A Reality check for deluded fans.

[ronan]

DJS ,why do you even bother going to the game?

[Craig_H]

I'd have more hope if Rafa was getting the best out of the players we have. That squad is stronger than all but Chelsea and Man Utds. Yet we are inconsistent and have been playing very poor football for a few months now. We haven't yet figured out to to break down lesser teams that 'park the bus' at Anfield. We still have no plan B except hoofing it up to Crouch. The players look like strangers and seem to me to have no confidence.

How will one or two world class signings change that?

[Craig_H]

DJS ,why do you even bother going to the game?

Why shouldnt i?

(I shouldnt bother even replying to this, it's another post obviously questioning my 'worthiness' as a fan)...

[dww]

I'd have more hope if Rafa was getting the best out of the players we have. That squad is stronger than all but Chelsea and Man Utds. Yet we are inconsistent and have been playing very poor football for a few months now. We haven't yet figured out to to break down lesser teams that 'park the bus' at Anfield. We still have no plan B except hoofing it up to Crouch. The players look like strangers and seem to me to have no confidence.

How will one or two world class signings change that?

Depending on the signings by bringing leadership and intelligence to our attacks and hence giving us more chance of breaking down stubborn defences, along with the obvious benefits of having better players in the team in this regard.

I would suggest that at times this season we have played very good football but we have been a very temperamental side who when our confidence goes play a dull and instictively defensive game. Part of the problem has no doubt been injuries lacking reducing the options in our squad which has a large effect on a manager like Rafa who likes to have a variety of alternatives available to him.

Obviously the above comments lay a portion of blame at Rafa's door and I think that is fair. For me this season his biggest problem seems to have revolved around his man management with some players not always looking like they are feeling confident. I have faith that when a few of the players like Babel and Benayoun have had longer to settle they will contribute more and if we can get a run together this will build their confidence in Rafas methods. I have faith in Rafa and believe he is the right man to take us forward but he has to deal with a difficult situation at present which is at least partly of his own making.

[ronan]

Why shouldnt i?

(I shouldnt bother even replying to this, it's another post obviously questioning my 'worthiness' as a fan)...

no its not,
you dont rate the manger ,you dont think we'll win anything and genuinely seem to find a negative point in everything about the club at the moment.
if i was in the same state of mind as you i dont think i'd go.
not havin a pop at you lad ,your entitled to your opinion as is everyone but just cant understand someone in your mindset who goes to a large ammount of home and aways

[Craig_H]

no its not,
you dont rate the manger ,you dont think we'll win anything and genuinely seem to find a negative point in everything about the club at the moment.
if i was in the same state of mind as you i dont think i'd go.
not havin a pop at you lad ,your entitled to your opinion as is everyone but just cant understand someone in your mindset who goes to a large ammount of home and aways

Where have i said i dont think we'll win anything? I've recently posted in reply to someone who dismissed our CL hopes and said that on the contrary, i think we have a great chance in europe. Not having a go at you here, but this is the kind of thing that frustrates me, people dont actually pay attention to what i say unless it suits their argument.

I dont not 'rate' the manager, i just think his current methods have achieved all they can and that he needs to change them. But i know he wont.

At the game it's a different story, i sing my arse off and totally get into it.

In the cold light of day though, i am very concerned.

[Charlie_B]

The problem we have is, IMO, is we have only 6 players that are worthy of a first team slot, week in, week out; Reina; Carra, Agger; Gerrard, Mascherano (and there's little certainty that he's even going to stay) and Torres. You look at United, when fit; the whole back 5 practically, Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, and 1 of Carrick/Hargreaves; that's a hell of a lot more than we have. Our squad players, prior to this season there was nothing in it; obviously United splashing £30m on the two guys from Portugal puts into perspective how far behind we are. However, I don't think there's any difference between the Arbeloas and the Browns, or the Fletchers and Kewells or the Parks and Benayouns; in fact I'd go as far to say that we're better off. For me, we need to buy players that go straight into the first eleven every week. That's to say, Kuyt, Kewell, Benayoun, Babel, Riise, aren't good enough for 30 games a season to win the league.

[Craig_H]

I think those players ARE good enough for upto 30 games a season.

