For once and for all...

[bigfooty]

You could argue that La Liga has far more depth than the Premiership and therefore both a win and a draw are harder results to achieve and will, over the course of a season, make up the 10 or so points difference.

I'm not sure how you can claim that when, in the past 20 years, there have been 5 different La Liga champions but 7 different Premier League champions.

[Reece]

It's not, you're right.

But when discussing their views that Rafa can/will win the PL, so many people site his Valencia achievements as part justification for the view that he'll win the PL too. And i find that absurd.

I don't think people are using it to say he WILL win the PL but rather that he COULD win it. So in what way is that absurd?

If we were to get a new manager, who would you chose? I bet you'd chose someone with a track record of winning league titles, be it in this country or another (top league obviously).

[Craig_H]

I don't think people are using it to say he WILL win the PL but rather that he COULD win it. So in what way is that absurd?

If we were to get a new manager, who would you chose? I bet you'd chose someone with a track record of winning league titles, be it in this country or another (top league obviously).

The fact that he won La Liga has no bearing whatsoever on whether he can/will or cant/wont win the PL.

I'd choose the best available person for the job, who is IMO JM.

And it's partly due to the fact that he has proven capable of achieving what we need to achieve. I wouldnt want him based on the fact that he won the Portugese title, because it bears no relevance to the task of winning the PL at all.

[Exiled_red]

You've obviously looked into this and it's a good find all this information, but in my opinion you could inturpret it two ways: one is to say as you have that the points Rafa got wouldn't translate to a premiership victory, alternatively you could argue that as the top teams are getting less points that the "weaker teams" in Spain are better than the weaker teams in England, which would have the opposite effect to your arguements.

Personally I'm not sure what I feel about stats like this, as they are not important, for example it doesn't matter which team has the most shots, its the one that scores the most thant counts

[Woobus]

I'm not sure how you can claim that when, in the past 20 years, there have been 5 different La Liga champions but 7 different Premier League champions.

You going back 20 years to prove your point? In the last 10 there have been 4 winners in Spain and 3 in England. Surely it is better to look at the last 10 than 20?

[Craig_H]

You've obviously looked into this and it's a good find all this information, but in my opinion you could inturpret it two ways: one is to say as you have that the points Rafa got wouldn't translate to a premiership victory, alternatively you could argue that as the top teams are getting less points that the "weaker teams" in Spain are better than the weaker teams in England, which would have the opposite effect to your arguements.

Personally I'm not sure what I feel about stats like this, as they are not important, for example it doesn't matter which team has the most shots, its the one that scores the most thant counts

What's 'most shots' got to do with anything i've said?

Rafa's used to a league where you can draw and lose far more games than you can in the PL, and still be champions. That's probably why he uses the same methods.

He was even questioned once about whether he thinks he might need to change how he does things and his reply was that he doesnt see why he should change things that have worked for seven years.

This to me suggests that he underestimates the differences between the two leagues.

[kris90210]

It seems that it's against the law to think Rafa's methods arent going to work though.

Comparing the points tally required to win the Premiership and La Liga is totally irrelevant in my opinion. They are totally different competitions! The thing I (and I think most people) take from Benitez winning La Liga with Valencia is that he was able to finish above two of the best sides in the world with limited resources twice in 3 years.

What methods are you talking about exactly? Zonal marking? Changing formation to exploit the oppositions weakness? Rotation? Rafa's transfer policy?

[bigfooty]

I don't think people are using it to say he WILL win the PL but rather that he COULD win it. So in what way is that absurd?

If we were to get a new manager, who would you chose? I bet you'd chose someone with a track record of winning league titles, be it in this country or another (top league obviously).

Maybe, Maybe not.

I have to admit Capello would have been high up the list had Rafa gone back when he had the falling out. I've always liked O'Neill even if there is a feeling amongst a number of fans that he isn't quite at the level of LFC, but he's done a decent job at Villa despite inheriting a poor squad and not having spent fortunes. He's also got plenty of European experience.

It's worth noting that whilst Mourinho and Ferguson came here having had high profile success they were managers of clubs in comparatively small football nations, not the behemoths of Italy, Spain or Germany even, whilst Wenger won the French league once and came to Arsenal via Japan.

My own view is that we should stick with Rafa until the end of the season but if things continue as they are he will almost certainly be out the door come the Summer, if not before. I can't see him being kept around if we finish this season 4th and without a trophy and, really, nor should he be.

