VAR thread

[Mr Pink]

It will get more efficient as time goes by. I think it's OK. I'm glad snide fouls like the pull on Salah are going to get picked up.

The first reply in the thread, this one aged well, so far

[Mr Pink]

I feel like they write the rules to have enough grey area that they won’t be able to come under unanimous criticism when they get it wrong- it’s always a matter of opinion and you always have some idiot like carragher on Monday saying that it was a clear foul but not enough to overrule the ref. Like what the **** is it there for? Yes the referee got it wrong but not wrong enough for var to correct it?!

Can’t remember who, but heard a pundit over the weekend say it’s not there to re-referee the game. Ehhh it’s there to correct decisions, that the referee got wrong, what does “re-referee” mean exactly, if not that?

What exactly does clear and obvious mean, in the context of refereeing decisions? Is clear and obvious not the same thing? Can we have cases where it was a clear mistake but not an obvious mistake, or it was an obvious mistake but not a clear mistake? And when var sees that it is a clear AND obvious mistake…. They then tell the ref to come check the monitor and decide for himself. If it’s a clear and obvious mistake why would you need the ref to confirm? Surely var people know the rules of the game- if it’s clear and obvious just overrule it, and don’t waste more time.

I think there should be 3 scenarios:
1) It’s clear that the ref got it right, play on.
2) it’s clear that he got it wrong, overrule it.
3) anything else, have the referee check the monitor and if it’s still the wrong decision, it’s on him.

I feel like they designed it so that noones to blame when they make a **** up. Like on monday is it the refs fault or vars fault? From the refs standpoint, he had one viewing of it, he wasn’t 100.0000% sure so left the game flow and var should intervene if he was wrong, and from their standpoint it supposedly wasn’t enough to overrule the ref, so the on field decision stands- if the ref had given the penalty it wouldn’t have been overruled either.

When var was being rolled out it was pros and cons. The cons were that it slows the game down, and takes a lot of the excitement out of goals, as the fans sit with held breath for 15/20 seconds after each goal. Remember the days of klopp going buck daft after goals- now by the time he’s sure the goal counts, the moments gone. The pros were supposedly that all bad decisions would be fixed- we wouldn’t be blaming dropped points on crappy refereeing decisions. I remember 6 months before it was rolled out, when kompany(I think) hacked down Salah at the ethiad when he woulda been through 1 on 1, from about the halfway line. I remember thinking after that if var was in place he’d have been sent off and we’d have gone on to win the game and gone on to win the title- but honestly I’m not sure they would have gotten it right. It really feels like there’s more contentious decisions these days than before VAR was introduced. So the pros aren’t there, but the cons still are!

And also this is our 5th season using var and it doesn’t seem to be any better now than the first season. We could understand issues the first year or two, but it should be air tight by now

[Cerbie]

Great post Mr Pink.

There are elements of tech that work well, goal line is fine.

The PL seem to have chosen not to adopt the FIFA offside system, and are relying on humans to draw lines - humans make mistakes... I still think they used the wrong defender in ruling Mo’s goal out on Sunday btw. Was watching on a stream but it looked like the shaded area went back to the defender closest to Mo and not the right back.

Clear and obvious is entirely subjective, so they have all the tech in the world and they will still get it wrong a lot of the time.

The focus should be on refereeing the game correctly, not protecting the Ref on the park.

The hand ball decision on Sunday was a joke, since when have ****ing Jazz Hands been a natural position for anyone?? Not referring it to the monitor was a failure by the VAR ref Coote who has previous form with us.

Finally, just mike them up and make the process transparent. We want to hear the process and know it is fair and unbiased.

[S-RED]

if they made it transparent & were miked up they would be ****ed, as there bias would be out there for all to see; hence their reluctance to go to the next step & allow us to hear audio.

[ric.williams]

var is merely an additional layer of inconsistency

[Cerbie]

var is merely an additional layer of inconsistency

Agreed. It had the potential to be a lot more, but they have ****ed the implementation up royally.

[danperkins]

var is merely an additional layer of inconsistency

Currently yes it does seem that way

[red g]

var is merely an additional layer of inconsistency

and another layer to help the big teams. I guarantee if it was the Wolves keeper and United needed the goal it would have been given.

[S-RED]

Just when will refs ever become fully accountable, layers & layers of support they have now & Mac alister & bream both get **** reds today; its bonkers

[rudedog]

Horse****!

[ChesterDave]

Just when will refs ever become fully accountable, layers & layers of support they have now & Mac alister & bream both get **** reds today; its bonkers

But you are to respect how difficult it is to get the correct decision with the aid of slow motion replays from eleventy billion angles.i mean, honestly, they'd starve to death on performance related pay. The rest of us would be out on our arse with job performance so poor

[Fivex]

Quoting this in here from the match thread.

Have a read - seems to prove beyond doubt that we get a raw deal from a certain group of refs.

Tomkins article on how we are refereed compared to other sides

https://tomkinstimes.substack.com/p/...l-are-refereed

[kingfunk]

This sums it up for me.
“ Liverpool Thought Bank writes:

By overturning the Mac Allister red card, the FA is admitting three things:

- their on-field referee made a terrible decision. AGAIN.
- the VAR system watched the replay 5 times and didn't do anything about the mistake. AGAIN.
- 4 referees together couldn't find a difference between a simple tackle and red card offense in 5 mins. AGAIN.

This put Liverpool in the danger of losing a game from a 2-1 lead, in a league so closely fought that Liverpool have recently lost 2 titles on the final day, by 1 point. Absolutely abhorrent and incompetent running of the sport with no plan for fixing it. It's the same thing every week and always affects Liverpool the most. But they will ban Klopp for 2 games instantly if he if speaks about it. Howard Webb should send an apology for this like he did to Wolverhampton, and Liverpool should publicly reject it. His resignation is the only good apology, never the right man for the job.”

[RichC]

With VAR I think it was Stephen Warnock that said it should be is the decision right or not, forget about the "clear and obvious" rubbish which for me is intend to protect the refs rather than get the decisions right. VAR itself isn't the issue it is the implementation of it that's wrong. Rugby a sport that has nowhere the financial backing should be what football is trying to emulate instead of creating their own clearly flawed use of it.

[Norbs]

With VAR I think it was Stephen Warnock that said it should be is the decision right or not, forget about the "clear and obvious" rubbish which for me is intend to protect the refs rather than get the decisions right. VAR itself isn't the issue it is the implementation of it that's wrong. Rugby a sport that has nowhere the financial backing should be what football is trying to emulate instead of creating their own clearly flawed use of it.

I said something similar recently. VAR was introduced to help referees right decisions that had been wrong. Then they realised that their delicate egos would be affected by the process of being corrected

https://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/sho...67&postcount=6

Clear and obvious error should be binned. It doesn't matter if the referee missed something or got it wrong, it's about getting decisions right. Ultimately