S*it on a stick!

[Guest]

Arsenal play counter attacking football. It is not of itself an insult.

Every top team play counter attacking football but they can as well keep the ball and pressurize teams, so does Rafa's current team. Houllier's teams were one dimensional.

[Guest]

and the best counter attacking player in the World, Owen.

It was so good until you mentionned him.

[checkpoint]

Valdano is a ******.

And what has HE won as a manager? He won the spanish league ONCE with RM in 1995, a side that included Hierro, Luis Enrique, Ivan Zamarano and Manuel Sanchis (among others).

If he could have brought at least a couple of European Champions medals to the table, fair enough.

But he can't.

AGAIN there's the discussion about ugly football before a final, with the 'gourmet' end of the football community supporting Milan. As they did in 2005. Before the UEFA Cup Final in 2001 it was the same.

What was the result? Two of the most exciting finals played in european football history.

I'm not saying that the Liverpool v Chelsea was a pleasure to watch, but I think the team that's NOT playing the final should take much of the blame for that.

[Resu]

He won`t respond, and why should he?

[AFII]

It was so good until you mentionned him.

He was the best counter attacking player before his injuries. Houllier used him in the best possible way, or what he thought was the best possible way.

Lyon plays in a totally different way. The point is that Houllier used what he had at Liverpool, a good defensive team and now he uses what he has at Lyon, a very good attacking team.

If Rafa signs the right attacking players then we will play more attacking football away from Anfield IMO because the players he then will have allows him to do that.

[Guest]

He was the best counter attacking player before his injuries. Houllier used him in the best possible way, or what he thought was the best possible way.

Lyon plays in a totally different way. The point is that Houllier used what he had at Liverpool, a good defensive team and now he uses what he has at Lyon, a very good attacking team.

If Rafa signs the right attacking players then we will play more attacking football away from Anfield IMO because the players he then will have allows him to do that.

I obviously don't agree with Owen. Good little player but one dimensional and to be honest, he's never been able to cut it really at international level where he looked limited at best.

Anyway, it's just boring discussing Owen and I will stop right now.

[carrsim]

Funny how Real Madrid wanted both Rafa and Mourinho to take over from Capello.

exactly

and has he even watched his own club under capello? hardly champagne football. it's only barca'a relative fall from grace that madrid are even in with a sniff of the title this year.

still, i'm sure he'll be watching with envy on the 23rd

[Dhav]

I think Valdano is being extremely presumptuous, although he does make some pertinent points.

What amazes me is the way people were drooling over United beating Bolton, yet 3 of their 4 goals were scored on blistering counter attacks. IMO the difference between us and Man U, Arsenal is that they play with technical and quick players who pass the ball quickly and move forward quickly, which is why they score far more counter attacking goals and seemingly play better football.

We are far more methodical, when the ball goes forward, our whole team goes forward together, when the ball goes back the whole team goes back - we are extremely compact, but I dont think we have the type of players to play the short,quick passing and moving game that Arse and Scum play.

Personally I think we are capable of playing some excellent stuff, and on our day we are far more entertaining than Chelsea (although granted not up there with Arse and Scum), but in the big European games and against stronger teams Rafa plays the tactics to win. Unfortunately there was too much long ball last Tuesday, but I dont know if that was tactics, nerves/pressure or a combination of both.

[Rashid]

I think Valdano is being extremely presumptuous, although he does make some pertinent points.

What amazes me is the way people were drooling over United beating Bolton, yet 3 of their 4 goals were scored on blistering counter attacks. IMO the difference between us and Man U, Arsenal is that they play with technical and quick players who pass the ball quickly and move forward quickly, which is why they score far more counter attacking goals and seemingly play better football.

We are far more methodical, when the ball goes forward, our whole team goes forward together, when the ball goes back the whole team goes back - we are extremely compact, but I dont think we have the type of players to play the short,quick passing and moving game that Arse and Scum play.

Personally I think we are capable of playing some excellent stuff, and on our day we are far more entertaining than Chelsea (although granted not up there with Arse and Scum), but in the big European games and against stronger teams Rafa plays the tactics to win. Unfortunately there was too much long ball last Tuesday, but I dont know if that was tactics, nerves/pressure or a combination of both.

That's the whole point though! It's not about the counter attacking but about the long balls and aggressive football... we complain about Bolton just like Madrid complain about us. The shoes on the other foot.

[Lecter]

Yes, but I prefer we win it in style, like the halcyon days of John Barnes, Beardsley ... That was a team, the best ever.

Barnes and Beardsley never won the CL

That was certainly the most attractive side we ever had but for me you would be hard pushed to beat the 78 side and in many respects Rafa's style of play echoes that of Paisleys teams

[bazza76]

Do you think Man United and Arsenal find it difficult playing good football in this country? Hasn't the team playing the best football just won our league?

Im not saying its not impossible to play attractive football in England and not win anything, far from it.
All I was referring to is the point you made that Barca. have to play good football, and I said this was easier to achieve successfully in Spain when players get more time to show off their skills on the ball.
However, I do prefer the higher tempo football personally, and the intensity that goes along with it, even if it means sacrificing some technique as a result.

[Lecter]

I actually think that the philosophy is closer to keep the ball and control the game first. Rafas Valencia played sublime football at times (notably against us). I think it is about getting players who are intelligent enough to know when to use their skills.

I fully agree with that

Rafa is VERY like Paisley in tactics

Keep things tight, press the opposition, but dont give away anything

Patience was always the watch word at Anfield during the late 70's and early 80's. How often did we virtually bore teams to death before nicking a 1-0 win

The only thing I will say about Rafa is hes not adverse to doing anything to win. If it means punting long balls then he will do it

[Guest]

Barnes and Beardsley never won the CL

That was certainly the most attractive side we ever had but for me you would be hard pushed to beat the 78 side and in many respects Rafa's style of play echoes that of Paisleys teams

Sure they never won it, we were banned ! :bird:

[CAD]

I think success is important and Real Madrid have had none of itrecently, however, it ****ing grates being classed as a bunch of long ball merchants. This is not the Liverpool Way at all is it? Often we can't even string two passes together, and Riise and Carragher love to hoof it to Crouch.

Not only do we need to look at the players we buy but also our style, who is actually happy with our style? And why do people keep mentioning Valencia? They were a good team but also a defensive one, and in Spain that is quite rare.

Finally for every Liverpool and Chelsea (Success winning ugly) there is a Barcelona and Manchester United. I guess you can win both ways.

Would you please stop the references to your old website?!

[Guest]

I fully agree with that

Rafa is VERY like Paisley in tactics

Keep things tight, press the opposition, but dont give away anything

Patience was always the watch word at Anfield during the late 70's and early 80's. How often did we virtually bore teams to death before nicking a 1-0 win

The only thing I will say about Rafa is hes not adverse to doing anything to win. If it means punting long balls then he will do it

I was too young to remember the Paisley teams of the late seventies or early eighties, though I watched a fair few matches on videos afterwards, but they weren't full matches, just snippets of goals etc ... So I can't compare both teams.

I would think that Rafa's team is much closer to the AC Milan side of the 1990's than ours in 80's.