The wingers question...

[Craig_H]

So you think Rafa should abandon everything that has made him the successfull manager that he is and just commit more boies into the box to suit you, because you could do the job better?.

Yes, i clearly said that i could do the job better...



Where do we GET these people?

[nbryan1764]

Kinell mate, is it not obvious that HAVING the ability to beat the man gives you a greater chance of being good enough, than not having that ability does?

Beckham was a one-off really, how many other players play out wide, dont beat their man, and yet are considered one of the best 'wingers' in the league?

The not beating the man is the ONLY thing Beckham and JP have in common. Beckham was INFINITELY better than Pennant, his crosses and deadballs were superb. Pennant is nowhere near as good.
It was a daft comment on your part. I dont mean to have a go, but seriously, it was silly.

but you said "Pennant seems to have developed a kind of Beckham-esque abiility to put a cross in without beating the man, which i dont mind."

Rather than have a go at people for asking to explain you should not be so ambiguous.

I happen to agree with you regarding wingers beating players but it is a bit rude implying people are thick because they don't agree with you especially when, whatever they say they have to be disagreeing with one of your statements!! He either can cross like Beckham or he can't! Thats the simple one

[mikeg]

by the way have you noticed that when ever one of our wingers DO beat a man and race up the pitch he is normally on his own and theres never any one in the centre to pass too

we are too slow to support them even when they do what you want them to do

[bazza76]

You wouldnt agree though, that dealing with a low, fast cross from the byline, while racing back and facing your own goal, is as dangerous a cross as you'd probably have to deal with?

Fact remains, the lads maybe have not got the confidence to do this yet.
Yes in an ideal world our wide players would be beating the defenders and whipping in crosses all the time and driving into the box and scoring screamers, fact remains though, we have not got the players at present to do this. Bellamy actually does do this sometimes now that I thonk of it, but im sure Rafa will set about getting higher quality on the wings in the summer. Get over it.

[Craig_H]

but you said "Pennant seems to have developed a kind of Beckham-esque abiility to put a cross in without beating the man, which i dont mind."

Rather than have a go at people for asking to explain you should not be so ambiguous.

I happen to agree with you regarding wingers beating players but it is a bit rude implying people are thick because they don't agree with you especially when, whatever they say they have to be disagreeing with one of your statements!! He either can cross like Beckham or he can't! Thats the simple one

He crosses from deep, like Beckham did.

He crosses a lot less accurately though, unlike Beckham.

It wasnt that complicated. I dont mind him crossing from deep, but if he's gonna do that alone and not beat the man, he needs to cross with more accuracy. It has to be pinpoint.

He needs to mix it up. From deep sometimes, and beat the man sometimes.

[bazza76]

Yes, i clearly said that i could do the job better...



Where do we GET these people?

well your harping on enough about how we should be getting more bodies into the box .................
Rafa obviously doesn't agree if the team isnt doing so. I guess it depends on the situation we find ourselves in, be it chasing a game or not.

[Craig_H]

by the way have you noticed that when ever one of our wingers DO beat a man and race up the pitch he is normally on his own and theres never any one in the centre to pass too

we are too slow to support them even when they do what you want them to do

That's where you need a CM to be busting a gut to get into the box mate, ala Scholes, Cahill etc. Gerrard will do this when playing CM.

When he isnt, Alonso or Momo has to do it.

[nbryan1764]

He crosses from deep, like Beckham did.

He crosses a lot less accurately though, unlike Beckham.

It wasnt that complicated. I dont mind him crossing from deep, but if he's gonna do that alone and not beat the man, he needs to cross with more accuracy. It has to be pinpoint.

He needs to mix it up. From deep sometimes, and beat the man sometimes.

ah so what you should have said, if I have interpreted correctly, is that he has developed a Beckhamesque ability to cross the ball but the end product is still **** in comparison??

[Craig_H]

well your harping on enough about how we should be getting more bodies into the box .................
Rafa obviously doesn't agree if the team isnt doing so. I guess it depends on the situation we find ourselves in, be it chasing a game or not.

We're gonna finish 20 plus points off the top and as things stand, have scored the least goals out of the top four.

Maybe i might have a point about people getting into the box and posing a goal threat, eh?

[marcgerard]

Difficulty with an early cross for us at present is that we have strikers that tend to be very deep and are nt in the penalty box when the opportunities arise. I would like to see our crossing from the byline more often, and from the bits I saw last season I think this is what Rafa thought Gonzalez would bring. I think Riise's run of bad form has had an effect in that he is not really supporting the winger, meaning the defence can set themselves for an inside ball as there is nt an option outside. If Riise is overlapping then it draws at least a defender out of position and probably a tracking midfielder too. We certainly do not see this as much away from home, nor against the stronger teams.

Personally, I think it is the narrrowing of our play that remains a problem, both seem drawn inside. However, there is a developing understnading between Pennant and Gerrard who often plays Pennant in as close to the touch line as possible.

[Jack D Rips]

You wouldnt agree though, that dealing with a low, fast cross from the byline, while racing back and facing your own goal, is as dangerous a cross as you'd probably have to deal with?

If it is hit with pace it can be as good. But invariably I think that crosses from the byline lack the pace necessary to unsettle defenders. We'll have to agree to disagree.

[Craig_H]

ah so what you should have said, if I have interpreted correctly, is that he has developed a Beckhamesque ability to cross the ball but the end product is still **** in comparison??

I wouldnt call it '****' because that's harsh, but i suppose in comparison to beckham, who was nearly always on the money, i guess you could say '****'.

When you cross from deep, the defenders will usually be set in their positions and ready to deal with it, with numbers back.

Obviously, this means that your cross has to be very accurate.

[Craig_H]

If it is hit with pace it can be as good. But invariably I think that crosses from the byline lack the pace necessary to unsettle defenders. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I wasnt suggesting slow crosses from the byline mate, what i'm on about IS low, hard crosses from the byline, leaving defenders facing their own goal, with little time to think, and a quick, low, difficult-to-control cross to deal with.

[Craig_H]

Difficulty with an early cross for us at present is that we have strikers that tend to be very deep and are nt in the penalty box when the opportunities arise. I would like to see our crossing from the byline more often, and from the bits I saw last season I think this is what Rafa thought Gonzalez would bring. I think Riise's run of bad form has had an effect in that he is not really supporting the winger, meaning the defence can set themselves for an inside ball as there is nt an option outside. If Riise is overlapping then it draws at least a defender out of position and probably a tracking midfielder too. We certainly do not see this as much away from home, nor against the stronger teams.

Personally, I think it is the narrrowing of our play that remains a problem, both seem drawn inside. However, there is a developing understnading between Pennant and Gerrard who often plays Pennant in as close to the touch line as possible.

That's the other thing i've been going on about mate, numbers in the box.

Some people seem to disagree with me on it.

[bazza76]

That's where you need a CM to be busting a gut to get into the box mate, ala Scholes, Cahill etc. Gerrard will do this when playing CM.

When he isnt, Alonso or Momo has to do it.

Why do you think we have been so good defensively under Rafa?
Because we play with two central midfielders playing in front of the back four, with momo getting about more than Alonso generally pressurising the opposition. You are again asking Rafa to abandon his approach to suit your needs, Rafa has been successfull with this formation and approach in the past, he wil be successful again, we can not just turn into an average Permiership team tactically just to get one player into the box more often than not. Rafa will do things HIS way, which means being solid defensively first while keeping an attacking intent, which we have.