The SG 'reach around' thread

[anfieldanfield]

Is right.

Absolved of playmaking and, to an extent, defensive duties, Gerrard shines almost every time. He's all instinct and impact - he doesn't control games.

Great to see him playing so well again. 8 goals in his last 9 is it? Outstanding return.

Bang on.

[AFII]

Totally agree about Gerrard in the middle. He's a quality player at RM but it's at CM where he can be truly exceptional.

I don't think Gerrard will ever be one to 'control' games, but he can and will dominate them. There's definitely a distinction there.

His best position is a free position to move all over the pitch but with attacking as his first option.

Play him as one of the three behind one striker and we will get the best out of him. We have changed positions a lot on the pitch in our latest games.

Kewell, Gerrard, Benny, Crouch, Kuyt, Voronin and Babel don't really have any fixed position. They change a lot during the games which means that it's very difficult to defend against.

[CAD]

Couldn't agree more

But it's still nonsense...

Gerrard didn't play a free role like Kaka does. What's more; Kaka is a striker more than anything else. Gerrard had defensive duties en masse today.

I would have thought that Torres is our Kaka and Gerrard is our Seedorf and that Mascher is our Gattuso and Lucas/Alonso is our Pirlo. But comparing these players still makes little or no sense. We also play another system than Milan in many aspects.

[Kopite_Colin]

His best position is a free position to move all over the pitch but with attacking as his first option.

I agree with that.

However,

Play him as one of the three behind one striker and we will get the best out of him. We have changed positions a lot on the pitch in our latest games.

I definitely do not agree with that. Gerrard needs to play behind TWO strikers. if he plays behind one, he gets marked too tightly and too easily picked up. With a second striker occupying the 2nd centre back. SG gets much more room to burst through from CM.

[JohnDoe]

Watch the match again:

No - Lucas did not have the ball 80% of the time. Gerrard had the ball much more than Lucas.

I said he had the ball first 80% of the time, as in the first player to receive the ball from the back four and start the play.

Look at the slow passing cross court at CM in the first half between Lucas and Gerrard. The notion that Gerrard is a 'chicken brain' who can only play one pace football "head under the shoulder" is simplistic nonsense. A LFC board kneejerk falsum if there ever was one.

Bit of an exaggeration. Never said Gerrard is a headless chicken, he just doesn't have a few qualities that others do, nothing wrong with that.

Lucas didn't even have 1/3 of the impact on our game than Gerrard had when we were on the ball. Not a bad thing, just a fact.

Has nothing to do with the definition of a playmaker.

[JohnDoe]

Gerrard needs to play behind TWO strikers. if he plays behind one, he gets marked too tightly and too eailt picked up. With a second striker occupying the 2nd centre back. SG gets much more room to burst through from CM.

Agree. Gerrard in the Aimar role is nice in theory, and I did want to see it at a time when we lacked strikers, but it just doesn't work as well as when he's behind two strikers. When he's too far up the pitch, he's too far from the action.

[Red_Polo]

Edited and deleted a few posts here. Let's not let this thread turn into a slanging match, good topic thus far. Any queries please PM me rather than discussing off-topic here.

AFII, I think it's good for Stevie to have the freedom to roam a bit but I do think he should be central more often than not as opposed to continually switching with others. I think he should be fairly deep lying as far as attacking players go too, certainly not filling the void behind a lone striker.

[CAD]

I said he had the ball first 80% of the time, as in the first player to receive the ball from the back four and start the play.



Bit of an exaggeration. Never said Gerrard is a headless chicken, he just doesn't have a few qualities that others do, nothing wrong with that.



Has nothing to do with the definition of a playmaker.

I'm not English. What is your definition of a playmaker?

[JohnDoe]

I'm not English. What is your definition of a playmaker?

Was away from the computer for a bit, back now.

A playmaker is someone who controls the flow of the game and its main job is to keep possession, distribute the ball and shift the balance between different parts of the team in order to launch an organized offense on the opposition.

There are a few positions a playmaker can fit in, and as a result, different types of players can fit the term, but all have the same crucial attributes: Creativity, vision, awareness and consistently good passing ability.

There's the old, classic playmaker who sits just behind the striker, like Aimar has done for Valencia. There's the wide playmaker, who cuts inside to get involved (Zidane started at LM for Real Madrid) and there's the deep lying midfielder like Alonso, Xavi, Pirlo, Redondo etc.

A playmaker is the metronome of the team. Wherever he's located, things "start" from him and then move on to other players. He doesn't have to be the main threat in attack. For example, while Ronaldinho and Messi are fantastic players, they don't pull the strings at Barca (Xavi or Deco do).

I don't consider Gerrard as a playmaker, because he doesn't do the things I've mentioned above. His plays involve instinct, not careful planning. Whenever he's a threat, it's when he's on the move. A standing Gerrard isn't a threat to the opposition, a standing Pirlo free from pressure 40 yards from goal is a menace. Gerrard doesn't do well against a packed defence when he needs to pull the strings, a playmaker is supposed to relish that situation.

