the digler

[Imy]

Also where was Crouch yesterday? He's been appalling in pre-season for far? We may as well all criticise him know hadnt we? Oh how things change...

Crouch, who has been gash in pre-season, and recently seems to have as many completely anonymous games as he does good ones, ahead of him.

Crouch has started to believe his own hype, for the record i prefer Kuyt to Crouch as he does bring more to the table, Crouch is only good for the freak/nuisance factor. Maybe this was the summer to have shipped him out and got a premium on him?

[Shaggy]

Sorry Shaggy, but that's a bit silly.

Hard work is exactly what wins you games. It also scores you goals, or allows others to score them. Hard work is not a given, certainly not at the level it is put in by Kuyt. Hard work in training is also what will lead Kuyt to improve, and to ensure he carries out the instructions fo his manager to the letter. Nobody's saying they wouldn't like to see a bit more regular finishing from the lad, but overall I thought he did pretty well in his first season in England, and see no reason why he won't get better reward this year.

I'm almost incredulous that people are advocating either playing Voronin, whom nobody has seen kick a ball in anger for us so far, or even Crouch, who has been gash in pre-season, and recently seems to have as many completely anonymous games as he does good ones, ahead of him.

I don't think it's silly at all. Hard work IS a given. Or it should be. Okay, not everyone works as phenomenally hard as Kuyt (Sissoko perhaps), but I expect everyone in a red shirt to give their all.

Hard work alone is not enough.

Anyway...it's beginning to sound like I've got it in for him. I haven't. I love the bloke. I just have major reservations about him.

[Imy]

Because Kuyt is a striker and one of the criticisms I level at him is that he doesn't score enough goals.

No agenda whatsoever, you couldn't be more wrong. I just think he's lacking, that's all, and I'm waiting to be proven wrong.

Would Kuyt get ANYWHERE NEAR the team at United, Chelsea or Arsenal? No.

He needs to improve on his first season, much like Crouch improved on his first season.

With all the injuries at the Chavs he'd be 1st choice

[Shaggy]

Would Crouch gets in any of them teams?

I suspect Wenger would prefer him to Adebayor, so yes. IMO.

[Imy]

So reading the thread it now looks like we agree that Torres apart the strike force is still not strong enough

[MrMichael]

I don't think it's silly at all. Hard work IS a given. Or it should be. Okay, not everyone works as phenomenally hard as Kuyt (Sissoko perhaps), but I expect everyone in a red shirt to give their all.

Hard work alone is not enough.

Anyway...it's beginning to sound like I've got it in for him. I haven't. I love the bloke. I just have major reservations about him.

Why is Jamie Carragher so damn good?

Its not because he's the most naturally gifted defender in the league. Its because he gives 110% every single game and would die for the shirt. Real commitment is not as common a trait in the modern game as you are making out.

After one year playing regularly for the club, nobody ever thought Carra'd go on to become such a legend.

What is the difference with Kuyt?

[Imy]

I suspect Wenger would prefer him to Adebayor, so yes. IMO.

No way Shaggy, Crouch is much weaker then Adebayor and a lot slower too and he worse in the air...anyway it looks like the no1 partnership for the gooners will be Van Perise ( i think he's going to have a brilliant season) and Da Silva followed closely by Bendtner and then Adebayor

[JPK]

I suspect Wenger would prefer him to Adebayor, so yes. IMO.

You must be joking.Arsenal play crisp fast flowing football.With Crouch they would have a tendancy to lump long balls.No chance.

[JPK]

Crouch has started to believe his own hype, for the record i prefer Kuyt to Crouch as he does bring more to the table, Crouch is only good for the freak/nuisance factor. Maybe this was the summer to have shipped him out and got a premium on him?

[MrMichael]

So reading the thread it now looks like we agree that Torres apart the strike force is still not strong enough

I don't.

Genuine creative quality from wide midfield areas concerns me so much more than our frontline.

[Imy]

Why is Jamie Carragher so damn good?

Its not because he's the most naturally gifted defender in the league. Its because he gives 110% every single game and would die for the shirt.

After one year playing regularly for the club, nobody ever thought Carra'd go on to become such a legend.

What is the difference with Kuyt?

Mr M, carra is a centre back where skill is not the main attribute needed, its hard work, game intelligence and balls (Carra has two groins!)

Up front hard work is needed but nowadays pace, trickery, skill, guile are also needed which (so far) Kuyt has not shown too much off.

[Guest]

So reading the thread it now looks like we agree that Torres apart the strike force is still not strong enough

The problem isn't down to individuals but more on how Rafa has in mind as to how we should play away from home. That team last night was too cagey, conventional to succeed in the premiership. It surely will be good enough for an away European tie but certainly not in the premiership. We would have been ****ted if we were facing Villa instead of Feyenoord last night, just my opinion.

We should stop picking on individuals as we have the players to really challenge. The sticking point is how Rafa see them playing as a unit. Playing Torres on the right wing, with Kuyt behind Voronin and running like a headless chicken isn't a solution. Football should not be Rocket science FFS.

[Shaggy]

Why is Jamie Carragher so damn good?

Its not because he's the most naturally gifted defender in the league. Its because he gives 110% every single game and would die for the shirt. Real commitment is not as common a trait in the modern game as you are making out.

After one year playing regularly for the club, nobody ever thought Carra'd go on to become such a legend.

What is the difference with Kuyt?

I'd have thought that was obvious.

One is a striker and the other is a centre-back.

[Shaggy]

You must be joking.Arsenal play crisp fast flowing football.With Crouch they would have a tendancy to lump long balls.No chance.

I'm not joking.

In case it had escaped your attention, Crouch works best in a "crisp attacking team", rather than having long punts aimed in his direction. Adebayor is about 6' 5", a similar 'sort' to Crouch.

[Guest]

Genuine creative quality from wide midfield areas concerns me so much more than our frontline.

Babel is good enough but he's still raw, as for Benayoun he's no winger. The closest player in our team fitting the definition of a winger is Pennant, but he still lacks confidence to run at his marker at every occasion.