A Reality check for deluded fans.

[John_Gotti]

Classic Post of the year so far

[ronan]

There are no excuses for that, aside from 5 players this squad was bought entirely by Rafa.

6

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

There are no excuses for that, aside from 5 players this squad was bought entirely by Rafa.

6

Harry Kewell doesn't count.

[Morph]

There are no excuses for that, aside from 5 players this squad was bought entirely by Rafa.

6

Harry Kewell doesn't count.

it will be 5 after we show riise the door

[bigfooty]

That's the one, thanks.

I guess he didn't see your counter-argument since he didn't respond in that thread and has simply repeated what he said there in this one as though he hasn't felt a need to take into account what you say, let alone revise his opinion. It's strange though because he did respond to other people on that thread after you posted.

I thought you came up with a good alternative explanation that at least would complicate if not entirely undermine the "Ferguson isn't relevant any more" assertion. Perhaps we're both just wrong.

I haven't had the time to look into it further to verify if he's accurate in the monetary issue. He may have a point but clearly we are, or have been, one of the richest and biggest spending clubs in our league and it is certainly true that the richest club does not win the league every season.

Certainly it would be a brave man that suggests Valencia were in the same financial league as Barca and Real when they denied them twice in three seasons. More likely there were other factors such as those teams underperforming which, when you look at the tables and the points the teams got in them, certainly seems more the case than Valencia dominating the league. I mean Valencia barely won half their matches that first season.

[Neil Young]

I haven't had the time to look into it further to verify if he's accurate in the monetary issue. He may have a point but clearly we are, or have been, one of the richest and biggest spending clubs in our league and it is certainly true that the richest club does not win the league every season.

Certainly it would be a brave man that suggests Valencia were in the same financial league as Barca and Real when they denied them twice in three seasons. More likely there were other factors such as those teams underperforming which, when you look at the tables and the points the teams got in them, certainly seems more the case than Valencia dominating the league. I mean Valencia barely won half their matches that first season.

FFS, you go to some lengths to make sure you don't give Rafa any credit.

OK, we disagree.

[bigfooty]

FFS, you go to some lengths to make sure you don't give Rafa any credit.

OK, we disagree.

He clearly did a fantastic job at Valencia without the spending power of Barca or Real but he's not replicating that here in this league with us despite having substantial funds. Yes, not as much as Chelsea or Man Utd, but substantial nonetheless.

It takes more to win the Premiership than La Liga and sometimes I feel Rafa doesn't understand this which is why he goes with 4-5-1 at home to Wigan, rests the likes of Torres for other league fixtures whilst frequently playing Kuyt not because of the threat he offers but because of the protection he can provide.

[Red Chilli]

Best laugh I've had all year

[johnp]

http://www.basesixty.com/avatars/djs.jpg

FLMAO

[vonk]

In no way shape or form do I want him replaced.

But I have concerns about him. I'm of the opinion that anyone who doesn't have doubts or concerns about Rafa are the deluded ones.

I have to question why you'd use the comparison with Demento to re-enforce your point. There's simply no need. Also it's assumptive to suggest that because Rafa has achieved more in the earlier years of his career in English football than Ferguson did, that in the future he'll continue to be successful.

I think the general frustration stems from our failure to progress from title hopefuls to title challengers. We see our excellent performances against the best in Europe, and then you wonder how we manage to drop points at home to Wigan.

Let's state the facts here; during Rafa's tenure we haven't challenged for the league title - of course this is dependent on the definition of a title challenge, still being in with a chance by Easter seems reasonable.

And this is where I have my concerns. I see him taking off Torres and Gerrard against Reading when there was still a chance of getting something from that game, and I wonder what message that sends, not to the fans but the players. This is speculation on my part, but I get the impression that Rafa doesn't believe he can win the league with this current squad of players (and he may be right), he's even hinted so, the problem is that I think the majority of players now believe this also. So to me it's no surprise that the team go into games against the scum lacking belief. If your manager doesn't believe in you why should you believe in yourself?

