So it is -4 points in the league...

[sonsofthedesert]

He played 40 games a season for Atletico. Expecting him to start 50 or 60 suddenly isnt a good idea is it.

don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

[Dhav]

I love Rafa, but all the talk about tactics and space in relation to Torres is just excuses. It was clear for all to see on Saturday just how much more dangerous we were when Torres came on.

[akjs123]

As much as a i respect Rafa, the whole not having space excuse is bull****. So you know tactics better than Rafa??
For whatever reason he rates Voronin far too highly which pisses me off.
And this is because you are a better judge of footballers than Rafa and have seen him play and train more than him??

Torres should have played on saturday and rested last night. I couldnt care less about the carling cup, its just not important. Winning that micky mouse cup could cost us a league title. Playing Carragher and Torres in that when they should be rested for the next 3 games is not clever
In hindsight it is easy to say that this should have been done instead of that. Had Torres and Kuyt started and we had drawn vs B'gam then people had been saying Voronin or Crouch should have started instead of Kuyt and the other way round if Voronin had started with Torres. I remember a lot of people saying after the Portsmouth game that Gerrard and Torres should have started vs Pompey and then rested vs B'gam at home. Rafa put out a team which was good enough to beat the likes of B'gam at home. Last season and the season before that, when we didnt have Torres, werent we able to beat teams at home?? It is silly to blame Rafa for team selection. It was not like we were playing Barcelona to be questioning Rafa for leaving Torres on the bench.

[Dhav]

As much as a i respect Rafa, the whole not having space excuse is bull****. For whatever reason he rates Voronin far too highly which pisses me off.

Torres should have played on saturday and rested last night. I couldnt care less about the carling cup, its just not important. Winning that micky mouse cup could cost us a league title. Playing Carragher and Torres in that when they should be rested for the next 3 games is not clever

Yes, I pretty much agree with all of this. I contend that picking Torres for the two cup games but not the intervening league games was a mistake - we need to get our priorities straight. Having said that, hopefully with him getting a hat-trick yesterday it can work in our favour in that he's laid down a marker and defences will be scared of him and he's also boosted his confidence no end.

[The Erectile Banana]

Yes, I pretty much agree with all of this. I contend that picking Torres for the two cup games but not the intervening league games was a mistake - we need to get our priorities straight. Having said that, hopefully with him getting a hat-trick yesterday it can work in our favour in that he's laid down a marker and defences will be scared of him and he's also boosted his confidence no end.

I think we could see Torres on fire (metaphorically, not literally) over the next few weeks after that hat trick.

One things for sure - it'll be very hard for Rafa to 'rotate' him after a performance like that.

[Tom]

he's gonna have to rotate him though. Otherwise he'll play 60 odd games for us plus 12 internationals. ~If you play for blackburn rovers or charlton that's nearly 2 season's worth of games.

[The Erectile Banana]

I don't think anyone expects Torres to start all our games but I think the majority on here want him to start all our league games as it should be our number one priority this season.

[Tom]

Even after internationals? sorry i trust the manager on this one. He has access to fitness records, training sessions etc and can make informed decisions based on that knowledge.

[Abro100]

I think Rafas argument was Void, if Torres was going to struggle to do something with less space, no disrespect to Kuyt and Voronin, but surely so will they.
I think Rafa thinks about the oppositions strengths too much and doesnt use ours to out full potential.
Being honest i think he was tryna be a cocky ****er against Brum saying, i dont need Torres every game i have these 2 who can do a job, boasting about his Rotation in a way.

[The Erectile Banana]

Even after internationals? sorry i trust the manager on this one. He has access to fitness records, training sessions etc and can make informed decisions based on that knowledge.

Well obviously Rafa isn't going to start him in every league game, especially after internationals, as you say, but I think it is vital for our title challenge that Torres starts as many games as possible.

You need your big players to be performing consistently to have any chance of winning the league - look at last year and impact Ronaldo and Drogba had. How many matches were they rested for?

I'd much rather Torres was rested for cup games than league matches.

[Dhav]

I think we could see Torres on fire (metaphorically, not literally) over the next few weeks after that hat trick.

One things for sure - it'll be very hard for Rafa to 'rotate' him after a performance like that.

Indeed. Torres with his form has tied Rafa's hands on this one and we'll hopefully see him play the next few league games.

Even after internationals? sorry i trust the manager on this one. He has access to fitness records, training sessions etc and can make informed decisions based on that knowledge.

I don;t disagree with what you're saying Tom. Clearly Torres will need to be rotated, especially as he's also playing international football and will most likely be playing in the Euros at the end of the season. BUt that being the case, Rafa could have rotated a lot more wisely than he has done. Rafa is right when suggesting Torres will be at his most dangerous with space ahead of him to run into, and Portsmouth have a small pitch and played something of a containing game, as of course did Birmingham. Having said that, it is clear to see how much more dangerous we were against both those sides when he came on, irrespective of the lack of space for him to exploit. He is by far our best striking option.

If Rafa was true to his word that the Premiership was his top priority he wouldn't have rested him before Portsmouth to play him in Porto. I think that's what I most disappointed about - Rafa's making the right noises but his action smack of the same old story. Personally I'd start Torres in as many league games as poss (if you want to rest him take him when hopefully we've built a lead)and to hell with playing him in Europe (unless we get to vital stage) or the cup games. European club football is so slow, possession based that there's no real reason why the likes of Kuyt, Voronin and Crouch can't excel in it - as Crouch did last season.

[mersey86]

**tries to stifle big yawn**

**fails**

[Red Chilli]

It's Rafa's philosophy and thankfully, no matter how much bitching goes on in the media and on the net, he is going to do the job his way.

Trust in Rafa

[lfcruleus]

Deja Vu????

Get ****in over it its gone now!!!!