The SG 'reach around' thread

[AFII]

Torres is an infinitely better player than Owen IMO (creates his own chances etc, great touch and control etc), but he is not yet a finisher in the same class as Owen was for us (remember under Houllier we'd only create one or two chances a game but Owen would invariably score them). Once Torres becomes the a bit more clinical and starts putting away the type of chances he had at Newcastle which he tends to occasionally miss, then I think we will have the best striker in world football.

Spot on.

[Red_Al_77]

Torres is a class above Owen. Torres can be as good as the young Robbie Fowler was.

[Kopite_Colin]

Torres is not as clinical with 1 on 1s as Owen was at his peak. I love Torres, but whilst being a real success this season he has been wasteful at times. Torres and Owen are completely different types of striker with Torres being the more complete.

[JohnDoe]

I beg to differ. I came up with the definition in 1938 during the world cup in Italy

Look at Gerrard. He was online with Lucas at CM in this match when we had possession and Gerrard dictated the pace. He threw the big passes. Lucas was never the playmaker today. Not even close. That was Gerrard and only Gerrard.

Throwing the big passes doesn't mean a thing. Lucas had the ball first 80% of the time once we gained possession, Lucas sat deeper and basically did everything you'd expect from Alonso in a game like this: shifting the balance from one flank to the other, picking up the balls from the back four and moving it around. Gerrard had a free role, but he wasn't the go-to-guy today.

His job is to cause carnage in the final third when he makes his runs from deep, yeah he's a great passer when he's the mood, but give him the sole responsibility of creating our attacks and he fails every time. Put him with a pure defensive midfielder and two wide players who stick out wide and he won't be able to do a thing. On the other hand, once you surround him with creativity (Lucas, Benayoun, Kewell), he shines.

Why? Because he doesn't have to think about what to do, he's under no pressure to "carry" us forward, he just does his thing, and he does it well, playmaking it is not.

[Shaggy]

Throwing the big passes doesn't mean a thing. Lucas had the ball first 80% of the time once we gained possession, Lucas sat deeper and basically did everything you'd expect from Alonso in a game like this: shifting the balance from one flank to the other, picking up the balls from the back four and moving it around. Gerrard had a free role, but he wasn't the go-to-guy today.

His job is to cause carnage in the final third when he makes his runs from deep, yeah he's a great passer when he's the mood, but give him the sole responsibility of creating our attacks and he fails every time. Put him with a pure defensive midfielder and two wide players who stick out wide and he won't be able to do a thing. On the other hand, once you surround him with creativity (Lucas, Benayoun, Kewell), he shines.

Why? Because he doesn't have to think about what to do, he's under no pressure to "carry" us forward, he just does his thing, and he does it well, playmaking it is not.

Is right.

Absolved of playmaking and, to an extent, defensive duties, Gerrard shines almost every time. He's all instinct and impact - he doesn't control games.

Great to see him playing so well again. 8 goals in his last 9 is it? Outstanding return.

[CAD]

Throwing the big passes doesn't mean a thing. Lucas had the ball first 80% of the time once we gained possession, Lucas sat deeper and basically did everything you'd expect from Alonso in a game like this: shifting the balance from one flank to the other, picking up the balls from the back four and moving it around. Gerrard had a free role, but he wasn't the go-to-guy today.

His job is to cause carnage in the final third when he makes his runs from deep, yeah he's a great passer when he's the mood, but give him the sole responsibility of creating our attacks and he fails every time. Put him with a pure defensive midfielder and two wide players who stick out wide and he won't be able to do a thing. On the other hand, once you surround him with creativity (Lucas, Benayoun, Kewell), he shines.

Why? Because he doesn't have to think about what to do, he's under no pressure to "carry" us forward, he just does his thing, and he does it well, playmaking it is not.

It's all fine and dandy but Gerrard was the playmaker today. He was the one who dictated the pace. Fast or slow. Wide or narrow. Lucas has a job and it was to cover whenever we lost the ball. He had little impact when we were in possession. That's the Gods honest truth.

[CAD]

Is right.

