the digler

[Pablo]

Surely Monster cant be that tired.He did'nt play a whole lot last year.
We are a more solid team with him playing.

I know and I hope you are right. He is one of those type of players that uses the minimimum amount of energy anyway, a bit like Hamann, hes all about being in the right position to break up play. I hope he does start, the Monster is a joy to watch. I just feel that if Sissoko doesnt start this game then he has little chance of starting any game for us.

[Rich]

I reckon Kuyt and Torres could form a useful partnership, my worry is that they'll never be given the opportunity to develop that understanding.

[Shaggy]

Come on Shaggy, how many times do we have to play Gerrard in the forward position before we realise he just doesn't posses the necessary qualities to play that role? The last time he played the (Rooney position) was in the CL final and he was piss poor yet again.

I don't mean as a 2nd striker. I agree, he's **** there.

He could be deployed ahead of Mascherano & Alonso without being so far advanced that he'd be "in the hole". Torres could receive support from the two advanced wide players - similar to Chelsea's 4-3-3.

[stevie_gerrard_8]

Crouch would only work with us, because we know how to use him. Benitez has plans for him and this helps him to get the best out of his ability.

Chelsea would expect him to be like Drogba, which he isn't, Arseanl would never lump balls, even though they should as it's a useful Plan B. This is also the same with the Scum.

[stevie_gerrard_8]

I don't mean as a 2nd striker. I agree, he's **** there.

He could be deployed ahead of Mascherano & Alonso without being so far advanced that he'd be "in the hole". Torres could receive support from the two advanced wide players - similar to Chelsea's 4-3-3.

Masch = Makelele
Alonso = Essien
Gerrard = Lampard

[Imy]

Masch = Makelele
Alonso = Essien
Gerrard = Lampard

Thats spot on, i prefer our guys, maybe take Essien over Xabi though.

[marcus50bucks]

I don't mean as a 2nd striker. I agree, he's **** there.

He could be deployed ahead of Mascherano & Alonso without being so far advanced that he'd be "in the hole". Torres could receive support from the two advanced wide players - similar to Chelsea's 4-3-3.

[stevie_gerrard_8]

Thats spot on, i prefer our guys, maybe take Essien over Xabi though.

Essien for me is world class. However they both bring different attributes to the table. We could use Sissoko if we want something similar to Essien.

I hope we try it:

Reina

Finnan Carra Agger Riise

Alonso Masch
Gerrard

Any of Torres/Crouch/Voronin/Babel/Benayoun

Would prefer the least mobile of the three in the centre. Unless Torres is playing as he is a must in the centre IMO.

[keniget]

I really don't understand why certain people insist on stating that it's "just pre-season". Shaggy and others arguing their case in this thread have had a whole season to see Kuyt in a Liverpool shirt to base their opinions on and in some cases, his time at Feynoord too.

I like Dirk. I think you'd be hard pushed to find even one Liverpool supporter that doesn't. He works hard, he says all the right things and by all accounts, he's a ridiculously nice guy too, so he ticks all the right boxes in terms of endearing himself to the fans. The Feynoord lot know that well enough - they love him. Thing is, he scored lots and lots and lots of goals for them.

We are a European giant, playing in what is one of the most competitive leagues in the world right now. That fact means that our attackers need to be a bit special. Unfortunately, the way Rafa has set us up, means that they need to be even more special than normal to excel because there is typically little forward momentum from the team as a whole.

Dirk is a good player to have in the squad. Whether or not he's good enough to start for us is another matter. At this present stage, based on what I've seen so far, Kuyt's position is one we'll probably need to look at next summer.

The only way that might change is if he improves a lot - along with the rest of the team, as he needs their help (better service etc) or if Torres explodes into life this season, essentially meaning that Kuyt's defiencies are masked somewhat and his pluses, i.e. awareness, making space for others are capitalized on.

[Neil Young]

I really don't understand why certain people insist on stating that it's "just pre-season". Shaggy and others arguing their case in this thread have had a whole season to see Kuyt in a Liverpool shirt to base their opinions on and in some cases, his time at Feynoord too.

