Strikers and general ramblings

[alexjamestodd]

My first post so bare with me

One thing that is holding us back from winning the league , i believe , is the amount of goals scored compared to chances made.
I remember when rafa joined and there were games that wed have 20 odd shots on goal but may only score one ( the impressive thing is how we dominated). The system 4231 is very effective and does allow alot of possession and created chances when the players are on form ( Id just like to add tha Rafa is very focused on chances created rather than match outcomes)

The problem then is that when you are creating all these chances - you must have at least two very good strikers. Until Torres arrival (I have been amased at how good he is , class and attitude . I didnt believe that he was as a complete player as he appears to be - yes he was expensive but surely as good as any other world class striker) we didnt have any. Crouch is a player that has improved greatly since his arrival at liverpool and while not being world class - he is very effective and is good in the lone striker role of the 4231 (4231 is essentially 442 just with wide advanced wingers and one striker dropping a bit deep . I have always said that it is just a variation of 442. When gerrard and mascher play it is even a 41131.) Kuyt has a great attitude , a good work rate but is not world class - id keep him tho . Vorinin is an okay play but not world class.

So apart from the lack of world class strikers, the real problem i believe is this ~

PARTNERSHIPS

throughout soccer history there have been great striking partnerships - maybe one scored more than the other but he could not have done it without the other. Owen /heskey Shearer/sutton (not great partnerships but very goo ones)

Two strikers that play together reguarly will develop a sixth sense understanding that will increase there chances of dominating defences and scoring goals .

Therefore i believe that our strikers are not being utilised properly.

The partnerships ibelive are most effective are . torres/kuyt crouch/voronin

these combinations work for us and if used more often will bring us more goals.

a any other combos just dont work -

any team that has kuyt as a lone striker will not score many goals - he is best working behind the main man as the centre of the 3.

a kuyt / voronin partnership is bottom of the table stuff and would not bring silverware .

Crouch/voronin would work because ibelieve that there styles of play would compliment each other nicely.

MIDFIELD PARTNERSHIPS

The same sixthsense applies here - gerrard/mascher is a great combo that compliments well and i believe that xavi /levia would ork nicely also .

So the point im trying to get at is this - rotation is good and it works but change partnerships for games ie torres/kuyt midweek - crouch/voronin at the weekend

those partnerships could win us the league - gerrard/mascher >> keane/scholes

So a decent winger , a decent centre back and we are almost there

p.s kewell looks exceptionally good at the top of his game
pps levia a nd babel are great buys
ppps RAFA MUST STAY
pppps the first 20 against porto when we had wingers wide and looking for the ball was fantastic to watch

Thanks

[alexjamestodd]

Just like to add some squad replacements that would be effective and in budget

voronin out - anelka/adriano/defoe in - all seem to be available for 10mil or less and while attitudes are suspect , either one to partner crouch would work well.

Leto out , the left winger at blackburn in .
sami (legend!!!!) out - kompany / vande borre / in

thats it , apart from possibly alves who could replace finnan and pennent

[Milan_Milan]

My first post so bare with me

One thing that is holding us back from winning the league , i believe , is the amount of goals scored compared to chances made.
I remember when rafa joined and there were games that wed have 20 odd shots on goal but may only score one ( the impressive thing is how we dominated). The system 4231 is very effective and does allow alot of possession and created chances when the players are on form ( Id just like to add tha Rafa is very focused on chances created rather than match outcomes)

The problem then is that when you are creating all these chances - you must have at least two very good strikers. Until Torres arrival (I have been amased at how good he is , class and attitude . I didnt believe that he was as a complete player as he appears to be - yes he was expensive but surely as good as any other world class striker) we didnt have any. Crouch is a player that has improved greatly since his arrival at liverpool and while not being world class - he is very effective and is good in the lone striker role of the 4231 (4231 is essentially 442 just with wide advanced wingers and one striker dropping a bit deep . I have always said that it is just a variation of 442. When gerrard and mascher play it is even a 41131.) Kuyt has a great attitude , a good work rate but is not world class - id keep him tho . Vorinin is an okay play but not world class.