Absolved of playmaking and, to an extent, defensive duties, Gerrard shines almost every time. He's all instinct and impact - he doesn't control games.

Great to see him playing so well again. 8 goals in his last 9 is it? Outstanding return.

Gerrard does control games. He had this one in his pocket. To say that he was not a playmaker today is nonsense. He went as deep for the ball as Lucas. Lucas more or less had two jobs. Retrieve the ball and give the ball to Gerrard as much as possible.

[McDermotX]

Is right. He's all instinct and impact - he doesn't control games.

Exactly........something Johnny Giles has been suggesting all the time whenever
the whole "central midfield" argument is thrown around by the media regarding Stevie G

[AFII]

Lucas is our Pirlo or Xavi.
Gerrard a better version of Kaka.

[JohnDoe]

It's all fine and dandy but Gerrard was the playmaker today. He was the one who dictated the pace. Fast or slow. Wide or narrow. Lucas has a job and it was to cover whenever we lost the ball. He had little impact when we were in possession. That's the Gods honest truth.

If there is one thing Gerrard is absolutely clueless in, is dictating the pace and controlling a game. There's a difference between controlling a game and making an impact. Gerrard plays at only one pace, frantic, I've never seen him slow a game down effectively. Leave that to the Alonso's, Pirlo's and Xavi's of the world.

Lucas did exactly what Alonso does in games so if you consider Alonso as a playmaker (you do, right?) then I don't know what was missing with Lucas, swap his shirt to a number 14 and I could barely make a difference.

We must have watched a different game.

[JohnDoe]

Lucas is our Pirlo or Xavi.
Gerrard a better version of Kaka.

To a certain extent, this is a good analogy, though I'd replace Lucas with Alonso and call Lucas "a younger version of Alonso"

[CAD]

If there is one thing Gerrard is absolutely clueless in, is dictating the pace and controlling a game. There's a difference between controlling a game and making an impact. Gerrard plays at only one pace, frantic, I've never seen him slow a game down effectively. Leave that to the Alonso's, Pirlo's and Xavi's of the world.

Lucas did exactly what Alonso does in games so if you consider Alonso as a playmaker (you do, right?) then I don't know what was missing with Lucas, swap his shirt to a number 14 and I could barely make a difference.

We must have watched a different game.

Watch the match again:

No - Lucas did not have the ball 80% of the time. Gerrard had the ball much more than Lucas.

Look at the slow passing cross court at CM in the first half between Lucas and Gerrard. The notion that Gerrard is a 'chicken brain' who can only play one pace football "head under the shoulder" is simplistic nonsense. A LFC board kneejerk falsum if there ever was one.

In the 1st half when the game was still close, we played a flat midfield with Gerrard and Lucas side by side when we were off the ball. We played more or less without a HM in that period.

Lucas didn't even have 1/3 of the impact on our game than Gerrard had when we were on the ball. Not a bad thing, just a fact.

Gerrard did indeed dictate pace today. He was a playmaker if I ever saw one.

[Red_Polo]

Totally agree about Gerrard in the middle. He's a quality player at RM but it's at CM where he can be truly exceptional.

I don't think Gerrard will ever be one to 'control' games, but he can and will dominate them. There's definitely a distinction there.

[cobain]

Lucas is our Pirlo or Xavi.
Gerrard a better version of Kaka.

Couldn't agree more

[cobain]

Watch the match again:

No - Lucas did not have the ball 80% of the time. Gerrard had the ball much more than Lucas.

Look at the slow passing cross court at CM in the first half between Lucas and Gerrard. The notion that Gerrard is a 'chicken brain' who can only play one pace football "head under the shoulder" is simplistic nonsense. A LFC board kneejerk falsum if there ever was one.

In the 1st half when the game was still close, we played a flat midfield with Gerrard and Lucas side by side when we were off the ball. We played more or less without a HM in that period.

Lucas didn't even have 1/3 of the impact on our game than Gerrard had when we were on the ball. Not a bad thing, just a fact.

Gerrard did indeed dictated pace today.

Yes, but Gerrard wouldn't do all of that without Lucas there