Is Benitez about to be found out…?

[Dreambeliever]

I didn't say Milan had no chances, I said they had no plan B. They only had the chances because our players were ****ed. We were outplayed in the first half but also had chances to score anyhow.

Anyway my main point is that you mentioned Rafa doesn't want a 20 goal a season striker, or doesn't recognize one. Well are you forgetting he tried to Buy Villa from Zaragoza, and that he tried to sign Eto'o form Madrid and Barca when Owen went to Real? I guess you are, as most would say they are 20 goal a season strikers.

And 12 goals in the league isn't bad for Kuyts first season.

There plan B was to try and score another goal and they came very close on a number of occasions.

As for the striker debate, well I'll believe when I see us sign Eto (prays to God)

Kuyt has been a let down for me simple because he misses to many good chances.

[tomasjj]

To clear it up we were lucky but deserved it for our application (hard work, never say die spirit) not for our football.

We were muck against them at the Bridge and were very "Lucky" (sorry couldn't resist) not to be put away down there.

Ged in his time got us from 7th to 2nd before failing.

Rafa hasn't looked likely yet.

I agree the league form is disappointing, and I still have doubts about Rafa's overly negative approach, especially away from home.

But, you have to acknowledge that the bar has been raised by the other top teams.

Also, the 2 CL finals do count for something...

[Red_Polo]

Read my posts in context will ya.

I was replying to someone who suggested Milan had no chances in the 2nd half.

And anyone who doesn't realise we had a huge slice of luck winning a cup comp where by we went through by the odd goal in 2 rounds and won the final on penos is either stupid or crazy or both.

We did however deserve our luck IMO.

No you weren't. He said they had no plan B when Kaka was nullified, which might suggest they were unable to maintain control of the game but not necessarily that they had no chances.

Anyway that's not the point. You've reeled off a list of negative statements, many of which have little truth in them, thinking that it acts as evidence of your main hypothesis - that Rafa has just been lucky with us the last few years and he'll get found out. I was pointing out that just one such negative remark of yours has absolutely **** all to do with luck. Since when has beating someone by only a goal made it lucky for example?

[Dreambeliever]

No worries mate,I may not agree with what you saying although I do get some of your points but I respect that you're standing your ground against a whole site.

Cheers

And I'm only talking from the other side for a change.

Interesting to see people's arguements, but like there are some holes in mine the same can be said for people posts against me.

Time will tell.

[Dreambeliever]

Disagree totally and i still think your a manc.

Jose did it with an unlimited budget, he did a ****ing good job never the less - but you cant compare it to benitez who inherited a **** second rate french squad. There is no other precedent in the premier league. (im hoping dalglish and walker didnt do it in one season at blackburn or else ill look stupid)

Ferguson is neither a tactical genius nor a specialist in the transfer market. He motivates people. Without the golden generation he wouldnt have been nearly as successful at united.

wenger is a great manager in my opinion, better than ferguson perhaps - but even he couldnt have come to us in the off season after GH and secured us number 19 by the end of the year.

I admire the way youve whipped everyone up on here, but your too negative for your own good....and im the king of reverse psychology. I would say there isnt a better man for the job that is realistically available anywhere in europe as i said to morph - hes doing it slow but you cant deny we are progressing steadily. Now he has the money we will see how he really gets on if we finish 20 points back in 3rd place next year - i might be slightly more in your camp, but so far Benitez has done a sound job.

Read this entire thread and you'll see I'm not a manc.

Jose has won the league on the bounce for what now 4 or 5 years before this season. He just knows what it takes to grind out wins week in week out.


Fergie plays a great band of football for the EPL. And his man management skills are 2nd to none IMO.

Negative me?? I put 100 quid on us to win the thing at 28/1.I was just interested to see peoples thoughts when you get to see it from the other side of the fence.

[stevie_gerrard_8]

To be honest, i think the only thing that we lack are a few players who can change a game on their own. i don't think tactics have been a problem. look at Utd against Fulham? they were poor but their matchwinner(s) saved them.

LFC Matchwinners:
Gerrard
Garcia
(Kewell)

Man Utd:
Rooney
Ronaldo
Giggs
Scholes

Chelsea:
Drogba
Robben
Cole
Shevchenko + Ballack (Poor this season but can still produce magic)
(Lampard)


To be able to buy these players, we need to be able to spend large amounts of money on players, which we haven't been able to until now.

[Dreambeliever]

I agree the league form is disappointing, and I still have doubts about Rafa's overly negative approach, especially away from home.

But, you have to acknowledge that the bar has been raised by the other top teams.

Also, the 2 CL finals do count for something...

The bar hasn't been raised its been flung skywards, but united managed to reach it when many wrote them off at the start of the season.

