Sorry if this turns into a rant

[Rashid]

Vieira and Petit won the double in their first full season together.

[Mattshark]

Petit was footballer of the year in his first season in England I think.

No, he never won footballer of the year.

[Parm]

Vieira and Petit won the double in their first full season together.

well that was in 97/98, a year after they joined the club.

[red g]

Vieira and Petit won the double in their first full season together.

that was more to do with the quality around them as petit wasnt all that to start with

[Rashid]

oh, the other thing I wanted to add was that 10 yrs ago, players had a bit more time to develop and Wenger was also very lucky in that he inherited a a brilliant defence and goal keeper and Wright and Bergkamp. Essentially he need to improve in midfield and was able to take a year to tweak it and allow Viera and Petit to find their feet.

Depends how you see it, I remember the papers full of saying how Wenger needed to replace his "grandad defence" - instead he gave them a new lease of life. He replace Wright in his first full season with Anelka.

Remember where they finished the season before he started in 1996 - 5th.

[Mattshark]

Vieira and Petit won the double in their first full season together.

and then he won nothing in his remaining time at Arsenal.

[Parm]

Depends how you see it, I remember the papers full of saying how Wenger needed to replace his "grandad defence" - instead he gave them a new lease of life. He replace Wright in his first full season with Anelka.

Remember where they finished the season before he started in 1996 - 5th.

he may well have said that about the defence, but he changed the drinking culture there and managed to get 4/5 more years out of them. I dont think he really changed the defence until Toure and Cole came along. Thing with Anelka was that he brought him in and tucked hima way in the ressies and got him acclimatised to the league. When he was ready he came in and probably surprised Wenger as to how good he was and how quickly he developed.

[red g]

he may well have said that about the defence, but he changed the drinking culture there and managed to get 4/5 more years out of them. I dont think he really changed the defence until Toure and Cole came along. Thing with Anelka was that he brought him in and tucked hima way in the ressies and got him acclimatised to the league. When he was ready he came in and probably surprised Wenger as to how good he was and how quickly he developed.

getting Sol transformed there defence.

[Parm]

getting Sol transformed there defence.

that was 2001 wasnt it?

[red g]

that was 2001 wasnt it?

yeh a year after toure

[Parm]

yeh a year after toure

who started off in Central midfield. It is amazing how Wenger can get players to play in a variety of positions and look so comfortable in doing it.

[fred_plasticine]

who started off in Central midfield. It is amazing how Wenger can get players to play in a variety of positions and look so comfortable in doing it.

i think wenger does what every manger does - he uses players in different position until he finds the one they're best suited for. like playing henry as a striker. it's what rafa does with babel at the moment, what saf did with beckham for example. wenger moved flamini around quite a bit cause he didn't excel in any of the positions he was played in - but that went unnoticed cause it didn't pay off ... and that's the wenger bonus there you see.

[red g]

who started off in Central midfield. It is amazing how Wenger can get players to play in a variety of positions and look so comfortable in doing it.

yes and as it stands its amazing how bad rafa is at doing it !!!

[dww]

i think wenger does what every manger does - he uses players in different position until he finds the one they're best suited for. like playing henry as a striker. it's what rafa does with babel at the moment, what saf did with beckham for example. wenger moved flamini around quite a bit cause he didn't excel in any of the positions he was played in - but that went unnoticed cause it didn't pay off ... and that's the wenger bonus there you see.

Until this season Flamini looked best at left back (and to be honest I would have taken him in that position). He has really come on in his original position this year.

I think though that Arsene's philosophy is that players should be good enough at the basic techniques of passing, controlling etc. at first and then find a position later is a very good one. It would be the model I would like to see us move to for more of our young players.

[fred_plasticine]

Until this season Flamini looked best at left back (and to be honest I would have taken him in that position). He has really come on in his original position this year.

I think though that Arsene's philosophy is that players should be good enough at the basic techniques of passing, controlling etc. at first and then find a position later is a very good one. It would be the model I would like to see us move to for more of our young players.

fair enough but isn't that what rafa does with the reserves? hobbs for example played one season as a holding midfielder to improve his positional sense, ball control and passing (at least that's what we were told).
if rafa bought flamini and played him pretty much everywhere across the pitch the lot on the forums would be bitching and moaning and don't you think?
i agree with you though , flamini looked best at left back.