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Old 08-02-08, 11:48 AM   #1
alunevans
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AFC Liverpool Grassroots - Initial Proposal

Some of the snottier comments on here about the Premier League proposals basically said if you don't like it then set up AFC Liverpool. Cheeky fuckers really to tell me to abandon the team I have supported all my life just to allow the moneymen who have been in charge of Liverpool for 12months to get their hands on more cash. But that's some people for you.

Nonetheless, the game has clearly lost its soul. It might press some buttons for us but there's other buttons that the moneymen's game never can. We NEED our own grassroots team to press those buttons.

There are also many here who are threatening to jib the whole thing if they turn the main footballing competition (the league) in season 2010. If those threats are serious (and mine certainly is cos whats the point of following a farce competition) then there'll be nothing at all for us within 18 months.

I'm making a serious proposal here to set up an Industrial and Provident Society called AFC Liverpool Grassroots to be a football team playing for Liverpool supporters and open to Liverpool supporters who either still follow the premier league nonsense but have something missing inside and want to part of something more traditional too, and to those Liverpool supporters who have turned their back on the moneymen's game.

I'm proposing that membership of the society be obtained by an annual fee of 10 to the society, with each member receiving a single share in the society and an equal vote at meetings.

I believe that the element of partisanship would make this idea a goer, as Wimbledon fans but more comparably FC United have proven.

When the latter did this they gained 100k very quickly from their supporters, replenished each year, and expect an average of 5,000 supporters for each game by next season.

I'm not really looking for debate here. I'm looking for people who are interested and also those who are supportive who have the skills to make it happen.

Whether you're sticking with LFC no matter what the league becomes, or whether you need a cheaper and more rootsy pro LFC alternative, 38% of locals in a recent poll on here said they'd go along and watch AFC Liverpool Grassroots too.

We CAN make this happen. But who is up for it?

1892 revisited.

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Old 08-02-08, 11:55 AM   #2
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Surely it's better to support an existing local club?
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Old 08-02-08, 11:59 AM   #3
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Surely it's better to support an existing local club?
Do Both.......
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Old 08-02-08, 12:00 PM   #4
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Surely it's better to support an existing local club?
No. I'd have no partisan basis for my support. As I said, I'm not seeking debate here. I'm seeking only people who may be able to offer support and help into making it happen.

Please people, if you want to debate this, open a new thread. This thread is not a debate thread but a "sendyour skills and support" thread.

The point here is to see if we can make this idea happen. If you don't like the idea thats ok. But it's not what the thread is for so please, I only want to hear from supporters of the idea and those who have skills that could help make it happen.
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Old 08-02-08, 12:03 PM   #5
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- i was waiting for this to come up - esp after i noticied you were looking into the details behind FC United - did you use wiki
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Old 08-02-08, 12:04 PM   #6
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Or we could form a new club called Liverpool Soccerball United, make some crazy projections about a worldwide fanbase and the money flooding into footy and then sell it to a couple of 'loaded' Americans. That'd work

Oh
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Old 08-02-08, 12:05 PM   #7
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Alun - if you want, i'll open up a seperate thread to debate the pro's and cons of this and leave this one open for those who are interested? maybe worth to close the thread to prevent it from going of on a debate and leave a not to contact yourself if interested
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Old 08-02-08, 12:07 PM   #8
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- i was waiting for this to come up - esp after i noticied you were looking into the details behind FC United - did you use wiki
Yes. The template is there to follow. If they can raise 100k (ie around 10,000 members) then surely we can.

Even if you stick with LFC playing in the new meaningless league structure, we've reached an age where there's something missing from the modern game.

I feel that a complementary AFC Liverpool Grassroots which is owned and run by Liverpool supporters would bridge that gap for many of us.

