bruce is a legend.

[Johnny]

mmmmmmm, I do understand your points but my counter arguement would be - Whilst Brucie was in goal for us we were at our amazing best and most successful, all players who worked with him speak exceptionally highly of him and theres no doubting that he liked to be an entertainer as well as simply a goalkeeper, rather than take away from his legend it adds to it, who loves boring gets?

The match fixing allegations I see as Brucie, who is no stranger to trouble and strife, being opportunistic and at the end of the day who can blame him.

What I will say is this, if he wasnt playing well or doing "suspicious" things whilst in goal he would have been dropped faster than Jodie Marshs knickers.

Brucie = Legend, nobody or nothing will change that for me.

Good post right there.

[Red Chilli]

You see, I'm afraid I'm going to have to buck the prevailing trend and state that I never rated Grobbelaar that highly.

For me, the best keepers are always those that make the fewest mistakes and can be relied on to make the right decisions more often than not. Grobbelaar frequently failed on both counts. It was common for him to make two or three ridiculous errors of judgement in a game and it was usually in the lap of the gods as to whether these clangers would result in a goal being conceded.

Too often his mistakes were costly, and I could quite easily reel off about a dozen goals, many of which were significant, that were a direct result of a Grobbelaar howler. It was always my contention that the trophies won in the '80's were achieved in spite of having Brucie in goal rather than because of his contribution. I'm not denying his agility or reflexes, nor his capacity for pulling off the most unlikely of saves (one I remember at home to Man City in 82, from a point blank Peter Bodak volley, was amongst the best saves I've witnessed). But it was the bread and butter of the game that he was often found wanting on.

And apart from all that, the match-fixing allegations forever tainted him in my eyes. Although never conclusively proven, and loathe as I am to be seen to side in any way whatsoever with the world's biggest piss-rag, the sight of Grobbelaar on video talking about throwing Liverpool matches whilst eagerly fingering an envelope stuffed with wads of cash, rivalled OJ Simpson's "I didn't do it honest but if I had this is how I'd have stabbed her to tiny bits" in the self-incrimination stakes.

I'm not saying he was rubbish. Just that his admirable trophy haul perhaps clouds some of his obvious weaknesses.

Still, what do I know. I thought Chris Kirkland was going to be better than Clemence when he signed for us. Bugger.

Didn't he go 9 seasons (in the days of 42 league games) in a row without missing a game (league and cup) for the best team in the UK/ europe? If he was so prone to errors and clangers I think he would have been dropped at some stage.
I hear what you are saying, he was prone to ridiculous errors which occasionally were costly but overall he bailed the defence out more often than he made his errors.
Agree with your sentiments about the match fixing.

[loco_law]

Do NOT talk poorly about Bruce. End of.

[Darth Marty]

Do NOT talk poorly about Bruce. End of.

[ronanm]

My Mrs bumped into him in our local church on Christmas eve. He was at the same midnight service as her.

Me? I was still in the pub.

I hear he gave her a midnight service

[loco_law]

I hear he gave her a midnight service

ZIIIIIIIIIIIIIING!!!!!

[Red Chilli]

loco, if you want owt signing off bruce just let me know, or if your in the north west and you fancy a round of golf with him

[loco_law]

F off mate, serious?

[Red Chilli]

F off mate, serious?

PM on the way

[zimbo]

mmmmmmm, I do understand your points but my counter arguement would be - Whilst Brucie was in goal for us we were at our amazing best and most successful, all players who worked with him speak exceptionally highly of him and theres no doubting that he liked to be an entertainer as well as simply a goalkeeper, rather than take away from his legend it adds to it, who loves boring gets?

The match fixing allegations I see as Brucie, who is no stranger to trouble and strife, being opportunistic and at the end of the day who can blame him.

And my argument remains that Grobbelaar made more mistakes than any top class keeper ever should, and that it's mistakes rather than saves on which all keepers should be judged. Entertaining he may have been but, then again, some people may find it entertaining watching Timmy Mallett ****ting into a wok. Either way you're inevitably left with an unpleasant mess and reliant on others to clean up for you.

And I for one would unequivocally blame him if he's taken money in exchange for planning to throw Liverpool matches (and much of the evidence is fairly damning). That's not the action of a cheeky, lovable rogue - it's a scandalous insult to every Liverpool supporter and a disgrace to his profession.

Didn't he go 9 seasons (in the days of 42 league games) in a row without missing a game (league and cup) for the best team in the UK/ europe? If he was so prone to errors and clangers I think he would have been dropped at some stage.
I hear what you are saying, he was prone to ridiculous errors which occasionally were costly but overall he bailed the defence out more often than he made his errors.
Agree with your sentiments about the match fixing.

Think he went 5 years without missing a game. Impressive record, I wouldn't disagree. But having watched him pretty much every week for the best part of 7 years I'd certainly reiterate that our successes were largely achieved in spite of Grobbelaar, with every game spent waiting for the obligatory Brucie Blunder. Painful though it is to admit, imagine what we'd have won with Southall in goal.

Do NOT talk poorly about Bruce. End of.

If Grobbelaar was involved in plans to throw matches he deserves to be strung up from the roof of the Kop with Rick Parry's most lurid tie, no question. Failing that, I'm more than happy to reserve my criticisms for his goalkeeping.
I'm not trying to deliberately demonise your hero, by the way. I'm just going on what I saw.

And I haven't even mentioned the ponytail.........

[loco_law]

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Hear that? it's the sound of your talking time being over.

Now take your soapbox and peddle that crap somewhere else, Mr Negative.

[zimbo]

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Hear that? it's the sound of your talking time being over.

Now take your soapbox and peddle that crap somewhere else, Mr Negative.

Yes. Superb points. Very well made.

[loco_law]

Thank you. I do like to indulge in a good bru-haha every now and then.

[zimbo]

Is that anything like a Babycham?

I would myself, but I wouldn't want to get a bit squiffy and topple off my soapbox.

[Darth Marty]

hope you break your neck as you land.