Is Benitez about to be found out…?

[Guest]

for the sake of argument and I know you're probably a wind up but here we go

No wind up I assure you.

Something that has crossed my mind and I wanted to share.

Now the facts don’t lie we are in our second Champions league final in three
years and on the brink of out third major trophy in three seasons under Benitez.
This is great case for celebration. However that aside is there a case to be
made to say he is just a very lucky manager who has flattered to deceive
on his way to getting humbled badly by a great Milan side in 2 weeks time??

If Rafa's lucky then i'd love to have his lucky ballies



Firstly, the league doesn’t lie and we have been average at best with no real
signs of major improvement that we all had hoped for especially this season.
And don’t forget Rafa was brought in on the basis of his league credentials
not his cup success. Parry wanted a man who could produce the good quickly
on the pitch on a limited budget. And by all accounts in the league at least
Benitez has failed this miserably.

True, but we are competing against the moneybags teams in Chelsea and the Scum, who either had a very long time to form their team an astounding amount of money to buil the squad, or one of those special players who changes games and nets 30 goals a season (we're still waiting for one of those, so lets judge it a bit better when Rafa gets some cash behind him, we all know what the transfers turned out like last summer.

The one problem there is Rafa has never liked to play the 30 goal a season player who grabs all the headlines. Its all about the team. I still think he wouldn't have minded selling Gerrard. So that leaves us with the building a team over a long period option. Newsflash its been 3 yrs and we are not getting any closer

Secondly, how good have we been in Europe? 2 years ago it took a Gerrard
wonder goal against a rubbish Greek outfit to scrape out of the group. Then
we beat a completely depleted Bayer L side and a Juve team we now know
had bought their success. We scraped by Chelsea in a very tight affair that
could have gone either way.

Then the final, we got absolutely battered for 55 mins should have been 4
down only for Milan to completely take their eye off the ball. Rafa got it
seriously wrong and only for an incredibly twist of fate we would have been
embarrassed for all of Europe to see.

Two years ago we had a pretty **** side correct, but surely it's credit to rafa
and the star players he had that we go to the final and then made the amazing come back, once could be considered lucky maybe, twice in two yrs and your having a laff



Last year we went out to a very average Benfica side getting beat 2-0 at home.

Can't win em all mate, what you want us to do get the final every year, lets not forget the same benfica knocked out the mancs who then won the league this season so it means ****

And even this year it could be argued we beat, a Barca team in turmoil, a
very poor PSV side and a Chelsea team exhausted by their mammoth campaign.

Again where rafa's lucky ballies, because if they engineer a great performance away to barca and an even better one at home to chelsea, plus cruising comfortably through our group with a game to spare then i really want a pair
Barca were very poor over both legs and thank God Messi wasn't fit. As for the Chelsea game, they were ****e, one demenisonal (i.e boot it to Drogba and pray he nicks us a goal) and we still only managed the victory on penos
Could Milan finally set the record straight by whipping the floor with us and
showing up Benitez as nothing more than a decent cup manager with poor
man management skills, poor record in the transfer market and an even
poorer one in the league? (We’ve been effective out of the title by Oct
each year in the last three)

wouldn't be a very good cup manager if we lost would he, poor transfers? now i know you're a windup, again fair coment about the league just, but hopefully thats two third place finishes, so we aren't exactly going backwards
He wasn't brought in to stay static in third he was brought in to win it. He hasn't even challenged yet. And his transfers haven't been great at all. Still no 20 goals a season striker, No wingers, no full back cover.

Finally as I briefly mentioned above, Benitez’s man management must be called
into question when our best player for 20 yrs was within a whisker of
leaving, every striker we get turns to ****e, instantly it would seem. Even
Kuyt seems to have only one shooting boot on most of the time.

I have just realised you are a definate piss take and questioning wether I should even bother posting this reply, but it's written now so might as well

Is it not true that the Gerrard saga was managed terribly by Rafa. Cisse is another example, h's a player that needed an arm around the shoulder not the cold one Rafa dished out. He's a great tactics man, but seems to lack when it comes to man management in my eyes

So is the truth that we allow are trying to deny or is this just a very negative
one sided look at it?

I hope it’s the latter.

Time will tell.

hopefully


__________________

Oh come on, that's not progressive.

[Mr Tourette]

I think thats fair comment, however it probably won't happen next season either cos i think there will be more than a few changes to our squad before we get it right, which will probably see us more in the mix the season after that.

