View Full Version : Greatest English manager ever?
TartanTerror
10-11-06, 01:58 AM
I was watching a show called Fox Football Fone-In - hosted by Steve Cohen and Nick Geber. They were debating the five greatest English managers of all time. Routinely mentioned were Shankley, Paisley, and Ferguson. There were several others mentioned, but, Cohen thought Ferguson was the best for what he has accomplished in the modern game, while Geber (who is a LFC fan) thought that Paisley's haul of trophies qualified him as the best.
My thinking leads me to beleive that Shankly is the greatest. I did some research and aside from a period of 4 - 5 years in the early 1900's during which Arsenal were dominate, no one even approached the dominance of LFC in the 70's and 80's. My point being is that the modern concept of a football dynasty ows its origins to the work Shankly put in in the years leading up to the 70's.
My question to you all - is LFC really the first "dynasty", and would SHankly be the architect of that or does Paisley deserve more of the credit ? And I apologize in advance, as I am sure the Paisley vs Shanks debate is ongoing in Merseyside. . .
Slur Alex Ferguson is the greatest for me. :handshake:
desertscouser
10-11-06, 05:40 AM
Slur Alex Ferguson is the greatest for me. :handshake:
Hey Fredo, is this another of your sh!t jokes or are you serious? If you are, please qualify why you think Demento is no. 1.:handshake:
Hey Fredo, is this another of your sh!t jokes or are you serious? If you are, please qualify why you think Demento is no. 1.:handshake:
Because he has built teams over and over again ... over a 20 year period. All of his teams have been competitive sides. His only blemish comes in the amount of trophies he won in the CL ... which amounts to 1 :haha: .
It's very tough remaining at the top over such a long period of time, and demento has done it. I hate to say that though. :shake:
Bob Paisley inherited an already great team and brought unprecedented success to Liverpool during a 7 year reign. But he already had the foundations built by Shanks ... Anyway, it's all about opinions, as demento didn't win anything of note during his first 7 years.
Fowler_god1984
10-11-06, 07:35 AM
surely he would have to be english to qualify?
royzared
10-11-06, 07:58 AM
British manager or manager of an english club?
Maestro
10-11-06, 09:29 AM
As important as Shankly was to our club, and as legendary as the man was, in a debate about the greatest British manager, it boils down to Paisley and Ferguson. I'm obviously biased, but I feel Paisley has to get it for his record in Europe. Ferguson has had 20 years and untold wealth at his disposal and has fallen way short in Europe - he knows this himself, and I think it's the reason he hasn't quit yet. Paisley achieved on all fronts and I think this tips it in his favour.
I do think there is a reasonable argument that they were both the pinnacles of their particular eras. The skills involved in their respective jobs were different enough to mean that they have to be considered equally great but at slightly different things. Paisley presided over the only English team which could genuinely be said to have been the best in Europe of a sustained period of time, Fergusson over a series of teams who were all competitive but never the best in Europe. Also the finanaces and attitude of players were so different in the two times that the skills necissary to succeed were different and we will never know how each woud have fared in the others heyday.
Red Chilli
10-11-06, 10:54 AM
You can't argue with 3 European cups :handshake:
You can't argue with 3 European cups :handshake:
and a uefa :)
ferguson better than paisley???
bollocks.
Snigger
10-11-06, 11:37 AM
interesting question - ask for the best English manager then list a load of Scots.
Okay, so who in terms of English (nationality-wise) managers is the best. I guess Clough has to be pretty hard to beat and Alf Ramsey probably deserves a mention.
Neil Young
10-11-06, 11:45 AM
Okay, so who in terms of English (nationality-wise) managers is the best. I guess Clough has to be pretty hard to beat and Alf Ramsey probably deserves a mention.
1. Paisley.
2. Clough.
3. Ramsey.
4. McLaren.
OK not McLaren then.
That seems pretty definitive.
