Who cares how we win as long as we win?

[alunevans]

85pts is within our reach.


2004-05 First 19 - 31pts Sec 19 27pts
2005-06 First 19 - 41pts Sec 19 41pts
2006-07 First 19 - 33pts Sec 19 35pts

As you can see, our second half performance season wise isn't wildly better than our first half of the season tally. That does tend to shock people. In 2004-2005, he may have thrown away a few points at the end but if he hadn't then it would simply have brought his second half performance back into line with the first half performance.

Advocates of rotation claim that we kick on after Xmas, but these figures state that we don't.

They also suggest that the first 19 games gives us an outstanding view of how well we'll do in the second set of 19 games.

On that basis, we can expect around 72 to 78 points which will probably put us in 3rd again. It also suggests that progress wise, we've not moved on from the 2005/06 season.

I'd be interested in seeing Man U's stats for first half/ second half of season. They are our key rivals in my view and many pundits claim that they are the team who kick on after Xmas, but that could be a piece of punditry mythology too.

Can anyone supply the stats?

[alunevans]

Aye, well that's my point.



41, that sounds more like it. So if we won our game in hand and repeated that, we'd finish on 80. I'd like to think we're a more capable outfit now than back then, so it's definitely doable. So is going out with a whimper though, a lot of hard graft to be done game by game.

You'd like to think, but our first 19 games suggest we're a less capable outfit than back then.

[alunevans]

To win the league this season isn't realistic but we can do it with a little bit of luck but at the same time a few injuries to key players

Even without Stevie and Torres for a while I'd expect this Liverpool squad to finish top 4. I think top 4 is the minimum any Liverpool team can expect.

Losing two quality players for a while should put a dent in title ambitions but shouldn't shunt us into 5th or worse.

And if it did then there'd be questions to be asked in my view.

[AFII]

Even without Stevie and Torres for a while I'd expect this Liverpool squad to finish top 4. I think top 4 is the minimum any Liverpool team can expect.

Losing two quality players for a while should put a dent in title ambitions but shouldn't shunt us into 5th or worse.

And if it did then there'd be questions to be asked in my view.

I can only go by how we have played so far this season when Torres/Gerrard hasn't delivered.

We have been struggling big time when they have had an off day.

It's worrying that a whole team and any tactic can fall apart just because of two players even if they are two top class players.

[Red_Al_77]

As you can see, our second half performance season wise isn't wildly better than our first half of the season tally. That does tend to shock people. In 2004-2005, he may have thrown away a few points at the end but if he hadn't then it would simply have brought his second half performance back into line with the first half performance.

Advocates of rotation claim that we kick on after Xmas, but these figures state that we don't.

They also suggest that the first 19 games gives us an outstanding view of how well we'll do in the second set of 19 games.

On that basis, we can expect around 72 to 78 points which will probably put us in 3rd again. It also suggests that progress wise, we've not moved on from the 2005/06 season.

I'd be interested in seeing Man U's stats for first half/ second half of season. They are our key rivals in my view and many pundits claim that they are the team who kick on after Xmas, but that could be a piece of punditry mythology too.

Can anyone supply the stats?

Manure

2004-05 First 19 - 37pts Second 19 - 40pts
2005-06 First 19 - 41pts Second 19 - 42pts
2006-07 First 19 - 47pts Second 19 - 42pts

Would also suggest we need 87pts this season to win the league

[StevieG08]

Lets be realistic here-
Home Away
Manc cunts W9 D1 L0 W5 D2 L2
Arse Holes W9 D1 L0 W4 D4 L1
Gods Reds W4 D4 L1 W6 D2 L1

It's clear we don't win enough games, the draws against Brum and Spurs at home and the draw against B'burn away and the defeat to Reading away have pushed us out of the title race big time. I feel we underestimated those teams and now we can see how much damage those dropped points cost us. We need to put these teams to the sword more regularly if we want to win the league. The Mancs are expert at winning tight games, late goals in the dying minutes etc. We need to do what we did against Derby far more often in order to win the league.

[Red_Polo]

You'd like to think, but our first 19 games suggest we're a less capable outfit than back then.