What i find better now is that there isn't really a match i go into thinking we can't win this one, which is the attitude i would have had to a lot of matches in rafa's first season. I think we're comfortably confident in beating the vast majority of the league now, except for maybe the away trips to the mnacs, chavs and arsenal, but even then we're still capable of doing them over

i like watching us now. At the end of GH era - it had gotten terrible. Really depressing. But now i totally agree, i think we can beat anyone on the day and perhaps just lack a bit more attacking flair to break down defensive teams in the league - something you dont necessarily need in Europe over 2 legs - hence the success.

Hes doing it gradually - and im so glad we won in istanbul - because if were honest he could be under a fair bit of pressure if we hadnt - we are a long way behind again in the league.

Anyway, on the whole i dont mind his signings within his budget and when he buys a dud - he gets rid. Unlike Houllier. I dont think there is a better bloke in the world for the job - no one can just click there fingers and make us champions - No one, and Benitez has to be in the top 5 coaches in the world in the last five years anyway.....

[Dreambeliever]

I think that you have discovered that it is possible to put a negative and positive spin on everything. If I were you I'd chuck my CV in the direction of West London.................

Juve bought their success? Yes, but they were still a top side. A depleted Bayer side who eased through a group including Real Madrid.Madrid were awful in 05, and Bayer lost basically all their attacking players for those games. A Chelsea team who were at their imperious best. And a Milan side that played stunning football when given the freedom of the pitch and who had no plan B when Kaka was nullified, Err, the fact that Traore cleared off the line and Dudek made a God like save passed you by did it?? Not to mention sheva's free kickdespite them having the best strikeforce in Europe, and a far better one than they have now.

Will we beat Milan? Well I would say that and game between two top sides can go either way, so it's not a forgone conclusion. However, we are a beter side than we were in 2005, whilst Milan have aged and lost Sheva and Crespo.

I must say I'm confident. Also after beating Chelsea this year in the prem we were 8 points behind Man Utd and had we beat Everton I could have seen us keeping up the pressure on them and Chelsea. We didn't and the team lost the heart for it and turned their attention to Europe.

[Red_Polo]

Err, the fact that Traore cleared off the line

So if a player intends to do something, then does exactly that, you call that luck do you? ****ing hell.

[Dreambeliever]

i think its very likely your a very bored united fan.

There is no way you can convince me we were a better side 3 years go, however disappointing it is we havent got closer to the title.

Never said we were, my point is we are as far away now from winning the thing as we were then. Yes we have improved alot but so have united and Chelsea.

And your assumption of me being anything but a LFC fan is wide off the mark.

[dww]

Again where rafa's lucky ballies, because if they engineer a great performance away to barca and an even better one at home to chelsea, plus cruising comfortably through our group with a game to spare then i really want a pair
Barca were very poor over both legs and thank God Messi wasn't fit. As for the Chelsea game, they were ****e, one demenisonal (i.e boot it to Drogba and pray he nicks us a goal) and we still only managed the victory on penos
Could Milan finally set the record straight by whipping the floor with us and
showing up Benitez as nothing more than a decent cup manager with poor
man management skills, poor record in the transfer market and an even
poorer one in the league? (We’ve been effective out of the title by Oct
each year in the last three)
__________________

Could it be that we played well limiting Barcelona to playing poorly?
We made Man United look below average at Anfield but lost. We are very, very good at stopping other teams playing. Not just defending in our box but preventing teams starting attacks as well. We need to add creativity.

When you are lucky repeatedly then more often than not you are not lucky but good.

[Farside]

Something that has crossed my mind and I wanted to share.

Now the facts don’t lie we are in our second Champions league final in three
years and on the brink of out third major trophy in three seasons under Benitez.
This is great case for celebration. However that aside is there a case to be
made to say he is just a very lucky manager who has flattered to deceive
on his way to getting humbled badly by a great Milan side in 2 weeks time??

Firstly, the league doesn’t lie and we have been average at best with no real
signs of major improvement that we all had hoped for especially this season.
And don’t forget Rafa was brought in on the basis of his league credentials
not his cup success. Parry wanted a man who could produce the good quickly
on the pitch on a limited budget. And by all accounts in the league at least
Benitez has failed this miserably.

Secondly, how good have we been in Europe? 2 years ago it took a Gerrard
wonder goal against a rubbish Greek outfit to scrape out of the group. Then
we beat a completely depleted Bayer L side and a Juve team we now know
had bought their success. We scraped by Chelsea in a very tight affair that
could have gone either way.

Then the final, we got absolutely battered for 55 mins should have been 4
down only for Milan to completely take their eye off the ball. Rafa got it
seriously wrong and only for an incredibly twist of fate we would have been
embarrassed for all of Europe to see.