TartanTerror
10-11-06, 01:28 PM
Sorry I was not clear - The question posed on the show, I believe, was manager of English squads regardless of nationality. Regardless - It was not my list, but rather that of Geber and Cohen with additions by the callers of the show - they also mentioned Clough etc.
My post, in a sense, was meant to be more of a question. I have followed LFC since about 1977 - however I am American. I was limited to what football magazines my family would send over as part of holiday parcels. While I know about LFC, I do not have a sense of English football history. It would seem to me that Shankly pretty much set up the first dynasty. Is that how it is viewed in England? Or were there teams prior to the Shankly era that were felt to have been dominate enough to call a dynasty? I really wasn't trying to necessarily start a "best manager" debate (even though that is what it was on the show), but rather trying to understand where Shankly and some of our own LFC managers fit in, in terms of influence and changing the way the game is played.
Anfield Mole
10-11-06, 01:28 PM
My vote is for the best English manager is Peter Reid or Glen Hoddle.
Redlife
10-11-06, 02:07 PM
My vote is for the best English manager is Peter Reid.
Monkey heid.:respect: :respect: :respect: :D
Anfield Mole
10-11-06, 03:50 PM
In all seriousness, the best English managers in my lifetime recent times have been Sir Bob, Cloughie, Duncan Fletcher and Jack Charlton
Snigger
10-11-06, 04:33 PM
what aboot Telly Venerabells
CharlieMansonsSquint
10-11-06, 05:00 PM
Paisley for me but for Clough not to get a mention is just scandalous.
Neil Young
10-11-06, 05:06 PM
In all seriousness, the best English managers in my lifetime recent times have been Sir Bob, Cloughie, Duncan Fletcher and Jack Charlton
Isn't Duncan Fletcher from Zimbabwe?
animal magic
10-11-06, 06:11 PM
Isn't Duncan Fletcher from Zimbabwe?
yes and he is the coach of the cricket team :rash:
thesilverfoxlfc
10-11-06, 06:25 PM
John Barnes
animal magic
10-11-06, 06:28 PM
brian clough
Neil Young
10-11-06, 06:31 PM
yes and he is the coach of the cricket team :rash:
:confused:
Nice to see you about, animal. :handshake:
animal magic
10-11-06, 07:25 PM
:confused:
Nice to see you about, animal. :handshake:
yeah how are you
Red_Al_77
10-11-06, 08:56 PM
Best English manager - Brian Clough
Best Overall - 'Sir' Bob Paisley (Best is measured by success. 3 European cups thrashes the arse off everyone bar Cloughie)
Neil Young
10-11-06, 11:36 PM
Best English manager - Brian Clough
Best Overall - 'Sir' Bob Paisley (Best is measured by success. 3 European cups thrashes the arse off everyone bar Cloughie)
But Bob Paisley was English. I don't understand.
Neil Young
10-11-06, 11:36 PM
yeah how are you
Fine thanks. Busy - big change coming up. Sorry to read your news on the other thread. Hope your mum's bearing up.
Red Chilli
11-11-06, 12:16 AM
But Bob Paisley was English. I don't understand.
Yes, that confused me too.
I still say you can't argue with 3 European Cups, not even Clough can argue with that.:respect:
animal magic
11-11-06, 12:53 PM
but clough took over shit teams paisley took over a winning team
Red_Al_77
11-11-06, 01:08 PM
But Bob Paisley was English. I don't understand.
My post was badly worded sorry. IMO Clough is the best English manager based on the fact he was successful with two teams (Derby and Forest). Paisley is the best overall in terms of trophies. Although in sheer number Fergie has won more, the fact that Bob won 3 European trophies trumps everyone.
Red Chilli
11-11-06, 11:53 PM
but clough took over shit teams paisley took over a winning team
That's not Paisley's fault though is it?
Souness took over a team top of the league and in the quarter finals of the FA cup, a team which hadn't been out of the top 2 for over a decade and we haven't won the league since and have only finished in the top 2 once in 15 years.
Clough only ever took over 1 "big" club (leeds united) and he was an unmitigated DISASTER.