The two CL do count for alot, just like the treble did for Ged, but make no mistake if Rafa doesn't get us challenging soon he'll be getting the chop.

[tomasjj]

The bar hasn't been raised its been flung skywards, but united managed to reach it when many wrote them off at the start of the season.

The two CL do count for alot, just like the treble did for Ged, but make no mistake if Rafa doesn't get us challenging soon he'll be getting the chop.

How much time do you think he will be given then?

I reckon at least 2 more years.
Unless something really drastic happen, like we end up 6th two years in a row...or similar.

[Dreambeliever]

No you weren't. He said they had no plan B when Kaka was nullified, which might suggest they were unable to maintain control of the game but not necessarily that they had no chances.

Anyway that's not the point. You've reeled off a list of negative statements, many of which have little truth in them, thinking that it acts as evidence of your main hypothesis - that Rafa has just been lucky with us the last few years and he'll get found out. I was pointing out that just one such negative remark of yours has absolutely **** all to do with luck. Since when has beating someone by only a goal made it lucky for example?

Give one statement in my intial post that had little truth??

And winning one tie by the odd goal isn't luck but doing it over and over again has to been seen as having an element of luck no??

[Dreambeliever]

How much time do you think he will be given then?

I reckon at least 2 more years.
Unless something really drastic happen, like we end up 6th two years in a row...or similar.

If we fall out of the top 4 he's gone regardless of anything else.

If he doesn't have us in the mix for at least half a season in the next 2 years he's gone. IMO.

And to be honest I think thats fair.

Chelsea both their title in 2 years with different managers.

We now have all the money we want with a solid foundation.

We should be up there for a large part of next season. I.E we should beat everyone bar the top 2 or 3 next year for the most part.

[Mr Tourette]

Read this entire thread and you'll see I'm not a manc.

Jose has won the league on the bounce for what now 4 or 5 years before this season. He just knows what it takes to grind out wins week in week out.


Fergie plays a great band of football for the EPL. And his man management skills are 2nd to none IMO.

Negative me?? I put 100 quid on us to win the thing at 28/1.I was just interested to see peoples thoughts when you get to see it from the other side of the fence.

fair enough if your not a manc. Apologies.

Come on fella, youve got one or two points but like youve said there are 2 sides to the argument and your focussing on the negative side. Probably because youre £100 out of pockt by the sounds of it.

I stand by my view that none of the other managers would have done a better job than benitez has done. The list of matchwinners for the other teams tells a story

Man utd - rooney,ronaldo were 40 odd million giggs and scholes part of the golden generation of youth - doesnt take a management genius to develop them does it.

Chelsea - drogba, lampard, cole, robben, essien, carvalho - all brilliant players all millions and millions.

Arsenal - probably the lowest spend on the championship winning teams which is why i think wenger is maybe top man.

Liverpool - well we have gerrard dont we and the rest are players that are outside that top bracket becaue benitez coulnt afford the players he asked for - once he can afford them and is on a level playing field with the other managers - we'll talk again.

[stevie_gerrard_8]

fair enough if your not a manc. Apologies.

Come on fella, youve got one or two points but like youve said there are 2 sides to the argument and your focussing on the negative side. Probably because youre £100 out of pockt by the sounds of it.

I stand by my view that none of the other managers would have done a better job than benitez has done. The list of matchwinners for the other teams tells a story

Man utd - rooney,ronaldo were 40 odd million giggs and scholes part of the golden generation of youth - doesnt take a management genius to develop them does it.

Chelsea - drogba, lampard, cole, robben, essien, carvalho - all brilliant players all millions and millions.

Arsenal - probably the lowest spend on the championship winning teams which is why i think wenger is maybe top man.

Liverpool - well we have gerrard dont we and the rest are players that are outside that top bracket becaue benitez coulnt afford the players he asked for - once he can afford them and is on a level playing field with the other managers - we'll talk again.

Couldn't agree woth you more.
Our most expenisve player has been £14 million and that for me says it all. you can buy very good players for a certain price, but for world class, you need that bit more.

[Nic83]

Nothing like hitting the ground running hey Pat!?

[Farside]

Jose would have a very good go as would Fergie and Wenger IMO.

.

None of these 3 managers could have won us the Champions League in 2005 or get us to the final this year.

[El Jefecito]

Kuyt has been a let down for me simple because he misses to many good chances.

But that is due to ignorance on your part. Kuyt played as an out and out striker @ feyernood. Here he has been asked to play between the lines. It goes w/o saying that he would score less goals in that position. Obviously, you haven't taken those kind of subtilties into account and therefore I can only call BULL**** on your conclusions.