Abramovich, Joorabchian, Zahavi etc, are all big names in world football, of course they all know each other.
It's more than "just know each other" though. They share business, objectives and operate similarly. Abramovich is said to own a share of MSI.
dirty_sanchez
05-09-06, 01:12 PM
"Is said to..."
"Operate similarly..."
It's all very vague. Anyway, I don't doubt that there is some kind of dodgy dealings going on, I'm just curious as to whether there is any actual evidence at all to link Abramovich or Chelsea to Portsmouth or whether people are using it to cry conspiracy?
"Is said to..."
"Operate similarly..."
It's all very vague. Anyway, I don't doubt that there is some kind of dodgy dealings going on, I'm just curious as to whether there is any actual evidence at all to link Abramovich or Chelsea to Portsmouth or whether people are using it to cry conspiracy?
when you have that many billion sure he cant remember where he put it all ! :D
Don't you think with all Abramovich's money, he isn't spending a sizable sum in trying to cover his dirty tracks?
We might all be able to smell the stench - but proof will be a lot harder to come by. :(
Our whole psychology regarding team sports is geared around 'fairness', now we know that football isn't a level playing ground - you'd never expect Marine to beat Liverpool, and you never expect Liverpool to outspend Chelsea - but it's still 11 v 11 out there, and that is 'fair'
These latest developments goes to show that fairness is being compromised.
What happens behind the scenes in a game between Portsmouth and Chelsea? Maybe Chelsea have the title wrapped up, maybe Portsmouth need the points? A quiet word here, a quiet word there - Chelsea somehow lose, thus helping Portsmouth.
That is not fair, the whole foundation of team sports is therefore at risk.
The undisclosed links are very, very bad for the game.
BobSkinstad
05-09-06, 01:20 PM
I'm not sure that Abramovich is linked to Portsmouth.
Arkady Gaydamak is, and he is an arms dealer, who is suspected of drug trafficking and being involved in organised crime.
Boris Berezovsky is the money man behind MSI, and he stinks. Nominally, he made his money in oil, but he's also about selling arms to the Chechens, dealing in hostages, quite like instrumental in starting the First Chechen War, asset stripping and funnelling cash off companies like Aeroflot and LogoVAZ, etc, etc... All this in addition to rigging the debt auctions of the oil companies and making sure he and his mates make off like rapists on the deals. Oh, yeah, throw in a few murders here and there...
I can all see this ending very, very, very badly. not just for the clubs involved but for the game in the large. there's something very unpleasant happening here supported by some pretty obnoxious people.
I couldn't agree more, it is such a transparent money laundering scam. This must be stopped.
Christ and I thought the Glazers were bad for the game.
BobSkinstad
05-09-06, 01:45 PM
It's just very concerning when we see completely corrupt foreigners - who would be considered dangerous criminals in their homeland were their homeland a half-sane society (and Berezovsky actually is considered a criminal) - using the game to their own little (or not so little) sh*tty needs.
:rant:
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