I would certainly be keen to be involved. I know some people who are experts in social enterprises who I may be able to offer advice and guidance. And there must be a huge amount of skills out there from ordinary fans who would like to see this happen.
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Old 08-02-08, 12:08 PM   #9
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Alun - if you want, i'll open up a seperate thread to debate the pro's and cons of this and leave this one open for those who are interested? maybe worth to close the thread to prevent it from going of on a debate and leave a not to contact yourself if interested
Whatever you think best, but i would like a thread open where people can list their skills and make clear what they'd be willing and able to do to make it happen either to get it started or to support the running of the club once its in operation.
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Old 08-02-08, 12:12 PM   #10
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to be honest i am interested in it - IMO i think it is a much more realistic and feasible option compared to the sharelfc scheme of buying LFC - going from the response of people interested in that scheme and how liverpool fans in general, it's fair to say that people aren't happy with how things are. As you say the template is there with FC United, it would take some doing and hard work but is has the potential - be prepared for the backlash of "wtf, we are Liverpool Football Club, and I support LFC and only LFC etc etc"
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Old 08-02-08, 12:16 PM   #11
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Whatever you think best, but i would like a thread open where people can list their skills and make clear what they'd be willing and able to do to make it happen either to get it started or to support the running of the club once its in operation.
ok - i'll see what the other mods think - what would prob best then is to have a thread to debate it - pros/cons etc which imo would be good way of judging initial reaction - i'll see if the other mods agree and we can maybe creat a sticky thread purely for thos who are interested in being directly involved or have relative skills and advice and ensure any debate is in the right thread
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Old 08-02-08, 12:21 PM   #12
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Whatever happened to our beautiful game.

The money men have stolen the love of my life.

RIP.
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Old 08-02-08, 12:49 PM   #13
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Im in, but Im not playing and Im keeping my stewards job.


Oh and I'll help anyway I can, not just throw in a tenner.
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Old 08-02-08, 12:52 PM   #14
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Ok fellas, play nice now. It's all sorted.
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Old 08-02-08, 12:53 PM   #15
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Whatever happened to our beautiful game.

The money men have stolen the love of my life.

RIP.
Exactly how I feel Les. I'm in mourning yet still raging at the murderers.
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Old 08-02-08, 12:54 PM   #16
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Until all the fans make a stand together nothing will change. While we all still keep paying for tickets/sky/setanta then it will carry on. Shit as it is.
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Old 08-02-08, 12:58 PM   #17
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Coops,

Leave him to it mate. If that's what he think does his opinion even matter. Thanks for the support though.

I'm sick of arguing with people on here now who will accept anything they do to us, and when anyone tries to do something that will try to ensure we still have a game of football that has some soul then they insult them.

They're irrelevant now. Just as the Premier League competition will be in 2010.

As for Manc clone retards, I have nothing but admiration for the people at FC United. To create an entire football club from nothing and make it work, and get 5,000 people in every week to watch them is an astonishing achievement.

They'll be in the football league soon in my view. They have control of their club. They have partisan reasons for supporting them. And they get a football that is honest and true.

I think we're capable of doing the same, whether or not we continue supporting the original LFC or not (though bear in mind many of us can't afford to!)
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Old 08-02-08, 12:59 PM   #18
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Surely it's better to support an existing local club?

I already do

Unless you are suggesting Everton?
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Old 08-02-08, 01:04 PM   #19
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Until all the fans make a stand together nothing will change. While we all still keep paying for tickets/sky/setanta then it will carry on. Shit as it is.
That may be true, but what if a huge proportion of us want the option of an additional pro LFC club that is run by us and which has elements of the game that we grew up with and loved. When there was a link between the club and the fans. When the football mattered rather than just money.

Top flight football does not meet this need anymore. So even if you keep drinking from that particular chalice, there's still a huge swathe of people who would have certain emotional buttons pressed by this.

Even if everyone keeps with their season tickets and their Sky, this is a grassroots club that can coexist and do well. It would provide a place for Liverpool supporters like my nephews to feel involved in the game again. It would provide a gathering place for LFC fans of like mind. And it would be a place where football was pure and run and owned by the people who support it.

I NEED that, but I won't find it at LFC, and I won't find it at Marine or South Liverpool either because I have no reason to support them. The only team I'd support is AFC Liverpool Grassroots and I'd want us to turn them into a football league club in my lifetime.

