The SG 'reach around' thread

[dww]

You are kidding, Les??!
We just seen Gerrard at CM with Lucas and Mascher for more than a month. How you can even get that out of your fingers is beyond me.

I think the most helpful way of looking at Gerrard is as an explosive attacking midfield player. In order to accomodate him in the middle in Rafa's formations we need other players to control possession in the central area and to prevent counter attacks. At times we can do that with Gerrard as part of the central duo but in most games this will not be the best option. Gerrard has improved which has led him to be a more capable CM in Rafa's formation but he is not the finished article in that capacity IMO.

Therefore Gerrad has to be regarded as part of an attacking quartet. Obviously he will see most ball in a central role and this is likely to be where he performs best. However the three behind the main striker are likely to be very fluid and depending on the opposition, the other available players and the opposition at times it might be most effective for the team as a whole that he plays on the right.

[Skillz]

I think the most helpful way of looking at Gerrard is as an explosive attacking midfield player. In order to accomodate him in the middle in Rafa's formations we need other players to control possession in the central area and to prevent counter attacks. At times we can do that with Gerrard as part of the central duo but in most games this will not be the best option. Gerrard has improved which has led him to be a more capable CM in Rafa's formation but he is not the finished article in that capacity IMO.

Therefore Gerrad has to be regarded as part of an attacking quartet. Obviously he will see most ball in a central role and this is likely to be where he performs best. However the three behind the main striker are likely to be very fluid and depending on the opposition, the other available players and the opposition at times it might be most effective for the team as a whole that he plays on the right.

Really good post.

Stevie has shown over the last month how good a CM can be both attacking and defending. He has really impressed me with his ability to play a more disciplined role culminating with his "mentor" role for Lucas. Thought last night was Gerrard's best captain's game for the 90 minutes.

But we have other's who play that role just as well whereas we do not have anyone with Gerrard's ability going forward. That's why I leave it to Rafa to decide and at the end of the day, over the last 2 years, I have seen forums convince themselves of both and probably back again in some cases.

[Maestro]

Stevie G's performance in our last 3 matches:

Newcastle - Rocket of a free-kick…..goal
- Decent corner delivery for Kuyt….assist
- Killer ball to Babel at the end of a sweet passing move...assist

Porto - Decent corner delivery for Torres to score….assist
- Penalty taken….goal
- Decent corner delivery for Crouch to score….assist

Bolton - Free-kick onto Hyypia's head…assist
- Sumptuous 40 yard defence-splitting pass for Torres…assist
- Penalty taken…goal

Whichever way you would like to define him, there is no doubt that our captain has been highly productive of late, and this scintillating form is a joy to behold.

[loco_law]

Well in.

[dww]

Seeing as you bought it up - of late our corners seem to have improved. In the last few years I never thought I'd see a game when we scored two from them like we did vs Porto.

In the end I think it is the little things like making the most of set pieces that will divide the team that wins the league from their closest challengers. This year unlike most recently I think there will be at least three teams in the hunt until close to the end of the season.

[Sir Bob]

SG's best position is clearly CM. Is he faultless there , no of course not. He can leave us exposed defensively at times but no player is perfect and overall I wouldn't swap him for anybody.

Does he control games, for me he does in that he dictates our play. He also sets the tempo for our game, particulary when the tempo needs lifting. He's not the sort of player to kill a game, to slow the tempo down, but if we need a goal more often than not he's at the heart of things driving the team forward.

For me though, he controls games through his ability to score and create. nothing gives a team control of a game like goals do. Yesterday was typical. He didn't control the game in the sense that he dictated our tempo but he was at the heart of all our attacking play. He scored one and set 2 up. Now if that isn't controling a game then I don't know what is.

[JohnDoe]

For me though, he controls games through his ability to score and create. nothing gives a team control of a game like goals do. Yesterday was typical. He didn't control the game in the sense that he dictated our tempo but he was at the heart of all our attacking play. He scored one and set 2 up. Now if that isn't controling a game then I don't know what is.

If you are correct then every midfielder in the world who's a good attacking player that scores goals and creates chances can be billed as a playmaker. Dictating only one pace isn't really controlling a game, Gerrard is a very influential, and ****ing good player but "controlling" a game the way he does against a side like Bolton at home, surrounded by creative players, isn't a mark for anything.

[fred_plasticine]

If you are correct then every midfielder in the world who's a good attacking player that scores goals and creates chances can be billed as a playmaker. Dictating only one pace isn't really controlling a game, Gerrard is a very influential, ****ing good player but "controlling" a game the way he does against a side like Bolton at home, surrounded by creative players, isn't really a mark for anything.

it doesn't matter against "weaker" sides that he's not able to slow the game down but when you play a top side you need a player who does know how to change the pace of the game, how to keep possession and play it simple when needed. gerrard sometimes tries to rush things and plays killer balls too ofter which tend to go astray more often than not against compact teams.

[JohnDoe]

it doesn't matter against "weaker" sides that he's not able to slow the game down but when you play a top side you need a player who does know how to change the pace of the game, how to keep possession and play it simple when needed. gerrard sometimes tries to rush things and plays killer balls too ofter which tend to go astray more often than not against compact teams.