Paisley took over that team and turned them into European champions, three times :respect:
Dalglish (from official site)
"There was only one Bob Paisley and he was the greatest of them all," says Dalglish. "He went through the card in football. He played for Liverpool, he treated the players, he coached them, he managed them and then he became a director."
"He could tell if someone was injured and what the problem was just by watching them walk a few paces. He was never boastful but had great football knowledge. I owe Bob more than I owe anybody else in the game. There will never be another like him."
Hansen (from official site):
"I go by records and Bob Paisley is the No.1 manager ever."
Souness (from the official site)
"When you talk of great managers there's one man at the top of the list and that's Bob Paisley."
Mumsafan
13-11-06, 01:43 PM
But Bob Paisley was English. I don't understand.
Neither do I. Why don't people realise he was English?
Mumsafan
13-11-06, 01:44 PM
That's not Paisley's fault though is it?
Souness took over a team top of the league and in the quarter finals of the FA cup, a team which hadn't been out of the top 2 for over a decade and we haven't won the league since and have only finished in the top 2 once in 15 years.
Clough only ever took over 1 "big" club (leeds united) and he was an unmitigated DISASTER.
Paisley took over that team and turned them into European champions, three times :respect:
Dalglish (from official site)
Hansen (from official site):
Souness (from the official site)
Souness said on the telly last week that Fergusn was the best - he said he couldn't be compared to Paisley as Paisley was years ago
animal magic
13-11-06, 09:12 PM
i know but clough turned around derby and forest okay leeds was a disaster and he should have never taken the job but in my eyes he is the best
Red Chilli
13-11-06, 09:15 PM
Souness said on the telly last week that Fergusn was the best - he said he couldn't be compared to Paisley as Paisley was years ago
Oh well fuck him then. He obviously has no idea what he is talking about.
Red Chilli
13-11-06, 09:16 PM
i know but clough turned around derby and forest okay leeds was a disaster and he should have never taken the job but in my eyes he is the best
Clough never won the FA cup :whatever:
animal magic
13-11-06, 09:26 PM
true can not argue with that
Red_Polo
14-11-06, 03:59 AM
Clough never won the FA cup :whatever:
Nor did Paisley :s
Runner-up in '77 was the closest he got.
Red Chilli
14-11-06, 10:17 AM
Nor did Paisley :s
Runner-up in '77 was the closest he got.
Yeah but clough didn't win 3 european cups :p
Paisley is always referred to as a manager who took over a top team, which is true, but he turned them into one of the greatest teams ever assembled.
Alan Hansen, Graeme Souness, Alan Kennedy, Ronnie Whelan, Ian Rush, Craig Johnston, Mark Lawrenson, Bruce Grobbelaar, Steve Nicol, Phil Neal, Terry McDermott, Joey Jones, David Johnson and King Kenny were all signed by Bob Paisley; I doubt there will ever be another manager to get it right that many times.
In my mind he is, and probably always will be, the greatest ever.
[QUOTE=friedk]Paisley is always referred to as a manager who took over a top team, which is true, but he turned them into one of the greatest teams ever assembled.
Alan Hansen, Graeme Souness, Alan Kennedy, Ronnie Whelan, Ian Rush, Craig Johnston, Mark Lawrenson, Bruce Grobbelaar, Steve Nicol, Phil Neal, Terry McDermott, Joey Jones, David Johnson and King Kenny were all signed by Bob Paisley; I doubt there will ever be another manager to get it right that many times.
In my mind he is, and probably always will be, the greatest ever.[/QUOTE
agreed for me it's paisley.
Red_Polo
15-11-06, 06:31 AM
Yeah but clough didn't win 3 european cups :p
What's that got to do with the FA Cup? :D
Paisley is the greatest, it's fucking obvious. Anyone who says otherwise is a cum guzzling cock whore.
What's that got to do with the FA Cup? :D
Paisley is the greatest, it's fucking obvious. Anyone who says otherwise is a cum guzzling cock whore.
:haha:
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