Clive Tyldesley on Hillsborough. Sit or Stand? Good read.

[The Glove]

It was very safe but then the Germans are all very sensible people who don't turn up at a match pissed out their brains and with a problem with stewards/authority ,so it obviously works with no problem.

I'm not sure it'd work here and even if they reintroduced it I wouldn't risk it.

It wouldnt work here because of why you have said. I get enough grief trying to get people to try and not push and force their way in the ground, never mind trying to do anything inside the ground.

[redpablo]

as in - a lad in front of us was standing up all the time, was told to sit down by my mate and the lad started on him. it got very heated, bit of grabbing and us lot and his mates had to pull apart before the stewards kicked us all out. in the end they were best of mates by the final whistle as we all started bantering them both to kiss and make up etc.
maybe didnt make myself clear there, soz.

[The Glove]

as in - a lad in front of us was standing up all the time, was told to sit down by my mate and the lad started on him. it got very heated, bit of grabbing and us lot and his mates had to pull apart before the stewards kicked us all out. in the end they were best of mates by the final whistle as we all started bantering them both to kiss and make up etc.
maybe didnt make myself clear there, soz.

No probs mate, was this in the Kop?

[redpablo]

nah mate, main stand, close to the away fans. kind of would expected more standing in the kop and better manners! Alls well in the end and all that, but its the confusion and inconsistency that leads to problems. I know its technically ruel breaking, but still, it happens a lot, I stand meself from time to time depending on who's around me ie if there's loads of kids and families I'll sit pretty much the whole match so as not to ruin anyone else's enjoyment. Hard to do if we're on form and attacking the **** outta the opposition or against the bitters or mancs..

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I'm too fecking old now to be standing all game. The Derby was a nightmare especially with a hangover.

[anfieldanfield]

Article by Paul Wilson in the Observer today...

It was appropriate that images reminiscent of Hillsborough should surface in a week when Manchester United fans protested about paying £45 to get into Craven Cottage, and a number of Premiership clubs announced price reductions for next season. Because Hillsborough is where it all began. All-seat stadiums might have been an appropriate and necessary response to a dreadful tragedy, but they changed football in ways that few could have foreseen at the time.

Article continues

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lord Justice Taylor tried his best, specifically recommending that clubs should not use seats as a means of ramping up prices, but his wishes were ignored and seats, wages, television deals and almost everything else have been ramped up to a level that everyone in Life on Mars except John Simm would find staggering.
Yet as events at Lens so vividly demonstrated, seats in themselves are no panacea. Not when fences still exist, Uefa stage games at unsatisfactory venues as if Heysel had never happened and the police default mode is to treat all fans as hooligans. Even in this country, where the high cost of seats is rather loftily held to have solved the hooliganism problem now plaguing Italy (by pricing out the young and the troublesome), being forced to sit down is proving divisive. Hardly a game goes by at Anfield or Old Trafford without repeated Tannoy requests for fans to show consideration for other supporters and sit down. There is nothing more annoying than paying a fortune for a seat then being forced to stand because people in front of you are standing, and this ongoing argument itself is likely to provoke a major disturbance before long.

So should we bring back standing areas, as more than 100 MPs have requested? I would say yes, because they improve atmosphere, allow easier and cheaper admission, are still enjoyed in Europe and in other sports, and need not be considered inherently dangerous in modern stadiums with CCTV and improved stewarding. But I was not at Hillsborough, nor did I lose a friend or relative in the crush, and I fully respect the view that even a slight risk of a repeat is too much of a risk to take.

The time has arrived for a rational debate on the issue, if such a thing is possible in football.

In theory at least, standing areas offer the hope of turning back the clock to a time when the cost of admission to a football ground did not exclude anyone, when you could choose your immediate company, make as much noise as you wanted and feel part of a crowd rather than a member of an audience. All the things that used to distinguish football from a visit to the theatre, in other words. Clubs used to peddle the line that they were offering similar entertainment to the theatre and were entitled to charge similar prices to seat spectators in comfort, but this is clearly nonsense. Half the fans don't want to be seated, in any case who goes to the theatre every week, and how many theatre-goers make away trips to Sunderland and Wigan?

Football has always been about making money but, now it is knee-deep in the stuff, another thing you don't hear so much these days is that it needs to be run more like a business. It could do with being run less like a business for a while, and more along the lines of a national asset, like a park or a listed building, that should be accessible to all.

It is unlikely that the freedoms supporters took for granted two or three decades ago will ever return and perhaps there are pressing reasons why they should not. There is little point in pretending that standing was completely wonderful. Yet a debate might result in some useful compromise. If all-seat stadiums must stay, why not reserve some tickets for sale on the day of the game on a first-come, first-served basis as they do in Germany? Away fans, who have already incurred expense travelling to the game, should not be asked to pay any more than the cost of the cheapest home ticket. There might even be scope to go further and accept the Football Supporters' Federation's idea to set a cap of £15 on away tickets next season. Much stricter action needs to be taken against people who stand in seated areas and much more could be done to make tickets not only affordable but available to young people, who do not always have the resources to wait in telephone queues and pay by credit card.

[FoxForceFive]

much more could be done to make tickets not only affordable but available to young people, who do not always have the resources to wait in telephone queues and pay by credit card.

That's key for me in keeping the game at a high level, I was lucky enough to attend every home game bar one between 13-16 & a helluva lot before that, all with my mates & my pocket money (£4.50) in the standing kop having queued for the privilege.

There needs to be affordable tickets on the gate for every game, standing or seating, in order to keep at least some of the games roots in place.