I know that other people need these emotional buttons pressing too. After all, isn't that what its all about when it comes down to it?
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Old 08-02-08, 01:06 PM   #20
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Perhaps this isn't the best place to post this but as much as I admire Alun's passion and love for LFC and footy in general, I just don't agree with the idea of setting up another club called AFC Liverpool Grassroots (or whatever its final name would be)

Any new institution created WONT be LFC nor will it be affiliated with LFC - so surely the existing structure of football clubs on Merseyside needn't be altered to allow Scousers and people close by to pick another Liverpool-based team to follow - most non-league clubs are dying on their arses through lack of cash, why not put the money into one of these? It's local, it's Liverpool, and it's real football - exactly what you're after, surely?
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Old 08-02-08, 01:07 PM   #21
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Old 08-02-08, 01:09 PM   #22
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That may be true, but what if a huge proportion of us want the option of an additional pro LFC club that is run by us and which has elements of the game that we grew up with and loved. When there was a link between the club and the fans. When the football mattered rather than just money.

Top flight football does not meet this need anymore. So even if you keep drinking from that particular chalice, there's still a huge swathe of people who would have certain emotional buttons pressed by this.

Even if everyone keeps with their season tickets and their Sky, this is a grassroots club that can coexist and do well. It would provide a place for Liverpool supporters like my nephews to feel involved in the game again. It would provide a gathering place for LFC fans of like mind. And it would be a place where football was pure and run and owned by the people who support it.

I NEED that, but I won't find it at LFC, and I won't find it at Marine or South Liverpool either because I have no reason to support them. The only team I'd support is AFC Liverpool Grassroots and I'd want us to turn them into a football league club in my lifetime.

I know that other people need these emotional buttons pressing too. After all, isn't that what its all about when it comes down to it?
I'd love to know why you have no reason to support South Liverpool, yet would support AFC Liverpool Grassroots? I know logic and reason don't go hand in hand with passions and football, but I'm curious....
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Old 08-02-08, 01:11 PM   #23
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Coops,

Leave him to it mate. If that's what he think does his opinion even matter. Thanks for the support though.

I'm sick of arguing with people on here now who will accept anything they do to us, and when anyone tries to do something that will try to ensure we still have a game of football that has some soul then they insult them.

They're irrelevant now. Just as the Premier League competition will be in 2010.

As for Manc clone retards, I have nothing but admiration for the people at FC United. To create an entire football club from nothing and make it work, and get 5,000 people in every week to watch them is an astonishing achievement.

They'll be in the football league soon in my view. They have control of their club. They have partisan reasons for supporting them. And they get a football that is honest and true.

I think we're capable of doing the same, whether or not we continue supporting the original LFC or not (though bear in mind many of us can't afford to!)

i see where you are coming from - as much as we have a big rivalry for the mancs - as i said in the thread about overseas matches - top flight football as a sport is dying - i bet those involved in FC United have great pride in what they have achieved and great satisfaction to a be a part off. - As much as we all love/support our own clubs - at the end of the day it is football that brings it all together. If i didn't support liverpool i'd still be playing/watching/loving football cause ulitmately imo it is the greatest game in the world,

ages ages ago i went on a random pisstake rant and predicted the future of football in a thread on here - it was over a year ago and went largely unnoticed but with what is happening at the moment it keeps popping into my mind again - although i went ott and tongue in cheek with the rant, the basics of it are very relevant. I will try and find it, but basically it ended up that the premier league went world wide and fans rebeled by created a "fans premier league" consisteng of FC United AFC Liverpool etc etc
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Old 08-02-08, 01:13 PM   #24
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very good points caco

Alun - as everyone is debating it in here I will make this the debate on your proposal and see what we can do re a thread soley for people who are interested in gettung involved and have skills/advice/experience to offer
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Old 08-02-08, 01:16 PM   #25
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Perhaps this isn't the best place to post this but as much as I admire Alun's passion and love for LFC and footy in general, I just don't agree with the idea of setting up another club called AFC Liverpool Grassroots (or whatever its final name would be)

Any new institution created WONT be LFC nor will it be affiliated with LFC - so surely the existing structure of football clubs on Merseyside needn't be altered to allow Scousers and people close by to pick another Liverpool-based team to follow - most non-league clubs are dying on their arses through lack of cash, why not put the money into one of these? It's local, it's Liverpool, and it's real football - exactly what you're after, surely?
I understand where you're coming from completely. But partisanship cannot be manufactured. I mean, I kinda like Rugby League when I'm sat there and it comes on telly and I've sod all else to do. And I suppose St Helens isn't that far away. But I'll never get INTO rugby league because when Wigan beat St Helens I'm not really arsed. One cannot manufacture partisanship.