So apart from the lack of world class strikers, the real problem i believe is this ~

PARTNERSHIPS

throughout soccer history there have been great striking partnerships - maybe one scored more than the other but he could not have done it without the other. Owen /heskey Shearer/sutton (not great partnerships but very goo ones)

Two strikers that play together reguarly will develop a sixth sense understanding that will increase there chances of dominating defences and scoring goals .

Therefore i believe that our strikers are not being utilised properly.

The partnerships ibelive are most effective are . torres/kuyt crouch/voronin

these combinations work for us and if used more often will bring us more goals.

a any other combos just dont work -

any team that has kuyt as a lone striker will not score many goals - he is best working behind the main man as the centre of the 3.

a kuyt / voronin partnership is bottom of the table stuff and would not bring silverware .

Crouch/voronin would work because ibelieve that there styles of play would compliment each other nicely.

MIDFIELD PARTNERSHIPS

The same sixthsense applies here - gerrard/mascher is a great combo that compliments well and i believe that xavi /levia would ork nicely also .

So the point im trying to get at is this - rotation is good and it works but change partnerships for games ie torres/kuyt midweek - crouch/voronin at the weekend

those partnerships could win us the league - gerrard/mascher >> keane/scholes

So a decent winger , a decent centre back and we are almost there

p.s kewell looks exceptionally good at the top of his game
pps levia a nd babel are great buys
ppps RAFA MUST STAY
pppps the first 20 against porto when we had wingers wide and looking for the ball was fantastic to watch

Thanks

Good post on the whole, partnerships are important and rotation should take into account who plays best together, particularly in central midfield and attack.

As for Gerrard and Mascherano being better than Keane and Scholes, behave!! Keane and Scholes (though I'm loathe to admit it) were pretty much the best partnership of their era, and it'll be a while before any partnership can claim to be as good as theirs (though its worth noting that not many teams play that sort of flat 442 these days).

[Mattshark]

Just like to add some squad replacements that would be effective and in budget

voronin out - anelka/adriano/defoe in - all seem to be available for 10mil or less and while attitudes are suspect , either one to partner crouch would work well.

Leto out , the left winger at blackburn in .
sami (legend!!!!) out - kompany / vande borre / in

thats it , apart from possibly alves who could replace finnan and pennent

Defoe! surely you have to be joking, he is appalling, he is as bad as Cisse. Adriano is a waster.
Why get rid of two players who have only been here a couple of months?

[alexjamestodd]

actually i half agree with you on defoe - I just remember when he was 15 and scoring a hat trick a game for bournemouth. He could be the owen to crouchs heskey.

Adriano IS world class - just an unhappy bugger

[Nicey]

My first post so bare with me

One thing that is holding us back from winning the league , i believe , is the amount of goals scored compared to chances made.
I remember when rafa joined and there were games that wed have 20 odd shots on goal but may only score one ( the impressive thing is how we dominated). The system 4231 is very effective and does allow alot of possession and created chances when the players are on form ( Id just like to add tha Rafa is very focused on chances created rather than match outcomes)

The problem then is that when you are creating all these chances - you must have at least two very good strikers. Until Torres arrival (I have been amased at how good he is , class and attitude . I didnt believe that he was as a complete player as he appears to be - yes he was expensive but surely as good as any other world class striker) we didnt have any. Crouch is a player that has improved greatly since his arrival at liverpool and while not being world class - he is very effective and is good in the lone striker role of the 4231 (4231 is essentially 442 just with wide advanced wingers and one striker dropping a bit deep . I have always said that it is just a variation of 442. When gerrard and mascher play it is even a 41131.) Kuyt has a great attitude , a good work rate but is not world class - id keep him tho . Vorinin is an okay play but not world class.

So apart from the lack of world class strikers, the real problem i believe is this ~

PARTNERSHIPS

throughout soccer history there have been great striking partnerships - maybe one scored more than the other but he could not have done it without the other. Owen /heskey Shearer/sutton (not great partnerships but very goo ones)

Two strikers that play together reguarly will develop a sixth sense understanding that will increase there chances of dominating defences and scoring goals .