We should be easily able to beat everyone outside the other big 3 at home and maybe 10 of those sides away from home, even with the squad we currently have.

It's not capability that i question, it's actually putting it into practice and delivering. We dont do it.

[Neil Young]

Why? It's is utterly incompatible with modern day football.

Recent history, and by that I mean the last 7/8 seasons, clearly demonstrates that in the major leagues of Europe unless a manager wins the title in his first 3 years in charge he's got virtually no chance of winning the championship thereafter. Just in England, Spain, Italy and Germany and alone there have been 16 different champions since the turn of the millenium and only 1 of those was a team where the manager won it after being at the club for more than 3 seasons. They rest were either clubs that had sustained period of success with a manager that had already won the league for them or, for the vast majority, ones where new coaches had come in and achieved league success extremely early in their careers.

Heck, even Rafa himself took over a Valencia side that had, in the 4 seasons prior to his taking charge, finished 9th, 3rd, 4th and 5th. This was a team that had not won the title for 30 years. Yet he won the league with them in his first season without massively outspending his rivals, or spending on a par with them. Yet at Liverpool he apparently needs 4-5 seasons of planning, rebuilding and, if you look at what some fans advocate, he needs to take his spending on players up to 200M in January & the Summer. Because that's what all managers need.

There is a lot to be said for a new manager bringing a fresh approach with new ideas to an already strong squad, which we do have, as the facts from around the elite of European football demonstrates.

Didn't someone (dww I think) give you a perfectly reasonable alternative explanation of your historical "analysis" in another thread? Perhaps you responded, triumphantly destroying the counter-argument and I missed it or maybe I'm just imagining it - age plays tricks with the mind you see.

Does anyone know the post/thread I'm referring to?

[ronan]

Where have i said i dont think we'll win anything? I've recently posted in reply to someone who dismissed our CL hopes and said that on the contrary, i think we have a great chance in europe. Not having a go at you here, but this is the kind of thing that frustrates me, people dont actually pay attention to what i say unless it suits their argument.

I dont not 'rate' the manager, i just think his current methods have achieved all they can and that he needs to change them. But i know he wont.

At the game it's a different story, i sing my arse off and totally get into it.

In the cold light of day though, i am very concerned.

fair enough

[Flake]

[Robster007]

As Man Utd are our biggest rivals I thought I'd take a look at Alex Fergusons first years in charge. And there is no doubt, Rafa is far and way more successfull than Ferguson, in every way possible. Mind you, as Rafa has already bettered Fergies success in Europe in his first three seasons, thats not suprising. To be fair to Fergie, only first place got you in the top Euro competition when he took over, but lets not forget that Man Utd came second the season prior to winning it.

People always seem to forget the initial failings of Alex Ferguson though. Man Utd took a huge downward spiral when Fergie took over. Prior to him getting the job they had finished in the top 4 in the previous four seasons.

When he took over, despite spending big money he finished 11th in the league. The following season he finished 2nd and despite being considered title contenders, the following season they finished 11th.

His 4th season was the watershed, again they were poor in the league - in the relegation places at one point despite spending £6m on three players alone, one of which was a record transfer fee for a defender. In fact as it is famously known, Mark Robins saved Fergie from the sack with a vital FA cup goal, which they eventually went on to win (his first trophy). The following season they won the Euro Cup winners cup and the rest as they say is history.

So........ We've done better in the league, better in Europe, Won the FA cup before Fergie, and also made a league cup final, which Fergie didn't.

That, in my opinion, is the first years of the greatest club manager around today. And Rafa is right on track to bettering this.

I see no reason to rip it up and start again.

:whatever: to the premature doubters.

[Revo]

hahahahaha ****ing ha

[Dan]

[Charlie_B]

I think those players ARE good enough for upto 30 games a season.

We should be easily able to beat everyone outside the other big 3 at home and maybe 10 of those sides away from home, even with the squad we currently have.

It's not capability that i question, it's actually putting it into practice and delivering. We dont do it.

I have to disagree; you compare Evra to Riise, Ronaldo/Giggs/Nani to ANY of the players we have on our wings, and either or Saha or Tevez compared to any one of our strikers bar Torres and they come up tops, every time. We need GENUINE quality in more areas across the pitch, we don't have it enough just yet.