Then there's his strange obsession with using opaque tactical anomalies which simply cannot be rationally explained. Crouch on the left? Kuyt on the right? Even more frustrating is our style of football, or lack of it. Most worrying of all is that without Gerrard and Torres we seem to lack the courage and conviction to pass the football, and more importantly create and score goals. There are no excuses for that, aside from 5 players this squad was bought entirely by Rafa.

As far as I'm concerned you can buy all the world class players you like, but to win the league our manager has to improve and or change his methods. Either adapt and survive, or don't and you won't. It's that simple now for Benitez.

So it's all fine and well saying we shouldn't replace the manager, but surely we should criticize him for his failings which are currently apparent? Or would it be better if we were all superfans? In that case Houllier would still be here. Food for thought?

A ****ing excellent post. Sums it up for me.

[Flake]

Classic Post of the year so far

Best laugh I've had all year

Its only the 8th of January...

[Red11]

A ****ing excellent post. Sums it up for me.

Charles, nail hit head...

[Fiddy]

Sorry I can see with my own eyes and hear with my own ears.

I heard what he said about the Ambulance crew.

I heard what he said that ref.

The bloke is a cunt.

Yes, your third party, indirect experience is far more on the money than everyone else's first hand contact...

Whose 'first hand contact', exactly?! I'm not sure you see the irony in you talking about 'first hand contact' when you're merely going off a few quotes in the media yourself.

I'm still not sure how any Red can stomach the idea of 'welcoming' him anyway, especially after:



(couldnt find a pic of the exact incident anywhere on google for some reason)

Anyway who had the last laugh Mourinho you tosser - over £300m spent and you still never got close again to the CL trophy that sits in our cabinet, and then you got sacked because your owner got tired of your ego and you were losing your dressing room.

I don't want that drama queen anywhere near us, the Americans have brought enough of a circus act as it is without that bollocks every week too.

[Fiddy]

As Man Utd are our biggest rivals I thought I'd take a look at Alex Fergusons first years in charge. And there is no doubt, Rafa is far and way more successfull than Ferguson, in every way possible. Mind you, as Rafa has already bettered Fergies success in Europe in his first three seasons, thats not suprising. To be fair to Fergie, only first place got you in the top Euro competition when he took over, but lets not forget that Man Utd came second the season prior to winning it.

People always seem to forget the initial failings of Alex Ferguson though. Man Utd took a huge downward spiral when Fergie took over. Prior to him getting the job they had finished in the top 4 in the previous four seasons.

When he took over, despite spending big money he finished 11th in the league. The following season he finished 2nd and despite being considered title contenders, the following season they finished 11th.

His 4th season was the watershed, again they were poor in the league - in the relegation places at one point despite spending £6m on three players alone, one of which was a record transfer fee for a defender. In fact as it is famously known, Mark Robins saved Fergie from the sack with a vital FA cup goal, which they eventually went on to win (his first trophy). The following season they won the Euro Cup winners cup and the rest as they say is history.

So........ We've done better in the league, better in Europe, Won the FA cup before Fergie, and also made a league cup final, which Fergie didn't.

That, in my opinion, is the first years of the greatest club manager around today. And Rafa is right on track to bettering this.

I see no reason to rip it up and start again.

Good post, shame it will be wasted on all the 'I want it now' brigade, most of whom should **** off and support the barcodes.

That's not to say Rafa shouldn't be questioned because he has made mistakes, but there's no doubting we've got a better team AND squad than we've had for years - a couple more 'studs' and a few things clicking and you could argue we'd be there. The Rafalution is in its' closing stages, it's only a bit of evolution we need now and barring a disastrous end to the season I think it would be madness to even consider a change of manager this summer.

[Guest]

Good post, shame it will be wasted on all the 'I want it now' brigade, most of whom should **** off and support the barcodes.

That's not to say Rafa shouldn't be questioned because he has made mistakes, but there's no doubting we've got a better team AND squad than we've had for years - a couple more 'studs' and a few things clicking and you could argue we'd be there. The Rafalution is in its' closing stages, it's only a bit of evolution we need now and barring a disastrous end to the season I think it would be madness to even consider a change of manager this summer.

That's one of your better posts.