You only need to look back just a few weeks ago in games where Alonso was out and Lucas wasn't on the pitch to see what I'm talking about.

How about the Everton game for example? We didn't have any direction and our organized offense was non existent, Rafa went and did the most bizarre yet bravest substitution that I can remember, and suddenly things started to click and we looked a lot better against Everton's packed defence. You might say Gerrard shouldn't have been the one to come off and I will probably agree, but we definitely needed Lucas on the pitch.

[CAD]

If you are correct then every midfielder in the world who's a good attacking player that scores goals and creates assists can be billed as a playmaker.

You billed Zidane a playmaker, right? Pirlo might be called a playmaker but what is Seedorf on his best day?

I think we have to agree that the terminology opens up a wide variety of interpretations? Looking at yesterdays match I think Gerrard was very much the playmaker. With much more success than he has had in the past.

He did go deep to get the ball.
He did take the tempo out a bit when we needed it. Especially in the first half.
He kept his position beautifully and never isolated Lucas. (He didn't drift like he has been known to do in the past).

I think it's one of the most important things that could happen to LFC if Gerrard continues this development. It will make life so much more easy for his partner at CM as well. It will give us more possibilities that Gerrard is able to take on the role of a playmaker. We saw Alonso struggle last season when Gerrard drifted. It was bloody well near impossible to be a playmaker at times. Alonso was being crowded and didn't get enough time on the ball to hit the long passes and Gerrard was not there to help in the build up. Whenever he did go deep he had a tendency to do a Hollywood pass.

With this 'new' and improved Gerrard I predict that we will not suffer nearly as much in the future. We finally have the right balance because Gerrard seems to be growing up.

That's all I'm saying

[CAD]

You only need to look back just a few weeks ago in games where Alonso was out and Lucas wasn't on the pitch to see what I'm talking about.

How about the Everton game for example? We didn't have any direction and our organized offense was non existent, Rafa went and did the most bizarre yet bravest substitution that I can remember, and suddenly things started to click and we looked a lot better against Everton's packed defence. You might say Gerrard shouldn't have been the one to come off and I will probably agree, but we definitely needed Lucas on the pitch.

Let's not forget that they were only 10 for almost 40mins (courtesy of SG). Only natural that we would sit on the match in the 2nd half. Had Rafa opted to take off Momo, I think it would have been 4-1 instead of 2-1.

But Gerrard did respond really well to that "insult".

[tomasjj]

Not disagreeing with the majority of the sentiment in this thread, but do remember what Rafa did against Everton when he subbed him. Just because we needed someone who could be more calm and dictate play, and not try to do it all alone.

Not a pop at SG, but I reckon he gets to eager at times, but he is mostly an instinctive player, and we should look to give him the opportunity to follow those instincts most of the time.

[JohnDoe]

You billed Zidane a playmaker, right? Pirlo might be called a playmaker but what is Seedorf on his best day?

Seedorf is definitely not one, bloody good player but I've never seen him carrying attacks in the way I'm talking about.

With this 'new' and improved Gerrard I predict that we will not suffer nearly as much in the future. We finally have the right balance because Gerrard seems to be growing up.

That's all I'm saying That's all I'm saying

I actually don't think Gerrard is growing up at all or improving, he's in good form right now, but the team around him is the one improving and making it easier for him to do well.

Benayoun is a superior player to Pennant and Garcia because he knows how to carry the ball and has great game intelligence. Kewell is back from injury and is looking class, you've got Lucas who's just so much better than Sissoko it's not even funny, Torres: enough said and Arbeloa has been a massive improvement on Riise at left back when going forward.

From what I've seen this season, whenever Gerrard played without one of Alonso, Lucas or Benayoun, he usually struggles. We need at least one of them on the pitch, though two is the ideal for me. Kewell also helps Gerrard's game a lot.

[CAD]

Seedorf is definitely not one, bloody good player but I've never seen him carrying attacks in the way I'm talking about.



I actually don't think Gerrard is growing up at all or improving, he's in good form right now, but the team around him is the one improving and making it easier for him to do well.

Benayoun is a superior player to Pennant and Garcia because he knows how to carry the ball and has great game intelligence. Kewell is back from injury and is looking class, you've got Lucas who's just so much better than Sissoko it's not even funny, Torres: enough said and Arbeloa has been a massive improvement on Riise at left back when going forward.

From what I've seen this season, whenever Gerrard played without one of Alonso, Lucas or Benayoun, he usually struggles. We need at least one of them on the pitch, though two is the ideal for me. Kewell also helps Gerrard's game a lot.

If you label Aimar a playmaker then you could do the same with Seedorf. That's my point.

We won't agree on this one. It's been a pleasure though

[JohnDoe]

If you label Aimar a playmaker then you could do the same with Seedorf. That's my point.

We won't agree on this one. It's been a pleasure though

The position of the player doesn't have anything to do with being a playmaker or not, Seedorf and Aimar are completely different in their style, I think most would agree.

Alright