I like Dirk. I think you'd be hard pushed to find even one Liverpool supporter that doesn't. He works hard, he says all the right things and by all accounts, he's a ridiculously nice guy too, so he ticks all the right boxes in terms of endearing himself to the fans. The Feynoord lot know that well enough - they love him. Thing is, he scored lots and lots and lots of goals for them.

We are a European giant, playing in what is one of the most competitive leagues in the world right now. That fact means that our attackers need to be a bit special. Unfortunately, the way Rafa has set us up, means that they need to be even more special than normal to excel because there is typically little forward momentum from the team as a whole.

Dirk is a good player to have in the squad. Whether or not he's good enough to start for us is another matter. At this present stage, based on what I've seen so far, Kuyt's position is one we'll probably need to look at next summer.

The only way that might change is if he improves a lot - along with the rest of the team, as he needs their help (better service etc) or if Torres explodes into life this season, essentially meaning that his defiencies are masked somewhat and his pluses, i.e. awareness, making space for others are capitalized on.

For me the point about using a pre-season friendly as a basis for assessing anything is crazy. It tells us nothing definitive about anything.

If you're going to base opinions on previous competitive games then that's different. However, even if you do put them in the broader context, there is no point IMO in invoking how well or badly a player played in games which are largely about fitness, not getting injured or sent off and trying out different tactical things.

[alunevans]

ultimately dirk is too slow in my book. thats not something thats about settling in. his pace reminds me of a striker at the end of his career rather than one at his peak.

a striker who has no pace has to be extraordinary in vision, like a sheringham. if you're so slow physically you have to make up for it by being immensely quick upstairs.

and i mean immensely.

its down to pace for me. a striker with dirk's pace will always struggle at the very highest level.

[keniget]

Yes, these pre-season tournies are essentially glorified training seassions. That said, it doesn't mean we can't extract anything of any meaning from them. Yesterdays game was the last game before the start of the season, which is just a week away. At this point in time, fitness and match sharpness should be nearing the right levels. Will things be magically different in a week?

If such points regarding Kuyt were complete anomalies, they would be dismissed as such. The fact is, as you and I well know, they're not. Yesterdays game was simply the latest example and as such, it becomes a valid point of reference.

Dismissing a game that both sides wanted to win as irrelevant is the easy way out. These opinions are not new ones. The posters expressing these opinions are not doing so for the first time. So with all this in mind, do you not think it's petty to to pick on this particular point?

[stevie_gerrard_8]

ultimately dirk is too slow in my book. thats not something thats about settling in. his pace reminds me of a striker at the end of his career rather than one at his peak.

a striker who has no pace has to be extraordinary in vision, like a sheringham. if you're so slow physically you have to make up for it by being immensely quick upstairs.

and i mean immensely.

its down to pace for me. a striker with dirk's pace will always struggle at the very highest level.

Like Shearer and GOD

[Shaggy]

For me the point about using a pre-season friendly as a basis for assessing anything is crazy. It tells us nothing definitive about anything.

Indeed, which is why those of us criticising Kuyt are using last season as the barometer.

[Neil Young]

Indeed, which is why those of us criticising Kuyt are using last season as the barometer.

I feel as though it's sacrilege to question whether Hard Work Dirk's good enough. I've been doing it since day one but the reaction is nearly always frenzied.

I don't think he's good enough but he's impossible not to love with his commitment to the cause and his *yawn* phenomenal work rate.

Last night, with Kuyt & Voronin, we may as well have been playing a 4-6-0. It was the same in the CL final when Rafa ludicrously decided to play Kuyt as a lone "frontman" - yet again it became a 4-6-0.

Torres and Crouch should start at Villa.

That apart...

So you didn't see anything yesterday to make you change your mind about him? No, well, I can accept that.

Equally though someone who hasn't yet written off Kuyt wouldn't have seen anything to change their mind either.

So just maybe there's a danger of using yesterday's game to reinforce pre-existing opinions.