Therefore i believe that our strikers are not being utilised properly.

The partnerships ibelive are most effective are . torres/kuyt crouch/voronin

these combinations work for us and if used more often will bring us more goals.

a any other combos just dont work -

any team that has kuyt as a lone striker will not score many goals - he is best working behind the main man as the centre of the 3.

a kuyt / voronin partnership is bottom of the table stuff and would not bring silverware .

Crouch/voronin would work because ibelieve that there styles of play would compliment each other nicely.

MIDFIELD PARTNERSHIPS

The same sixthsense applies here - gerrard/mascher is a great combo that compliments well and i believe that xavi /levia would ork nicely also .

So the point im trying to get at is this - rotation is good and it works but change partnerships for games ie torres/kuyt midweek - crouch/voronin at the weekend

those partnerships could win us the league - gerrard/mascher >> keane/scholes

So a decent winger , a decent centre back and we are almost there

p.s kewell looks exceptionally good at the top of his game
pps levia a nd babel are great buys
ppps RAFA MUST STAY
pppps the first 20 against porto when we had wingers wide and looking for the ball was fantastic to watch

Thanks

One of the best posts I have read for awhile mate and I agree wholeheartedly with your observations

[Johnny]

One of the best posts I have read for awhile mate and I agree wholeheartedly with your observations

T`was a good post alright.

[alexjamestodd]

Thankyou gentlemen

[dww]

Very good first post.

I agree with you about partnerships to a degree but would in general prefer to think of combinations. I think for example the make up of who is in the wide midfield positions has a big effect on the striking partnership of choice.

I also think the same is true of the Mascher/Gerrard central pairing. On paper it is genius but in practice the rest of the team has to be balanced correctly to make it work in my opinion. Gerrard vacates the central space a lot and when we have Sami at the back we can be vulnerable on the counter. Mascher is brilliant at breaking up attacks but his long range passing is not great so he requires people to give him options for quick, short passes or sideways low risk passes all at which he is excellent at seeing and executing at speed.

[Exiled_red]

I think Torres and Crouch are out two best strikers and our best partnership, with Torres pace and Crouchs height defenders don't know if they should play deep or push up as they can't really do either as they become vulnerable to one or the other. Crouch's presence on the pitch draws defenders to him leaving space for others to play in

[Imy]

Agree with your partnership sentiments.

If Torres is our Rush/Aldridge we need a Dalglish/Beardsley type striker who adds guile/genius and something different to what Torres provides. The Manc have got probably got the best two in my opinion that would gel well with Torres and provide something different, the two being Tevez and Rooney.

Obviously they are unattainable so who else can fall in to that category?

[carheex]

I was taking the original post seriously until it mentioned the great partnership of owen and heskey!! didn;t see any point in reading more after that.

[Catrin]

Agree with your partnership sentiments.

If Torres is our Rush/Aldridge we need a Dalglish/Beardsley type striker who adds guile/genius and something different to what Torres provides.

I would have thought that Torres is more of a Dalglish/Beardsley type striker than a Rush/Aldridge and that we actually need a clinical poacher to play off him.

[Shaggy]

I would have thought that Torres is more of a Dalglish/Beardsley type striker than a Rush/Aldridge and that we actually need a clinical poacher to play off him.

This is the beauty of Torres.

Some people think he's a Kenny/Beardo type, others think he's an out and out line-leader.

The truth is, he's so good, so complete, that he is equally adept in either role.

Personally I'd love to see us buy a genuinely top class 'in the hole' type player and leave Torres predominantly on the last man's shoulder.

[alexjamestodd]

agree totally about torres- he can do either role - i originally thought that he couldnt be a last man type of striker but with his strenght and pace he does it well.

Regarding playing crouch/torres together - Unfortunately at the moment if we played these two together then we would have no options of the bench - at least with crouch or torres on the bench you have options.

A point i forgot to mention - Kewell , definately our best left winger , but i believe that he could play in the "hole" very effectively