Controversial LFC thread.

[El Jefecito]

To be honest either description is equally useless if you ask me. When you say defensive midfielder people associate it with some one who is tied to a deeper position - which Momo blatantly doesn't. An attacking midfielder would be associated with creating chances and hence be given greater positional freedom.

Momo does not create chances as a general rule and all his strengths are destructive (or to use a different word defensive). He doesn't stay in a set position so he doesn't fit into the stereotype of a defensive midfielder.

There is a truth to your original statement in that Rafa will rarely play Momo without a traditional defensive type of midfielder to give someone to bring the ball out of defence. Therefore in a way Momo competes most commonly with an attacking option in midfield - I'm far from convinced that makes him an attacking midfielder though.

There are several connotations to attacking, which is what make's it difficult to pin a role on Momo.

1/ Possessive vs Progressive. Momo moves the ball forward more.
2/ Positioning. Momo maintains an attacking position.
3/ Style. Momo's natural strength is in regaining, vs. retention/distribution.
4/ Creativity. Scores poor here.
5/ Goal threat. Minimal.
6/ Assists. Minimal.

based on that I'd say he's an attacking midfielder just not a very good one.

[dww]

There are several connotations to attacking, which is what make's it difficult to pin a role on Momo.

1/ Possessive vs Progressive. Momo moves the ball forward more.
2/ Positioning. Momo maintains an attacking position.
3/ Style. Momo's natural strength is in regaining, vs. retention/distribution.
4/ Creativity. Scores poor here.
5/ Goal threat. Minimal.
6/ Assists. Minimal.

based on that I'd say he's an attacking midfielder just not a very good one.

Obviously this is a difficult one to pin down but when playing well Momo brings a lot to the team IMO, which is lost in calling him a poor attacking midfielder. I think we need to develop a better vocabulary to describe players roles.

[RedProf]

Obviously this is a difficult one to pin down but when playing well Momo brings a lot to the team IMO, which is lost in calling him a poor attacking midfielder. I think we need to develop a better vocabulary to describe players roles.

I think I once labelled Momo as a forwardly deployed defensive midfielder. ie. his primary job is to win the ball back further up the pitch so we can launch attacks from nearer their half or penalty box.

[dww]

I think I once labelled Momo as a forwardly deployed defensive midfielder. ie. his primary job is to win the ball back further up the pitch so we can launch attacks from nearer their half or penalty box.

I've argued that point on several occasions with Red_Polo. It's a very accurate term but it lacks a little in elegance though.

[RedProf]

I've argued that point on several occasions with Red_Polo. It's a very accurate term but it lacks a little in elegance though.

Aye it does. As you say, maybe we need new terminology, kind of like nicking terms from around the globe - always liked the term "Volante" although that doesn't apply to Momo.

[Howard_lfc]

I think I once labelled Momo as a forwardly deployed defensive midfielder. ie. his primary job is to win the ball back further up the pitch so we can launch attacks from nearer their half or penalty box.

I once remember hearing Pat Rice shouting to the Arsenal players "Get to the ball" all through the game. And for me - this is what Momo does best; he's the first man to break from our line of 4 (for example) and press the opposition forcing them to play sideways. He does this exceptionally well.
(My biggest criticism of SG when playing as one of the two CM's is that he's so concerned with the shape of the team that he doesn't do this enough, or arrives a fraction too late.)

[dww]

Aye it does. As you say, maybe we need new terminology, kind of like nicking terms from around the globe - always liked the term "Volante" although that doesn't apply to Momo.

Indeed and I suspect neither does second volante which I like even more (and would probably be a huge fan of if I was sure I was applying it correctly) as it is a real step forward in position clasification (if I'm right about what it means ).

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

i want us to have another player in the above bracket to pair with gerard and at £17million, i dont think wed be getting fabulous value in the masch

Who is this player you speak of, and if he does exist could we realistically sign and afford him?

[El Jefecito]

Obviously this is a difficult one to pin down but when playing well Momo brings a lot to the team IMO, which is lost in calling him a poor attacking midfielder. I think we need to develop a better vocabulary to describe players roles.

That's kind of what I was trying to draw attention to. The South American site which we all read about Lucas mentioned several different types of 'Volante' can you remember what they were? I've done a search but can't find them

[El Jefecito]

I think I once labelled Momo as a forwardly deployed defensive midfielder. ie. his primary job is to win the ball back further up the pitch so we can launch attacks from nearer their half or penalty box.

[dww]

That's kind of what I was trying to draw attention to. The South American site which we all read about Lucas mentioned several different types of 'Volante' can you remember what they were? I've done a search but can't find them

I only remember the plain Volante and the second Volante (with the latter being more creative attacking but I can't be sure if it was primarily aimed to capture play makers who sit deep like Pirlo or box to box types like Gerrard say).

[El Jefecito]

I only remember the plain Volante and the second Volante (with the latter being more creative attacking but I can't be sure if it was primarily aimed to capture play makers who sit deep like Pirlo or box to box types like Gerrard say).

Sod it, let's make up our own terminology. The various different types of CM I see are (based on the prototypical exponents):

Makele/El Jefecito, purely screens the defense
Ballack, Advanced midfielder, though not really a playmake
Riqueleme/Scholes, an advanced playmaker
Momo, forward lying defensive midfielder
Xabi/Pirlo, deep lying playmaker
Gerrard/Lucas, box-box, primarily advanced

Have I missed any other prototypical players?

[dww]

Sod it, let's make up our own terminology. The various different types of CM I see are (based on the prototypical exponents):

Makele/El Jefecito, purely screens the defense
Ballack, Advanced midfielder, though not really a playmake
Riqueleme/Scholes, an advanced playmaker
Momo, forward lying defensive midfielder
Xabi/Pirlo, deep lying playmaker
Gerrard/Lucas, box-box, primarily advanced

Have I missed any other prototypical players?

I'm not sure if he is a prototype but I can't satisfy myself with Vieira in any of those categories - although you could make a case for a couple. Other than that I think it is a very good list.

I guess that it would be reasonable to use 'holding midfielder' for the Makele/Mascherano position. I have to say I hate putting putting players who do the role like a sweeper, such as those two, and players who kick people before they get to the defense (like Neville) in the same category but otherwise there is a real danger of making categories so small they are meaningless and/or unhelpful.

[lfc1394]

Some people on here are ****ing mental. after 3-4 games it was alonso is ****e, his passing's been rubbish, he's not the same player he was blah blah, we got masch, we don't need him should have sold him in the summer. Now some people are saying masch passing is ****e, we got alonso we don't need him 17mil's too much. Masch is a key player. He allows SG or XA (and later LL) to get the best from their games. We have the best central midfield in the world.

[StevieG08]

Some people on here are ****ing mental. after 3-4 games it was alonso is ****e, his passing's been rubbish, he's not the same player he was blah blah, we got masch, we don't need him should have sold him in the summer. Now some people are saying masch passing is ****e, we got alonso we don't need him 17mil's too much. Masch is a key player. He allows SG or XA (and later LL) to get the best from their games. We have the best central midfield in the world.

Nail on the head mate and what makes it more laughable is a few months down the line many of them will be saying the reverse of what they are now but deny it when challenged:whatever: