Cowboy-boot messiahs show their hand

[Kilteragh]

Dont agree that giving Rafa a public vote of confidence would be tantamount to giving him carte blanche to go on similar rants. At this stage I think it would do more good than harm as it will kill all this damaging speculation. If they want they can give him a dressing down behind the scenes. Putting aside Rafa's lack of professionalism in his comments, sitting on the touchline in a tracksuit etc, Hicks' comments that Rafa should shut up and concentrate on coaching, plus Sunday's ludicrous statement from Gillett/Hicks have been far more damaging to the club and the team.

I've explained why i've assumed the worst - IMO the club, with their statements and consequent silence have driven and fueled the rumours when they could just have easily killed them stone dead if they wanted.

Well **** Hicks, Gillett and Parry. They ****ed it up and their **** ups have rallied the fans behind Rafa, which will now make it harder for them to sack him if they choose.

OK so we don't agree

[Sir Bob]

You're both completely missing my point but Dhavlos you have a reasoned argument.

Undoubtedly something went on behind the scenes. Where I have the problem is with people drawing outrageous conclusions from little or no fact.

Sir Bob - Try reading my posts in full before you judge what I'm saying.
So 2000 people marching means its true that Rafa is going to be sacked does it? Wake up mate :whatever:

It means Reds fans are concerned about the possibility that he might be sacked and want to show their support. It doesn't make it true that he will be though.

Once more - papers ran with the story that Rafa was to be sacked imminently. That turned out not to be true obviously so now all they can say it his job may still be under threat. This is scaremongering which might or might not be true - but my point, for the last time, is that nobody knows and getting into a tizzy over headlines, none of which have been proven, is pointless.

If we need to "cotton on to how serious this is" can you enlighten us on that with facts?

I thought it unlikely that Rafa would be sacked in the short term but I do think he's in grave danger of not being in charge come next season.

As for the 2000 people marching it doesn't mean that Rafa was going to be sacked but it does show that many fans are extremely concerned about the situation. This is something that I can never ever recall happening before.

As for the press I don't automatically believe anythings that written in any paper but equally to dismiss everything thats written is just as stupid. Much of the press coverage is based on rumour, half truths and a combination of both. however, some journalists do have contacts at clubs and are trustworthy. I also don't go with this ante LFC bias stuff in the press. We get no worse a press than other clubs.

I've based my concerns on the following:
Rafa's bizarre press conference
Rafa wearing the tracksuit at Newcastle
Rafa's comment that the owners wouldn't allow him to sort out 2 free transfers for next season
No public backing for Rafa from G&H or Parry
The Echo ( a reliable media source) saying Rafa wasn't able to buy Kaladze.
the Echo's reports this week that there had been a serious breakdown between Rafa & the owners.
Philip McNulty on the BBC website saying Rafa's position at the club was not secure
Mike Ingham on BBC Radio 5 Live saying that he felt it was quite possible Rafa wouldn't be at LFC next season.

Now some of the above is 100% fact. Some is based on media sources that have a good reputation. The Echo, Philip McNulty, Mike Inghham are not gossip merchants. They are not ante LFC people jumping on the so called media hysteria. They are professional well respected journalists who's opinions are well respected in the game.

Thats why I and many others were and still are very concerned about Rafa's long term future.

Let me turn your question on its head. What facts do you have that show Rafa is completely safe at LFC and that people like me are OTT in our concerns.?

[tomasjj]

Can a managers position be 100% safe?

[Kilteragh]

I thought it unlikely that Rafa would be sacked in the short term but I do think he's in grave danger of not being in charge come next season.

As for the 2000 people marching it doesn't mean that Rafa was going to be sacked but it does show that many fans are extremely concerned about the situation. This is something that I can never ever recall happening before.

As for the press I don't automatically believe anythings that written in any paper but equally to dismiss everything thats written is just as stupid. Much of the press coverage is based on rumour, half truths and a combination of both. however, some journalists do have contacts at clubs and are trustworthy. I also don't go with this ante LFC bias stuff in the press. We get no worse a press than other clubs.

I've based my concerns on the following:
Rafa's bizarre press conference
Rafa wearing the tracksuit at Newcastle
Rafa's comment that the owners wouldn't allow him to sort out 2 free transfers for next season
No public backing for Rafa from G&H or Parry
The Echo ( a reliable media source) saying Rafa wasn't able to buy Kaladze.
the Echo's reports this week that there had been a serious breakdown between Rafa & the owners.
Philip McNulty on the BBC website saying Rafa's position at the club was not secure
Mike Ingham on BBC Radio 5 Live saying that he felt it was quite possible Rafa wouldn't be at LFC next season.

Now some of the above is 100% fact. Some is based on media sources that have a good reputation. The Echo, Philip McNulty, Mike Inghham are not gossip merchants. They are not ante LFC people jumping on the so called media hysteria. They are professional well respected journalists who's opinions are well respected in the game.

Thats why I and many others were and still are very concerned about Rafa's long term future.

Let me turn your question on its head. What facts do you have that show Rafa is completely safe at LFC and that people like me are OTT in our concerns.?

I have never said that Rafa is completely safe at LFC. I can understand being concerned at the current situation but I think it has all gone way over the top. All of the quoted sources above have "felt" something or not backed up their claims with anything.

The BBC website coverage was the most disappointing. They tried to fan the flames again after Rafa's Post Newcaslte comments.

People are getting too carried away with nothing concrete to back it up.

[Dhav]

OK so we don't agree

No probs, we agree to disagree

[Roboklopp]

Glass still half empty eh Tom?

I find this article intriguing for a number of reasons, primarily the tone in which it is written. "Cowboy boot messiahs"? Headlines like that don't usually lead to an unbiased dictum. Though admittedly every writer, person even has to have their own opinion, or angle, but just how has this writer arrived at his? Through xenophobic stereotypes, rumours and a few throw away quotes that have absolutely nothing to do with LFC.

Also generalizing that most Liverpool fans have been "mugs" to believe what G+T said they'd do? Really? We were mugs then to believe they'd revamp that awful identikit stadium design, and give us a state of the art new one? Mugs to believe that we'd spend more this summer than we've ever done before on players?

You know what worries me? Jobsworth cunts like this bloke believing a bull**** non-story then trying to create one by character assassination. And lets be honest here, he's been clever enough to tap into most peoples insecurities surrounding the unknown, which our new owners are, we know nothing about them so it’s easy to make up stories and pass them off as fact, because we have no previous reference. I don't know anything about Tom Hicks, so I'm supposed to believe the word of a bloke like this? Unbelievable.

Really surprised Tom that you think this is a “what we’re up against”, or maybe I’ve got it wrong and you really mean we are “up against” the lazy, uninformed speculative journalism that we’ve seen in the past week.

Has Rafa been sacked yet?

Whilst I am on the whole woried by the situation I do agree with most of your points on this article. Most of it is speculation and spin, but the stuff about him laying off staff is worrying though.

[Steve101]

"The Echo, Philip McNulty, Mike Inghham are not gossip merchants."

Im going to take issue with that statement me old mate. I heard John Thompsons interview on radio5 this week, when he said they had been following events very closely, and really didnt have a clue as to what (IF ANYTHING) was really going on, so the echo stories are a bit of a contradiction of that. McNulty was never anything other than a man who wrote reasonable looking copy, but with no meanigful content. His article on the BBC website consists mainly of unsubstantiated tittle-tattle. stuff like 'we understand' usually
means 'were making this up. Ingham? well all ive ever heard him do is repeat stuff ive heard the day before!!

[Roboklopp]

I understand what you're saying, but the simple fact remains, if Rafa's job is safe and the idea of sacking him is not on the agenda, why has the club not released a statement to this effect to end the speculation and rumour-mongering? Parry was quick to comment on the story about Hicks dispensing with his shares today. It doesn't add up.

In the absence of assurances people will clearly assume the worst, hence the fan protest. I'm sure the club knew about the protest ahead of time, Rafa obviously did. If it was all in vain and the club had no intention of sacking Rafa they could have assured us of that and saved us a lot of time, put all that police time to better use also kept the roads open.

I'm of the belief that this situation was extremely critical and still is. If we lose against Marseille and Man U then I wouldn't be surprised if these American cunts use that as the excuse they've been looking for to sack Rafa.

Yes, we can take everything with a pinch of salt and blindly assume the best, not believe anything unless it is factual or is confirmed by an impeccable source and trust the yanks. Or we can get behind our manager and show the yanks how much he means to us and show them it is folly to even consider a scenario whereby Rafa is not Liverpool manager. The time has come for the Liverpool fans to stand beside Rafa and help drive the team on in these difficult times. The club and its owners are patently doing nothing publicly to ease the pressure on the players and coaching staff, so we have to do even more to inspire them and motivate them.

That was one thing that struck me pretty hard.

THe "dreaded vote of confidence" that others mention usually follows something catastrophic operationally happening. That just hasnt been the case on the pitch of late. Had this nonsense occured following our 2 CL defeats then mebbe, just mebbe it would have had that false ring to it, but things have picked up. We have rescued our chance of qualifying for the knock-outs & have started winning in the league again too.

It doesnt take much for Parry to come out with a little statement on the back of the Hicks clarification that the rafa rumours are also "nonsense".

Even if this is simply a power struggle between Hicks & RAfa at the club, that is very bad news in itself. Parry should be making it clear that the manager is in charge of transfers in Engliish football within the budget set out & that budget should be predetermined & usable in advance even if it does allow for the variabke of not qualifying for the CL knock-outs.

[AFII]

Anything can happen when Parry is the middle man, sad but true.

I lost my trust in him a long time ago. I don't think it's beyond him to lie to stay on as our CEO.

He should be sacked as soon as possible. I think that would solve a lot of things.
One fact is that he, and no one else, almost costed us Gerrard.

Get in a CEO that actually can do his job. That would help both G&H and Rafa a lot.

[Rocket]

Anything can happen when Parry is the middle man, sad but true.

I lost my trust in him a long time ago. I don't think it's beyond him to lie to stay on as our CEO.

He should be sacked as soon as possible. I think that would solve a lot of things.
One fact is that he, and no one else, almost costed us Gerrard.

Get in a CEO that actually can do his job. That would help both G&H and Rafa a lot.

hey cunty, how are you doing?

why don't you tell all the nice people on Est what a Chief Exec actually does? go and surf tribal for an answer? no?

who gives a **** if you lost trust in him

he got us potentially the number one manager in world football.

so far, his new owners, who have purchased the club, have been decent. supported Rafa with his transfers during the summer, and on course to build us a tidy stadium.

now **** off back to wherever you came from.

[col]

[QUOTE=Dhavlos;816938]I understand what you're saying, but the simple fact remains, if Rafa's job is safe and the idea of sacking him is not on the agenda, why has the club not released a statement to this effect to end the speculation and rumour-mongering? Parry was quick to comment on the story about Hicks dispensing with his shares today. It doesn't add up.

edit...

I'm of the belief that this situation was extremely critical and still is. If we lose against Marseille and Man U then I wouldn't be surprised if these American cunts use that as the excuse they've been looking for to sack Rafa.
QUOTE]

2 very good points in my opinion. The pro-Rafa campaign has to continue until we see the Jan transfer window well out of the way. Then results will tell....

[Roboklopp]

[QUOTE=col;817197]

I understand what you're saying, but the simple fact remains, if Rafa's job is safe and the idea of sacking him is not on the agenda, why has the club not released a statement to this effect to end the speculation and rumour-mongering? Parry was quick to comment on the story about Hicks dispensing with his shares today. It doesn't add up.

edit...

I'm of the belief that this situation was extremely critical and still is. If we lose against Marseille and Man U then I wouldn't be surprised if these American cunts use that as the excuse they've been looking for to sack Rafa.
QUOTE]

2 very good points in my opinion. The pro-Rafa campaign has to continue until we see the Jan transfer window well out of the way. Then results will tell....

Indeed. I will still be bricking it next summer until the 1st big trnasfer goes thru that is clearly Rafa's- hopefully that'll be Monstermasher ().