Last year we went out to a very average Benfica side getting beat 2-0 at home.
And even this year it could be argued we beat, a Barca team in turmoil, a
very poor PSV side and a Chelsea team exhausted by their mammoth campaign.
Could Milan finally set the record straight by whipping the floor with us and
showing up Benitez as nothing more than a decent cup manager with poor
man management skills, poor record in the transfer market and an even
poorer one in the league? (We’ve been effective out of the title by Oct
each year in the last three)

Finally as I briefly mentioned above, Benitez’s man management must be called
into question when our best player for 20 yrs was within a whisker of
leaving, every striker we get turns to ****e, instantly it would seem. Even
Kuyt seems to have only one shooting boot on most of the time.

So is the truth that we allow are trying to deny or is this just a very negative
one sided look at it?

I hope it’s the latter.

Time will tell.

Welcome Mourhino, you looking for a job?

[Johnny]

Well - he comes on here and after 3 posts decides to pick holes in Rafa's achievments. WTF is that about?

He has 3000 posts on 6cm and generally is a good poster.

[Dreambeliever]

There are certain elements of truth in your post.

I never thought Houillers reign would turn out like it did when i was standing on Queens Drive watching the bus pass by with 3 trophies on it.

The difference i think this time though is that we have had our fingers burnt by getting caught up in the moment during Houillers time. With that in mind you can really see the difference with Rafa. The main thing i love is that he has no obvious favorite player (unlike Heskey, Murphy etc). Rafa's sole purpose is team. The other big thing is none of these crackpot phrases Ged had. 5 games from greatness and all that. Finally Rafa knows instantly if he has made a cock up in the transfer market and sorts it straight away (Josemi, Nunez, Moro, Kromkamp) were-as Ged would hold on to the pile of ****es to save his face (Cheyrou, Diouf, Diao)

The main moan i have at the moment is that we are not as free flowing as say the mancs. We are still a bit to workman like so we can sometimes struggle to break a team down. Yet other than that you can see Rafa is a Top notch manager and will bring home number 19 in 2008/2009 season

I agree with alot of that. Great post.

Still though we haven't even been up at the top under Rafa yet, who's to say the pressure won't get to the players if they get up there.

I'll give ged one thing. He had us sitting top of the table for at least a while (before it all came crashing down)

[wavydavy]

The reason we "languish" 3rd in the league is that he spends(or has been forced to spend) an average of £5million per player and not £15million a player. Anyone who cannot see this is, in in my opinion, and I need to choose my words carefully here, a ****ING MORON.

[Johnny]

He'll get found out one way or the other.

Either for being a lucky manager and lightening does strike twice

OR

For being a great manager who hasn't been given the resouces to compete on a level playing field but has managed great success anyway.

Rome wasn't built in a day and our league results have shown steady improvement. The new owners need to give Rafa 3 years to compete for the title IMO.

This option for me please.

[Dreambeliever]

Agree 100%. And it's all about a gradual process under Rafa, and we've certainly been progressing consistently since he's been here.

What progress was made this year????

Less points and we could end up fourth.

[Morph]

for the sake of argument and I know you're probably a wind up but here we go

No wind up I assure you.

Something that has crossed my mind and I wanted to share.

Now the facts don’t lie we are in our second Champions league final in three
years and on the brink of out third major trophy in three seasons under Benitez.
This is great case for celebration. However that aside is there a case to be
made to say he is just a very lucky manager who has flattered to deceive
on his way to getting humbled badly by a great Milan side in 2 weeks time??

If Rafa's lucky then i'd love to have his lucky ballies



Firstly, the league doesn’t lie and we have been average at best with no real
signs of major improvement that we all had hoped for especially this season.
And don’t forget Rafa was brought in on the basis of his league credentials
not his cup success. Parry wanted a man who could produce the good quickly
on the pitch on a limited budget. And by all accounts in the league at least
Benitez has failed this miserably.

True, but we are competing against the moneybags teams in Chelsea and the Scum, who either had a very long time to form their team an astounding amount of money to buil the squad, or one of those special players who changes games and nets 30 goals a season (we're still waiting for one of those, so lets judge it a bit better when Rafa gets some cash behind him, we all know what the transfers turned out like last summer.

The one problem there is Rafa has never liked to play the 30 goal a season player who grabs all the headlines. Its all about the team. I still think he wouldn't have minded selling Gerrard. So that leaves us with the building a team over a long period option. Newsflash its been 3 yrs and we are not getting any closer

We aren't getting any further away which i think is more the point in question, when you look at the results, and lets discount the last two dead rubbers, we were five wins away from challenging, thats not a great deal and with some better wingers or pennant coming to forma little earlier, or not having kewell out the whole season we could well have got a few more of those 5 wins

Secondly, how good have we been in Europe? 2 years ago it took a Gerrard
wonder goal against a rubbish Greek outfit to scrape out of the group. Then
we beat a completely depleted Bayer L side and a Juve team we now know
had bought their success. We scraped by Chelsea in a very tight affair that
could have gone either way.

Then the final, we got absolutely battered for 55 mins should have been 4
down only for Milan to completely take their eye off the ball. Rafa got it
seriously wrong and only for an incredibly twist of fate we would have been
embarrassed for all of Europe to see.

Two years ago we had a pretty **** side correct, but surely it's credit to rafa
and the star players he had that we go to the final and then made the amazing come back, once could be considered lucky maybe, twice in two yrs and your having a laff



Last year we went out to a very average Benfica side getting beat 2-0 at home.

Can't win em all mate, what you want us to do get the final every year, lets not forget the same benfica knocked out the mancs who then won the league this season so it means ****

And even this year it could be argued we beat, a Barca team in turmoil, a
very poor PSV side and a Chelsea team exhausted by their mammoth campaign.

Again where rafa's lucky ballies, because if they engineer a great performance away to barca and an even better one at home to chelsea, plus cruising comfortably through our group with a game to spare then i really want a pair
Barca were very poor over both legs and thank God Messi wasn't fit. As for the Chelsea game, they were ****e, one demenisonal (i.e boot it to Drogba and pray he nicks us a goal) and we still only managed the victory on penos

well who made them play that way, you are never going to convince me that you can get to the final twice in 3 years by luck, maybe it's lucky that mourinho struck gold with drogba, who arguably looked **** in his first season, or the mancs with ronaldos form this season, you can spin these things any way you want

Could Milan finally set the record straight by whipping the floor with us and
showing up Benitez as nothing more than a decent cup manager with poor
man management skills, poor record in the transfer market and an even
poorer one in the league? (We’ve been effective out of the title by Oct
each year in the last three)

wouldn't be a very good cup manager if we lost would he, poor transfers? now i know you're a windup, again fair coment about the league just, but hopefully thats two third place finishes, so we aren't exactly going backwards
He wasn't brought in to stay static in third he was brought in to win it. He hasn't even challenged yet. And his transfers haven't been great at all. Still no 20 goals a season striker, No wingers, no full back cover.

Okay transfers, Reina, Alonso, Agger, Mascherano, Sissoko (pre injury), Kuyt, Pennant (almost although jurys still out, Garcia, Crouch have all been great signings, so don't be giving me that crap about not good at all signings. He was brought in to win, sure, did you expect it overnight, he worked miracles with the team we had in 04/05 to get us to 82 points the following season, this season has been much the same really, so i don't really see your point, if we're still here in 2 yrs time, then i might take your point. Oh and as for the striket, go and look at the thread on this topic, we have the second highest amount of goals scored by strikers, so i'm not overly convinced that is the imediate priorty, wingers are and if he had the cash he wanted we'd probably have them by now

Finally as I briefly mentioned above, Benitez’s man management must be called
into question when our best player for 20 yrs was within a whisker of
leaving, every striker we get turns to ****e, instantly it would seem. Even
Kuyt seems to have only one shooting boot on most of the time.

I have just realised you are a definate piss take and questioning wether I should even bother posting this reply, but it's written now so might as well

Is it not true that the Gerrard saga was managed terribly by Rafa. Cisse is another example, h's a player that needed an arm around the shoulder not the cold one Rafa dished out. He's a great tactics man, but seems to lack when it comes to man management in my eyes

How exactly does rafa manage the Gerrard situation, it's up to parry and the board to get the business done with tying up his contract, as for his man management, he's dealing with grown men here not friggin school kids, i'm sure you wouldn't have an idea about his management skills and neither would i

So is the truth that we allow are trying to deny or is this just a very negative
one sided look at it?

I hope it’s the latter.

Time will tell.

hopefully


__________________

[Johnny]

I agree with alot of that. Great post.

Still though we haven't even been up at the top under Rafa yet, who's to say the pressure won't get to the players if they get up there.

I'll give ged one thing. He had us sitting top of the table for at least a while (before it all came crashing down)

Hey dreamB,good to see you over here,you`ll see a big difference as the posters on here(Mostly) don`t need to abuse to get their point across,hang around you`ll like it here..

[wavydavy]

What progress was made this year????

Less points and we could end up fourth.

CL final, clean sheets, Agger, Crouch, Mascherano, games/performances against top 3 sides etc