[bigfooty]

You going back 20 years to prove your point? In the last 10 there have been 4 winners in Spain and 3 in England. Surely it is better to look at the last 10 than 20?

Heh well you say that but then you have to remove Ferguson from the equation and he alone is the example many, many LFC fans give as why Rafa deserves more seasons and more money.

And if you do that then it comes to my point I mentioned earlier, that the last 8 or so years has proven that if your manager doesn't win the league in his first 3 seasons he never will.

[Snigger]

Top being the most recent winners to bottom:
Real
Barca
Barca
Valencia
Real
Valencia
Real
Depor
Barca
Barca

Real and Barca are the big two. All the others take turns in challenging. It seems to me the pressure is not enough in La Liga, and the top teams get complaicent at times. It is a luxury you can not afford in the Premiership. Which is physically and mentally more demanding.

2006-07 Manchester United
2005-06 Chelsea
2004-05 Chelsea
2003-04 Arsenal
2002-03 Manchester United
2001-02 Arsenal
2000-01 Manchester United
1999-00 Manchester United
1998-99 Manchester United
1997-98 Arsenal
1996-97 Manchester United
1995-96 Manchester United
1994-95 Blackburn Rovers
1993-94 Manchester United
1992-93 Manchester United

depressing reading but similar outcome to La Liga.

[sonsofthedesert]

2006-07 Manchester United
2005-06 Chelsea
2004-05 Chelsea
2003-04 Arsenal
2002-03 Manchester United
2001-02 Arsenal
2000-01 Manchester United
1999-00 Manchester United
1998-99 Manchester United
1997-98 Arsenal
1996-97 Manchester United
1995-96 Manchester United
1994-95 Blackburn Rovers
1993-94 Manchester United
1992-93 Manchester United

depressing reading but similar outcome to La Liga.

Worse than La Liga, if you look at it that way 1 team has dominated with 3 others getting a chnace for a short period. At least with La Liga 2 teams dominate.

[Dhav]

Maybe, Maybe not.

I have to admit Capello would have been high up the list had Rafa gone back when he had the falling out. I've always liked O'Neill even if there is a feeling amongst a number of fans that he isn't quite at the level of LFC, but he's done a decent job at Villa despite inheriting a poor squad and not having spent fortunes. He's also got plenty of European experience.

It's worth noting that whilst Mourinho and Ferguson came here having had high profile success they were managers of clubs in comparatively small football nations, not the behemoths of Italy, Spain or Germany even, whilst Wenger won the French league once and came to Arsenal via Japan.

My own view is that we should stick with Rafa until the end of the season but if things continue as they are he will almost certainly be out the door come the Summer, if not before. I can't see him being kept around if we finish this season 4th and without a trophy and, really, nor should he be.

So are you saying you would have sacked Wenger at the end of last season? No trophies since 2005, two successive 4th placed finished, ending up miles behind the champions?

[Red_Polo]

I don't get the validity of this whole points analysis thing. I'm sure anybody on this forum would agree that different approaches work better in different leagues, but as far as I can tell the points totals of their respective champions have nothing to do with it. You could say it's evidence that our league is harder to win (and even that's not a logical conclusion of the points analysis), but in terms of the difference in methodology required it tells us absolutely nothing. The only thing I think it actually proves is that there is a greater difference in the quality of the top and bottom teams in our league than there is in La Liga.

[Dhav]

Heh well you say that but then you have to remove Ferguson from the equation and he alone is the example many, many LFC fans give as why Rafa deserves more seasons and more money.

And if you do that then it comes to my point I mentioned earlier, that the last 8 or so years has proven that if your manager doesn't win the league in his first 3 seasons he never will.

No, it doesn't prove anything, it merely indicates a possible pattern or trend. There is no one who can convince that because the likes of Hector Cuper, Gerard Houllier, Claudio Ranieri etc have not won a top league that Rafa can't either. That is complete nonsense.

[Shanks65]

2006-07 Manchester United
2005-06 Chelsea
2004-05 Chelsea
2003-04 Arsenal
2002-03 Manchester United
2001-02 Arsenal
2000-01 Manchester United
1999-00 Manchester United
1998-99 Manchester United
1997-98 Arsenal
1996-97 Manchester United
1995-96 Manchester United
1994-95 Blackburn Rovers
1993-94 Manchester United
1992-93 Manchester United

depressing reading but similar outcome to La Liga.

****.

What a discusting and depressing thing to look at! I'd rather look up Dunk's ass