Sorry if this turns into a rant

[captainfog]

Out the current crop of youngsters I would be surprised if there isn't at least one £20m player in the making. Most will never make it at Liverpool

[fred_plasticine]

It's not a big surprise to me that so many of Arsenal's youngsters have come and gone since then, it's been mirrored in the first team too with massive players like Pires, Freddy, Henry, Sol, Viera, Bergkamp and others leaving. The fact is though that since 2003-2004 Wenger has pretty much rebuilt his team from scratch at a fraction of the money that Rafa has splashed out, yet we still rely on Gerrard and Carra to get us out of trouble at both ends of the pitch. Of course, we've got more silverware than them, but if Wenger takes either main trophy this season and we don't then he'll pretty much establish himself as the greatest ever Premiership manager imo.

well, in june tomkins compared the average price of top four club players - he came to the conclusion that arsenal paid a little bit more on average for each 1st team squad player than liverpool. of course that was before this summer's spendings but it still shows that wenger didn't produce his current squad from signing young kids for free. it's one of those things that are stated as facts like the age of their squad. there's bit too much hype in it for my liking.

[bigfooty]

Fred - if you compare the cost of Wenger's current first XI to a First XI of Rafa's players we've spent about twice as much and the team would be a lot weaker as there would be no Finnan, Carra or Gerrard in our side.

[spider-neil]

the problem is young players need to play week in week out sometimes regardless of form. ronaldo for example was played continually and his first couple of season can at best be described as average.
look at babel whether or not you think the lad has talent he is being played too sparingly to get any momentum going.

[fred_plasticine]

Fred - if you compare the cost of Wenger's current first XI to a First XI of Rafa's players we've spent about twice as much and the team would be a lot weaker as there would be no Finnan, Carra or Gerrard in our side.

i don't know about that as i didn't compare the cost myself, i just took the results of tomkins article. even with our summer spendings i'd be surprised if we've spent twice as much as they did. they spent some big money on they're so called youngsters who are currently in their first team.

the only reason why i did post it was to show that wenger's team isn't as cheap as people suggest nor is it as young as everybody believes.

[El Jefecito]

i don't know about that as i didn't compare the cost myself, i just took the results of tomkins article. even with our summer spendings i'd be surprised if we've spent twice as much as they did. they spent some big money on they're so called youngsters who are currently in their first team.

the only reason why i did post it was to show that wenger's team isn't as cheap as people suggest nor is it as young as everybody believes.

Tomkins, likes playing with numbers sounds like he may be including the cost of the legion of players who never cut it.

[fred_plasticine]

Tomkins, likes playing with numbers sounds like he may be including the cost of the legion of players who never cut it.

i suggest you read the article. he simply takes 20 players of the respective first team squads...

[tomasjj]

the problem is young players need to play week in week out sometimes regardless of form. ronaldo for example was played continually and his first couple of season can at best be described as average.
look at babel whether or not you think the lad has talent he is being played too sparingly to get any momentum going.

I agree with this.
It also seems to me, from what I have seen so far, that Babel is exactly that - a confidence player who needs games to build is game.

[The Birdman]

I'm with Freddy boy all the way on this one

[Rashid]

If you look at some of the players Wenger has signed or bought through from the youth set up - Fabregas, Cole, Vieira, Henry, Pires, Overmars, Anelka, Toure, Petit, Adebayor, etc etc you are talking about a manager who not only spots talent but develops them into World Class players usually meaning he multiplies their worth and sells them when a replacement can be found.

Not only does he have the best NET spend of all top clubs in world football but he is also a manager who totally changed the footballing playing philosophy of an ageing dinasour of a club - Wenger is a genius and reasons why he gets so much acclaim is obvious.

He is a better manager in the Premiership than Rafa IMO.

[fred_plasticine]

If you look at some of the players Wenger has signed or bought through from the youth set up - Fabregas, Cole, Vieira, Henry, Pires, Overmars, Anelka, Toure, Petit, Adebayor, etc etc you are talking about a manager who not only spots talent but develops them into World Class players usually meaning he multiplies their worth and sells them when a replacement can be found.

Not only does he have the best NET spend of all top clubs in world football but he is also a manager who totally changed the footballing playing philosophy of an ageing dinasour of a club - Wenger is a genius and reasons why he gets so much acclaim is obvious.