If I had any partisan reason for supporting Marine or S Liverpool or Prescot Cables then I'd go there and all my buttons would be pressed, but I don't. And nor do many other people whose focus has always been LFC.

I'm pretty certain that the majority of people who support the new AFC Liverpool Grassroots would not be people who currently follow non league football. In that sense, it would breathe some life into the non league by adding 5,000 new followers of the league each week. I think that would help non league.

Besides, I don't believe that non league is where such a club would remain or be its natural home. I'd expect it to be a semi pro club with an agenda to get into the lower reaches of the football league. Or at the very least the higher reaches of the non league system. But who knows.

I understand your sentiments. I think they're compatible with mine. If I had the partisan support for Marine or whoever life would be easier because I wouldn't have to be asking people if they'd help me set up a new football club from scratch. But i don't and it can't be manufactured
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Old 08-02-08, 01:17 PM   #26
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Thinking about it - I reckon if you had a strong backing and great ideas and approached the owners of South Liverpool FC they'd be more than happy to discuss and implement changes.

Money still talks at that low level.
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Old 08-02-08, 01:20 PM   #27
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I understand where you're coming from completely. But partisanship cannot be manufactured. I mean, I kinda like Rugby League when I'm sat there and it comes on telly and I've sod all else to do. And I suppose St Helens isn't that far away. But I'll never get INTO rugby league because when Wigan beat St Helens I'm not really arsed. One cannot manufacture partisanship.

If I had any partisan reason for supporting Marine or S Liverpool or Prescot Cables then I'd go there and all my buttons would be pressed, but I don't. And nor do many other people whose focus has always been LFC.

I'm pretty certain that the majority of people who support the new AFC Liverpool Grassroots would not be people who currently follow non league football. In that sense, it would breathe some life into the non league by adding 5,000 new followers of the league each week. I think that would help non league.

Besides, I don't believe that non league is where such a club would remain or be its natural home. I'd expect it to be a semi pro club with an agenda to get into the lower reaches of the football league. Or at the very least the higher reaches of the non league system. But who knows.

I understand your sentiments. I think they're compatible with mine. If I had the partisan support for Marine or whoever life would be easier because I wouldn't have to be asking people if they'd help me set up a new football club from scratch. But i don't and it can't be manufactured

That is fair enough - and we'll get into circular arguments soon () so I'll leave it but in my eyes an AFC Liverpool Grassroots WOULDN'T be LFC, therefore if I can tranfer my passion from LFC to another footballing entity (citing passion, Liverpool-based, and grassroots as key motivators) I think these could/would be found at existing non-league clubs.
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Old 08-02-08, 01:22 PM   #28
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I'd love to know why you have no reason to support South Liverpool, yet would support AFC Liverpool Grassroots? I know logic and reason don't go hand in hand with passions and football, but I'm curious....
Just I have no connection with them mate. Its the LFC link (and I know it'd only be a link) that would give me a sense of belonging and partisanship. That is, this is the grassroots team for and owned by Liverpool fans.

Marine is just some club. I'd love to be able to go and support them and care, but I wouldn't. I don't have any link to them at all. And you can't manufacture passion can you.

When FC United started up, Leigh RMI asked them to buy them out because Leigh were in problems etc. FC United thought it over and declined yet have friendlies with them pre season to generate cash for Leigh etc.

Maybe one of the current clubs would seek a partnership in the same way and then I'd have reason to support them, but I'm sure if I was an Evertonian Marine fan that'd be no different to what we're going through.

I think a separate club makes sense. If any of you have a partisan sense of support a local non league team already then I urge you to go more regularly as it will be good for your soul.

But what about the rest of us like me who don't have it and can't manufacture it? We need something we feel a sense of belonging to, and a grassroots LFC run by and for Liverpool fans is the only thing that I can think of that would do it for me.
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Old 08-02-08, 01:24 PM   #29
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ages ages ago i went on a random pisstake rant and predicted the future of football in a thread on here - it was over a year ago and went largely unnoticed but with what is happening at the moment it keeps popping into my mind again - although i went ott and tongue in cheek with the rant, the basics of it are very relevant. I will try and find it, but basically it ended up that the premier league went world wide and fans rebeled by created a "fans premier league" consisteng of FC United AFC Liverpool etc etc
i think thats very plausible actually
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Old 08-02-08, 01:24 PM   #30
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Just I have no connection with them mate. Its the LFC link (and I know it'd only be a link) that would give me a sense of belonging and partisanship. That is, this is the grassroots team for and owned by Liverpool fans.