It says we've not performed as well as we did back then, but I can't agree it's because we are less capable. We've got a better squad now. It will take a monumental effort to win the league but we've got it in us. That 41 points haul was achieved by a team whose title chances were seen as long gone. If we get right back in there soon and put together a run, we give ourselves a shot. It's ****ing hard, yes, but since when have we done things the easy way?

[alunevans]

Manure

2004-05 First 19 - 37pts Second 19 - 40pts
2005-06 First 19 - 41pts Second 19 - 42pts
2006-07 First 19 - 47pts Second 19 - 42pts

Would also suggest we need 87pts this season to win the league

cheers, another myth exploded then. the "man u kick on" and "fergie tunes them up for the second half of the season". all guff it seems.

they do roughly as well in pt 2 as pt1

i can't see us getting 87 pts from the last 19 games can you.

[alunevans]

It says we've not performed as well as we did back then, but I can't agree it's because we are less capable. We've got a better squad now. It will take a monumental effort to win the league but we've got it in us. That 41 points haul was achieved by a team whose title chances were seen as long gone. If we get right back in there soon and put together a run, we give ourselves a shot. It's ****ing hard, yes, but since when have we done things the easy way?

All I'd say is that if our squad is better then they'd better prove it. Proof of the pudding and all that.

And if our squad is better on paper but not in fact, it will beg a few questions as to why an apparently improved squad delivers a worse points tally than two years ago.

But I take your point, we have more match winners in the team than we did then, and more depth in some areas.

Remarkably threadbare for a title winning side in others though in my view.

[Johnny]

To win the league this season isn't realistic but we can do it with a little bit of luck but at the same time a few injuries to key players could see us finish outside the top four.

It's a very thin line between success and fiasco.

Everyone that have seen us this season knows how important Stevie and Torres are for us.

With them we can beat every team in the world but without them we struggle to score any goals at all.

We need to sign more top quality attacking players so our success isn't depending on that Stevie and Torres stays fit the whole season because that isn't realistic.

You could say the same about Manure and Rooney/Ronaldo.

Chelsea with Lampard/Drogba.

[Mattimetal]

if past seasons are anything to go by then we will get between 72 and 78 points this year.

the reason i say that is that in every year that rafa has been in charge, his points tally from the second 19 games in the season has all but exactly matched the points tally from the first half of the season.

Disagree mate Rafa hasn't had this sort of squad NOR TORRES since he's been in charge. FACT!

[Alan Key]

cheers, another myth exploded then. the "man u kick on" and "fergie tunes them up for the second half of the season". all guff it seems.

they do roughly as well in pt 2 as pt1

i can't see us getting 87 pts from the last 19 games can you.

I think rather than them kicking on they simply have an ability to maintain their level. Which normally leaves other title contenders in their wake. For example if they get 45 points again in the second half of the season they wont be caught.

This is the difference with us. We actually do kick on and get more points in the second half of the season. The question is 'are we close enough this year to make that count?'. I for one certainly hope so.

[Red_Al_77]

I think rather than them kicking on they simply have an ability to maintain their level. Which normally leaves other title contenders in their wake. For example if they get 45 points again in the second half of the season they wont be caught.

This is the difference with us. We actually do kick on and get more points in the second half of the season. The question is 'are we close enough this year to make that count?'. I for one certainly hope so.

We don't. If you check back in this thread I've posted the comparisons under Rafa. There is no discernible difference.

[redmann]

The games we have won , we've won them in the first twenty minutes or so, i think weve got players that should give there all to bury teams in the first 45 minutes as we can field replacements , take babel hes a shadow of himself unless as a second half sub , we need high tempo games this suits us best

[dww]

All I'd say is that if our squad is better then they'd better prove it. Proof of the pudding and all that.

And if our squad is better on paper but not in fact, it will beg a few questions as to why an apparently improved squad delivers a worse points tally than two years ago.

But I take your point, we have more match winners in the team than we did then, and more depth in some areas.

Remarkably threadbare for a title winning side in others though in my view.

I think you are using the wrong metric. You should look at how close we are to the top IMO to gauge progress. That way you take the improvement of the mid table teams into account (Everton, Villa, Pompey, Man City, Blackburn are now much better teams than they were a few years ago and than the teams that occupied similar positions then).