He is a better manager in the Premiership than Rafa IMO.

if you look at the current arsenal squad there not many young world class players in there who he brought through the ranks.
don't get me wrong, i respect wenger's work and he sometimes excels in scouting younger players but in terms of the current squad there's too much hype about the young players.
fabregas is a great youngster he developed but who else came through their ranks who has been signed at the age of 16, 17 who you consider at least a world class talent?

[red g]

the problem is young players need to play week in week out sometimes regardless of form. ronaldo for example was played continually and his first couple of season can at best be described as average.
look at babel whether or not you think the lad has talent he is being played too sparingly to get any momentum going.

well when ronaldo first came he was always sub and came on for the last 30mins in games invariably when scum were a couple of goals up......and the pressure is off him. Our youngsters have to much pressure on them as they need to deliver as its very rare we have a good lead !!


ps his 2nd season ronaldo was there player of the year

[Rashid]

if you look at the current arsenal squad there not many young world class players in there who he brought through the ranks.
don't get me wrong, i respect wenger's work and he sometimes excels in scouting younger players but in terms of the current squad there's too much hype about the young players.
fabregas is a great youngster he developed but who else came through their ranks who has been signed at the age of 16, 17 who you consider at least a world class talent?

Yes but the current Arsenal squad is full of players that Wenger has plucked from nowhere and made into world class players. Van Persie, Fabregas, Toure, Clichy, Flamini, cost less than £10M combined - a Dirk Kuyt. That lot would sell for £70M.

Not only that, just buying them is still on the hard part, the hard part is that Wenger makes them top class and has them playing in a brilliant manner.

well when ronaldo first came he was always sub and came on for the last 30mins in games invariably when scum were a couple of goals up......and the pressure is off him. Our youngsters have to much pressure on them as they need to deliver as its very rare we have a good lead !!
ps his 2nd season ronaldo was there player of the year

What do you mean our youngsters have too much pressure on them? When did we last blood a young player? Babel is 20, the same age Vieira was in 1996 when he came and took the Premiership by storm.

Ronaldo came on against Bolton on his debut and tore the right back a new arsehole - he had it in him from day one. Also in his debut season he played 29 times in the league alone (age 18 - 2 years younger than Babel) and most of them were starts - he has never played more than 34 - so what is your point?

[red g]

Yes but the current Arsenal squad is full of players that Wenger has plucked from nowhere and made into world class players. Van Persie, Fabregas, Toure, Clichy, Flamini, cost less than £10M combined - a Dirk Kuyt. That lot would sell for £70M.

Not only that, just buying them is still on the hard part, the hard part is that Wenger makes them top class and has them playing in a brilliant manner.



What do you mean our youngsters have too much pressure on them? When did we last blood a young player? Babel is 20, the same age Vieira was in 1996 when he came and took the Premiership by storm.

Ronaldo came on against Bolton on his debut and tore the right back a new arsehole - he had it in him from day one. Also in his debut season he played 29 times in the league alone (age 18 - 2 years younger than Babel) and most of them were starts - he has never played more than 34 - so what is your point?

Ronaldo in his first season, flattered to decieve, constant stepovers and poor quality decision making and crossing and i am pretty sure a lot of them appearances were from the subs bench.

The point is that Man united are and have been a team at the top for years now and have a gelled unit of players including some fantastic players, specially attacking ones. Apart from Torres and Gerrard we dont have that quality or cohesion in the final third. Babel cost 10.5million and ronaldo 13million 3 years ago. Arsenal have corted Babel for years allegedly.......give the bloke a chance, some adapt better than others.

[Rashid]

Ronaldo in his first season, flattered to decieve, constant stepovers and poor quality decision making and crossing and i am pretty sure a lot of them appearances were from the subs bench.

The point is that Man united are and have been a team at the top for years now and have a gelled unit of players including some fantastic players, specially attacking ones. Apart from Torres and Gerrard we dont have that quality or cohesion in the final third. Babel cost 10.5million and ronaldo 13million 3 years ago. Arsenal have corted Babel for years allegedly.......give the bloke a chance, some adapt better than others.

Ronaldo was 18 years old and if he wasn't thrust into the action and allowed to develop we would not see the same player he is today. Instead we have a manager who loves to give players rigid instructions and doesn't trust any player who doesn't track back. That is not the way to give young players confidence.

Arsenal have courted Babel and I also rate Babel - he needs a chance though doesn't he? He needs Rafa to give him confidence, a run of games, a chance to be himself and make mistakes as he goes along.