Marine is just some club. I'd love to be able to go and support them and care, but I wouldn't. I don't have any link to them at all. And you can't manufacture passion can you.

When FC United started up, Leigh RMI asked them to buy them out because Leigh were in problems etc. FC United thought it over and declined yet have friendlies with them pre season to generate cash for Leigh etc.

Maybe one of the current clubs would seek a partnership in the same way and then I'd have reason to support them, but I'm sure if I was an Evertonian Marine fan that'd be no different to what we're going through.

I think a separate club makes sense. If any of you have a partisan sense of support a local non league team already then I urge you to go more regularly as it will be good for your soul.

But what about the rest of us like me who don't have it and can't manufacture it? We need something we feel a sense of belonging to, and a grassroots LFC run by and for Liverpool fans is the only thing that I can think of that would do it for me.

Ok - no problem - I hope your idea gets off the ground.
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Old 08-02-08, 01:28 PM   #31
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Ok - no problem - I hope your idea gets off the ground.
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Old 08-02-08, 01:33 PM   #32
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Old 08-02-08, 01:34 PM   #33
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Its the LFC link (and I know it'd only be a link) that would give me a sense of belonging and partisanship. That is, this is the grassroots team for and owned by Liverpool fans.
Doesn't sound like it would involve Liverpool fans though. Liverpool fans who've given up on Liverpool and started supporting a lower league team. The connection would be that everyone involved had a chip on their shoulder about Liverpool FC. Doesn't sound like a group I'd like to be involved in tbh.

If I wanted to watch crap football, i'd go to my local park. I want to watch pass and move, world class players like kenny, Barnes, Gerrard and Torres.
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Old 08-02-08, 01:39 PM   #34
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Doesn't sound like it would involve Liverpool fans though. Liverpool fans who've given up on Liverpool and started supporting a lower league team. The connection would be that everyone involved had a chip on their shoulder about Liverpool FC. Doesn't sound like a group I'd like to be involved in tbh.

If I wanted to watch crap football, i'd go to my local park. I want to watch pass and move, world class players like kenny, Barnes, Gerrard and Torres.
Doesn't sound like I'd want you involved. So don't worry about it. Move on.
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Old 08-02-08, 01:40 PM   #35
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Doesn't sound like I'd want you involved. So don't worry about it. Move on.
I'm crushed.
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Old 08-02-08, 01:46 PM   #36
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the thought of no lfc in my life would of horrified me years ago but it has got to the point when i dont feel the same connection anymore the money in the game is taking it away from the type of fan who i go to the match with, its a struggle to afford the annual season ticket increase which happens regardless of the previous years peformance the heart and soul is being pulled out of the club i love and many people on here are blind to that so what is the answer maybe it lies in what alun suggests or give up on the reds altogether only time will tell
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Old 08-02-08, 01:50 PM   #37
Dan
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Good luck with this Alun
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Old 08-02-08, 01:50 PM   #38
Kenneth
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Originally Posted by rodo View Post
the thought of no lfc in my life would of horrified me years ago but it has got to the point when i dont feel the same connection anymore the money in the game is taking it away from the type of fan who i go to the match with, its a struggle to afford the annual season ticket increase which happens regardless of the previous years peformance the heart and soul is being pulled out of the club i love and many people on here are blind to that so what is the answer maybe it lies in what alun suggests or give up on the reds altogether only time will tell
Where have you been for the last decade?
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Old 08-02-08, 01:54 PM   #39
serenejim
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Absolutely not interested in this. Much too like FC united or whatever they call themselves. Don't go there mate. We already have a club to support. It' LFC. We got over Heysel and Hillsborough and we will get over these Yank bastards.
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Old 08-02-08, 01:55 PM   #40
rodo
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Where have you been for the last decade?
row 21 in the lower centenary
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