the digler

[Airman]

That apart...

So you didn't see anything yesterday to make you change your mind about him? No, well, I can accept that.

Equally though someone who hasn't yet written off Kuyt wouldn't have seen anything to change their mind either.

So just maybe there's a danger of using yesterday's game to reinforce pre-existing opinions.

You make a good point, as always, Mr.Young.

I'm afraid I am a Kuyt critic, but I'm desperately hoping he'll prove me wrong this season!

[Shaggy]

So just maybe there's a danger of using yesterday's game to reinforce pre-existing opinions.

Well what else are we supposed to do?

I am waiting for Dirk to prove me wrong.

[Rich]

If Kuyt grabs 15 goals and 10 assists next season then he's been a success. (in my eyes)

I think we need to look at Torres to get 20, then Kuyt 15, and Crouch and Gerrard 10+.

[Dhav]

I don't think pace (or Dirk's lak of it) is an issue if you're a clinical finisher. Everything we have seen of him in Holland (ie ignoring last season) suggests he is clinical and has good positional sense, ie will be in the right position to sniff out chances and get on the end of them.

My question is why have we not seen this side of him last season? Why have we seen him running like a headless chicken in deep and wide positions and not really seen him in the box getting on the end of crosses and loose balls?

Is it that he is still to adapt to the premierhsip? Is it that his performances/record in Holland gave us a false impression of him and he doesn't have the attributes listed above? Is it that he does indeed like going out wide and dropping deep when other strikers of his type hang in the box? Or is he following Rafa's instructions which are not conducive to him getting 20 goals a season?

My biggest issue with him is that he does too much running outside the box, out wide etc, which IMO is useless, especially when he is playing the lone striker role as he did in Athens. He should be in the box getting on the end of Pennant's crosses, or latching onto a loose ball. I dont know if he does all that donkey work because he is instructed to by Rafa or because he is inclined to (I suspect it is the former), but if he is notgoing to spend time around the box he won't score. I just wonder if it is the way we play (slow, patient, possesion play, lack of real creavity) that prevents him from getting chances/goals more than anything else?

For what it's worth, I think the guy is capable and he can get plenty of goals if we take the shackles off him.

[justcruisin]

im pretty sure kuyt makes hyypia look really quick in training.

[Dhav]

im pretty sure kuyt makes hyypia look really quick in training.

Come off it. He's no slower than Crouch who was seen as our top striker before we signed Torres.

[Pablo]

If Kuyt grabs 15 goals and 10 assists next season then he's been a success. (in my eyes)

I think we need to look at Torres to get 20, then Kuyt 15, and Crouch and Gerrard 10+.

Why do we alrays have to round it of to 5s and 10s?

I want 21 form Torres, 14 from Kuyt, and 11+ from Crouch and Gerrard

[Deadlogic]

The problem is that he drops deep too often and so is not in goalscoring positions often enough.We don't know if he is doing this on Rafa's instructions or not. I would love to see him staying around the box for the majority of the game and see if he could score more .

Definitely too early too start a lynch mob

It's not the problem at all.

He's playing exactly the same kind of role for us, as he played for Feyenoord (also ignoring the fact he played on the wing quite a lot for them too...).

His game has always been about dropping deep.

I think he merely needs a little more time to become as lethal as he was in Holland, and having someone of the calibre of Torres alongside him will do wonders for his game (similar to when he played alongside Kalou at Feyenoord in terms of "style" of player.).

In saying that, I don't think there's actually a "problem" as such either. His goal return for his first season in a new (and far more difficult) league, with a new team, playing a new way; was good enough. He needs to move up a level now this season, which is the only way to judge him.

Let's not forget it took Drogba 2 seasons here to become the player he is now (Kuyt already outscoring him in his debut season), and of course Henry took his time to settle.

He'll be fine.

[paulcooper4]

Yes - see what you want to see. Your comment is typical. You take one line out of the report and use that to explain his whole performance because it entirely fits with your view of him.

You could read The Guardian report as an indicator that he was the best player on the pitch but that wouldn't fit, would it?

I'm not having a go at you Shaggy, we all do it. Perhaps I should have said 'we see what we want to see' - it would have been less open to misinterpretation. However, I have to say that on this subject you're as guilty of it as anyone.

I'm with dww.

By the way, Kuyt did score a good goal - it just wasn't given.

[alunevans]

Like Shearer and GOD

Both Shearer and Fowler at their peak were quicker than Dirk. Shearer only slowed after those dreadful injuries.

And both much cleverer with it, especially Fowler.

Dirk's pace reminds me of Fowler at the end of his career, not when he was in his pomp.

Dirk is slow and that's really my point.

So was Sheringham I admit, but Sheringham was lightning fast upstairs and that made up for it.

[alunevans]

I don't think pace (or Dirk's lak of it) is an issue if you're a clinical finisher.

I see what you're saying on your other points, but being slow is an issue, clinical finisher or not. Robbie Fowler last season was as clinical as they come. But he was just too slow for the top level.

Dirk would score many more if he were able to get onto through balls etc. I've lost count of the number of times that the only reason he's not been one on one with the keeper is that he's been far too slow to get there.

[paulcooper4]

Dirk`s a good player.

We will win the league, or at least be in the fight for it come april/may imo, and he will play a huge part in this.

Oh, and he will do it without looking flashy like say, thierry henry or a striker of that type but he`ll do for me any day.

Yes, theres probably better strikers around but Rafa likes different options from his frontmen, option dirk is unselfish runs, hard work and wellying the ball dead hard at goal at every opportunity.

Rafas got his dirk kuyt rafas got his dirk kuyt nah nah nah nah hey nah nah nah nah hey.

[alunevans]

Come off it. He's no slower than Crouch who was seen as our top striker before we signed Torres.

in my judgement crouch is quicker and also has a much better touch than dirk. i'd like to know what the facts are though ie training results etc but my guess is that crouch is quicker than dirk.

[justcruisin]

Come off it. He's no slower than Crouch who was seen as our top striker before we signed Torres.

pls dont insult crouch.hattrick against arsenal...thats good enough for me right there.

[dww]

I'm not sure who is quicker but on occasion Dirk shows surprising acceleration over about two yards which earns him space, he hasn't done it regularly enough but he has it in his locker despite his slow speed overall.

The thing about Crouch and his touch is that while he is good at getting it under control it often seems to take hime time to get it into a position to do something useful with it other than use his body to shield it. Kuyt despite having the ball bounce off him more does nearly always put it somewhere he can do something with it.

Kuyt obviously has something to prove but I think he has the ability to do it and last season his stats as a deep lying striker were decent for goals and actually the problem was in assists. However I feel this is a team problem of not having an attacking 4 which work as a unit with players making runs off each other - for example when Gerrard makes runs from deep you often see kuyt chesting it off to give him a strike on goal. However it is rare to see Pennant, Kewell, Riise, Aurelio etc who have played in our wide positions make runs into dangerous areas in and around the box. I'm hoping that Benayoun and Babel will do this more and that Torres will make more intelligent runs and be more suited to the role of main striker than anyone we had last year.