Gerrard can be creative, he does have some vision for a pass, but he's just not as good or consistent in it to be the "go-to-guy" in the team. He has good company though.

When Barca bought Ronaldinho, he started playing as the classic No. 10 behind a striker, it lasted 6 months. It just didn't work, he was a fantastic player with everything you could want from an attacker, but he couldn't carry the side. They moved him wide, gave the leash to Xavi, made Ronaldinho have fun again doing what he does best, wreak havoc. He did that without the burden of playmaking, the rest is history.

[Howard_lfc]

Gerrard is good in the middle when he's got a playmaker next to him, when he's not burdened with the job of starting attacks he's much more comfortable to do his thing. Lucas ran the show today and Gerrard made the impact he's expected to do.

Remember how he looked like in this midfield earlier in the season?

Pennant-Gerrard-Masch-Riise/Babel

I've said this all along. When he's with Alonso he's fine otherwise - he's best deployed out wide.

[AFII]

Gerrard isn't a playmaker. He is a midfield engine with extra turbo.

Lucas and Xabi are our playmakers.

The wrong player got the golden ball today.

[CAD]

Was away from the computer for a bit, back now.

A playmaker is someone who controls the flow of the game and its main job is to keep possession, distribute the ball and shift the balance between different parts of the team in order to launch an organized offense on the opposition.

There are a few positions a playmaker can fit in, and as a result, different types of players can fit the term, but all have the same crucial attributes: Creativity, vision, awareness and consistently good passing ability.

There's the old, classic playmaker who sits just behind the striker, like Aimar has done for Valencia. There's the wide playmaker, who cuts inside to get involved (Zidane started at LM for Real Madrid) and there's the deep lying midfielder like Alonso, Xavi, Pirlo, Redondo etc.

A playmaker is the metronome of the team. Wherever he's located, things "start" from him and then move on to other players. He doesn't have to be the main threat in attack. For example, while Ronaldinho and Messi are fantastic players, they don't pull the strings at Barca (Xavi or Deco do).

I don't consider Gerrard as a playmaker, because he doesn't do the things I've mentioned above. His plays involve instinct, not careful planning. Whenever he's a threat, it's when he's on the move. A standing Gerrard isn't a threat to the opposition, a standing Pirlo free from pressure 40 yards from goal is a menace. Gerrard doesn't do well against a packed defence when he needs to pull the strings, a playmaker is supposed to relish that situation.

Gerrard can be creative, he does have some vision for a pass, but he's just not as good or consistent in it to be the "go-to-guy" in the team. He has good company though.

When Barca bought Ronaldinho, he started playing as the classic No. 10 behind a striker, it lasted 6 months. It just didn't work, he was a fantastic player with everything you could want from an attacker, but he couldn't carry the side. They moved him wide, gave the leash to Xavi, made Ronaldinho have fun again doing what he does best, wreak havoc. He did that without the burden of playmaking, the rest is history.

Just back as well.

I still think that SG was the playmaker today. Nothing you can say will change that. I do agree in general that the Gerrard of last season was not a playmaker. He was too impatient, impulsive, undisciplined. But things change. The Gerrard we saw today was indeed patient, composed and very disciplined. Gerrard is becoming a playmaker and we are all witnessing the transformation these months. We are a better side with Torres, Babel, Yossi. That's part of the reason. But Gerrard is playing a different kind of football this season compared to the last.

Things change and the Gerrard of this season does have all the attributes of a great playmaker. We are also a much more entertaining side when Gerrard dictates the game like he did today.

[CAD]

I've said this all along. When he's with Alonso he's fine otherwise - he's best deployed out wide.

You are kidding, Les??!
We just seen Gerrard at CM with Lucas and Mascher for more than a month. How you can even get that out of your fingers is beyond me.

[Skillz]

Just back as well.

I still think that SG was the playmaker today. Nothing you can say will change that. I do agree in general that the Gerrard of last season was not a playmaker. He was too impatient, impulsive, undisciplined. But things change. The Gerrard we saw today was indeed patient, composed and very disciplined. Gerrard is becoming a playmaker and we are all witnessing the transformation these months. We are a better side with Torres, Babel, Yossi. That's part of the reason. But Gerrard is playing a different kind of football this season compared to the last.

Things change and the Gerrard of this season does have all the attributes of a great playmaker. We are also a much more entertaining side when Gerrard dictates the game like he did today.

I actualy agree with a lot of this. Gerrard has been much more disciplined this year when central. He was very deep today and CAD is well within his rights to make his point here. No doubt Lucas had an excellant game aswell but it was hard to tell who playing the holding midfielder at times. It was shared IMO.

[desertscouser]

You'll notice that "debate" has died a death recently.

That's because there simply isn't one.

Exactly.

Gerrard is a central midfielder. In any other position his talents are wasted.