Controversial LFC thread.

[Joe King]

Better than El Jefecito. Purlease!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_uewyDGxic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8tnBmBGKGY

I was making the point that if we don't get Jefe we could get either Poulsen or Keita

[Trippendicular]

The thing is that playing the two defensive/holding midfielders means that we dominate and control almost every game. I think it's fine to play Gerrard/Alonso/Mascherano together as long as we make the most of our chances. I'd rather we keep Mascherano and then buy another true goal threat, a true finisher, as opposed to Kuyt, Voronin and Crouch, who all waste good chances every game. We have enough good chances every game to win them, and with both Alonso and Mascherano, as well and when Agger comes back, we're not going to concede very many either

[Red Chilli]

No, it allows one of the defensive midfielders to play higher up the pitch. Sometimes Xabi will attack and the other times Masch.

You would also more or less play with four strikers even if three of them plays behind the main striker.

Well it hasn't worked for us so far AFII.

2 defensive midfielders makes us hoof up to the strikers. If you don't believe me, go back over the games.

[Parm]

well bearing in mind Chelski paid 13/14mill for Makalale in 2004 when he was the wrong side of 30, and 18 mill for Obi, and 23mill odd for Essien, all of whom have been either feted or earmarked for the holding midfield road, our deal seems ok for a 23yrd old Argei international who can do a hell of a lot more than just tied up.

[Red Chilli]

The thing is that playing the two defensive/holding midfielders means that we dominate and control almost every game. I think it's fine to play Gerrard/Alonso/Mascherano together as long as we make the most of our chances. I'd rather we keep Mascherano and then buy another true goal threat, a true finisher, as opposed to Kuyt, Voronin and Crouch, who all waste good chances every game. We have enough good chances every game to win them, and with both Alonso and Mascherano, as well and when Agger comes back, we're not going to concede very many either

Dominate our games in our own half, GREAT!!!

The problem is, our strikers don't get **** to work with.

[Joe King]

Dominate our games in our own half, GREAT!!!

The problem is, our strikers don't get **** to work with.

We need a playmaker. Maybe Alonso should have more freedom in movement so he can get more forward and threaten the goal

[El Jefecito]

We need a playmaker. Maybe Alonso should have more freedom in movement so he can get more forward and threaten the goal

And that is EXACTLY why we need El Jefecito

[El Jefecito]

I was making the point that if we don't get Jefe we could get either Poulsen or Keita

got ya!

[tomasjj]

Well it hasn't worked for us so far AFII.

2 defensive midfielders makes us hoof up to the strikers. If you don't believe me, go back over the games.

We played some great footie with this formation in the CL when we won it....Does that count?

I agree that we have lacked penetration and class when applying this formation at times, but I also think that some of the football we have played using it has been very good. I reckon this formation will improve when Xabi, Torres and Agger all are back.

As for the Brum game, you are not correct. We did not play with 2 holding mids, but with SG and Mascher.

[dww]

I'm going to open this thread with a controversial statement regarding Masher:
I wouldn't like to pay more that £10m for a holding midfielder player. And I certainly wouldn't go anywhere near the reported £17m for him. For that kind of money I would want somebody who can hold,tackle,pass,score,dictate games, set up goals and is in general an all rounder (Xabi,Pirlo). £17m to 'hold'? No thanks.

I have to say that I am of the opinion that if a player is what you need for your system then you should pay whatever is necessary unless it prevents other equally necessary recruits coming in. My feeling at the beginning of this season was that the way Mascher was playing he was too one dimensional and actually required too much of the players around him, he broke down attacks but if Agger or Alonso weren't there to bring the ball out he was offering little. However recently as the team has gained confidence he has shown that he is very able at premiership speed and when teams target him to move the ball around slickly and with pace. Which means that for Rafas style he is an ideal member of the squad as outlined in the post quoted below:

The thing is that playing the two defensive/holding midfielders means that we dominate and control almost every game. I think it's fine to play Gerrard/Alonso/Mascherano together as long as we make the most of our chances. I'd rather we keep Mascherano and then buy another true goal threat, a true finisher, as opposed to Kuyt, Voronin and Crouch, who all waste good chances every game. We have enough good chances every game to win them, and with both Alonso and Mascherano, as well and when Agger comes back, we're not going to concede very many either

My problem is that at the minute we lack a cohesive attacking unit in too many games. For Rafas tactics to work well (i.e. to compensate for two holding midfield players) we need the attacking 4 to all chip in with goals. At the minute we struggle to get this balance and I think we need to change personnel in that area of the squad as much if not more than we would benefit from retaining Mascher. We also need to get a left fullback and some centreback cover - so unless one of our young players really steps up I think the decision about whether buying Mascher is right or not is in the balance.

Having said that Manchester United have shown that when a world class player comes along it is often best to go for them and make do in other areas of the team temporarily.

[AFII]

Well it hasn't worked for us so far AFII.

2 defensive midfielders makes us hoof up to the strikers. If you don't believe me, go back over the games.

It hasn't worked because Agger has been out injured. It worked very good before that.

Nothing to do with one or two defensive midfielders. You need to have at least one central defender that can carry the ball instead of hoofing it.

A new central defender like Garay or Kompany is a must in January.

[Red Chilli]

We played some great footie with this formation in the CL when we won it....Does that count?

I agree that we have lacked penetration and class when applying this formation at times, but I also think that some of the football we have played using it has been very good. I reckon this formation will improve when Xabi, Torres and Agger all are back.

As for the Brum game, you are not correct. We did not play with 2 holding mids, but with SG and Mascher.

Who mentioned the Brum game? Not me amigo.

That's fine if you are happy with occasional Champions league success, but I was talking about the Premiership.
I will not settle for SCUM over taking us in title wins and I will not settle for challenging for 3rd and 4th every year. That is what you are looking at if you play defensive negative football and that is what happens when you play 2 defensive midfielders.

[andyinswinton]

Its a lot of money I know but it is the going rate.

I'd rather spend that on Mascherano than spend £10 million on an older and poorer alternative.

I'd also offload Momo for as much as possible to offset the cost of buying Mascherano. It would also mean there would be less rotation of the central midfield parirings.

[AFII]

Who mentioned the Brum game? Not me amigo.

That's fine if you are happy with occasional Champions league success, but I was talking about the Premiership.
I will not settle for SCUM over taking us in title wins and I will not settle for challenging for 3rd and 4th every year. That is what you are looking at if you play defensive negative football and that is what happens when you play 2 defensive midfielders.

Is this a negative boring starting XI?

---------------------Reina
Arbeloa--------Carra------Agger------Aurelio
--------------Masch------Alonso-----------
-------Gerrard------Kewell----Babel--------
--------------------Torres-----------------

Six or seven players in attacking positions when we attack. I can't call that defensive any day of the week.

This is the way Brazil and Barca play.

[Red Chilli]

Is this a negative boring starting XI?

---------------------Reina
Arbeloa--------Carra------Agger------Aurelio
--------------Masch------Alonso-----------
-------Gerrard------Kewell----Babel--------
--------------------Torres-----------------

Six or seven players in attacking positions when we attack. I can't call that defensive any day of the week.

This is the way Brazil and Barca play.

Yes it is. Negative, benign, boring and unsuccessful.

It's not about the names AFII, it's the way the team plays as a whole. It's about the tactics they employ.

6 at the back, I can't think of many things more boring.