Xabi Alonso - the enigma

[Kopite_Colin]

I'd prefer every CM we ever have to be like Souness

[JohnDoe]

It's a lot more simple than you suggest.

If takes a 5-man midfield, or a 4-man midfield with a forward dropping deep to limit Alonso's game.

I won't argue about the actions needed to limit Alonso's game.

However I will argue that it takes no effort at all to limit our game when Mascherano and Gerrard play in the middle, and it takes an effort to limit us when Alonso is on the pitch. That in itself is a good enough argument to play Alonso in the team, because he's actually a threat to the opposition. Gerrard is not a threat to the opposition when he takes on Xabi's role and Mascherano is a non-threat.

The problem is not Alonso. The problem is the players around him. The sum of the threats we pose as a team isn't enough. Gerrard and Torres are great but it isn't enough.

Of course there are compromises involved when a team is set-up to nullify a particular threat but the point is that there are players who have qualities that are impossible or extremely difficult to temper. Alonso is not one of them. And for that reason, I question his value to our team.

By that logic, I question the value to our team of every single player in our squad because not one of them is unstoppable. I'd get rid of all our players bar Gerrard, Torres, Agger and Reina before I even think about Alonso's position in the team. Weak weak argument.

Every playmaker who plays with a side without proper wingers, with always one striker who's incapable of everything and a defence that struggles to bring the ball out of the back, will have a problem playing at his best.

Or can you provide a more convincing argument to explain his long-term loss of form?

What loss of form? You mean his decent start to the season, and him just getting back to the side after an injury?

Why are the expectations from Alonso so high in both defending and attacking yet the same people who bash him, praise Mascherano for doing a job on only one end of the pitch? It's hypocrisy at its best.

[redblood]

It is a good post and it highlights what Alonso can bring to our team, in theory.

But in practice, it doesn't and hasn't worked for a long time, mainly because, as has already been mentioned (ad nauseum), it doesn't take a tactical genius to instruct his players to deny Xabi Alonso the time and space he needs to play his natural game and it doesn't take players of great quality to carry out those instructions.

It's not as easy as you say to close him down that effectively.

He is a talented player and creates space for himself. I think for most of last season himself and Stevie were below par and I believe that was from to much football over the previous summer/season and nothing else.

He started extremely well this season with goals in his first few games then he got injured and hasn't really come back into it since.

[mark1975]

Cheers.

WAS my favourite player...until Torres came along.

I'm a fickle *******.

Seriously though Xabi types are my favourite footballers...Molby & Hoddle spring to mind. It's how I (try to) play the game. I thought Xabi was going to be the new Molby...our Hoddle, if you like, but it's just not happened for him.

My lad reminds me of Xabi. He sits deep in the middle of the pitch, lacks genuine pace and sprays the ball around effortlessly all game.

I wish he had Xabi's bank balance though

[The Erectile Banana]

I think the problem with him is pretty simple, if you close down his passing, he's got little left in his locker.

I heard people saying he would transform our play when he returned. Really? He didn't do it before, so why would he start now? I've been willing him to take games by the scruff of the neck for the past three seasons, he just doesn't seem to be able to go up an extra gear. Gerrard is our best attacking midfielder, while Masher is our best defensive midfielder. Alonso doesn't really have enough impact at either end of the pitch. He doesn't score or assist enough, and he's too often caught in possession in our own half, to be considered an effective enough DM, not to mention his lack of pace. Part of this can maybe be blamed on Benitez, for the adjustments he'd tried to impose on his game, but ultimately he's not proving himself to be useful enough.

He's classy, but his impact for us seems marginal. Not good enough for a title challenger, not in this country anyway. I'd sell while his price is relatively high.

I have to say I agree with Mark's view.

I keep thinking that there is more to come from Xabi but it never seems to happen. There's no doubting his class, but how often in the last two seasons has he had a really influential game for us?

It could be the pace of the Premier League just doesn't suit his talents.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

Cheers.

WAS my favourite player...until Torres came along.

I'm a fickle *******.

Seriously though Xabi types are my favourite footballers...Molby & Hoddle spring to mind. It's how I (try to) play the game. I thought Xabi was going to be the new Molby...our Hoddle, if you like, but it's just not happened for him.

He's not a patch on Molby, and to be fair he isn't that kind of player.

Seriously how many all round midfielders are there these days, players who can create and score but who can also defend, make tackles etc?

We've got one in our captain, but the rest of ours are either good at one thing, average or mediocre at others, just like most in the rest of Europe.

[Shaggy]

My lad reminds me of Xabi. He sits deep in the middle of the pitch, lacks genuine pace and sprays the ball around effortlessly all game.

I wish he had Xabi's bank balance though

I used to have pace so I wasn't a carbon-copy of an Alonso or a Hoddle.

[Helios Creed]

That was an absolutely immense performance and will live long in my memory. Truly outstanding.

Of course Gerrard was sent off that day, and I think a lot of Xabi's exceptional performances have come when Gerrard hasn't played. He assumes more responsibility and seems to thrive on it.

I think he was brought in to replace Gerrard and when it became clear to Rafa that he couldn't sell SG because of his importance to the fans and also because of just how good he was, Xabi started taking a back seat and was given a less dominant role than he had been given initially. Then SG moved back into the centre (having been put on the right to accomodate Xabi) and because you need someone more defensive than Xabi alongside him, first Momo and now Masher are being picked ahead of him.

I can see him leaving - he's too good to be second choice.

[Shaggy]

I think he was brought in to replace Gerrard and when it became clear to Rafa that he couldn't sell SG because of his importance to the fans and also because of just how good he was, Xabi started taking a back seat and was given a less dominant role than he had been given initially. Then SG moved back into the centre (having been put on the right to accomodate Xabi) and because you need someone more defensive than Xabi alongside him, first Momo and now Masher are being picked ahead of him.

I can see him leaving - he's too good to be second choice.

Particularly agree with the bit in bold. We're obviously making educated guesses here but I do think that was the case.

[JohnDoe]

I think he was brought in to replace Gerrard

He was bought after Gerrard committed himself to the club so that doesn't hold any water.

[Shaggy]

He was bought after Gerrard committed himself to the club so that doesn't hold any water.

Was he??

Fair enough then. Perhaps Rafa had identified Xabi as a possible replacement for Gerrard during the whole sordid affair?

[JohnDoe]

I think that's clutching at straws. When Alonso signed he ran the show for us and that had nothing to do with Gerrard playing or not playing. Rafa wanted Alonso regardless of what happened with Gerrard and every time Alonso is on the pitch he's given the keys. It shows Rafa has more faith in him running the show than anyone else and rightfully so.

I think that targeting Alonso as a problem is just madness, sorry but I think it's utter madness and might be a result of over analyzing. When our defence's distribution is atrocious, when we have no movement up front, when we have one striker who scores goals, when we have no quality out wide, to even remotely suggest now that Alonso should be sold or he's not good enough, what the **** is going on?

Alonso is one of the few players in our team the "Big 3" will happily take off our hands and play him in their first teams and he might not be good enough for us? Put him up for sale and all the big clubs in Europe will get in there and try to sign him, are all these clubs out of their minds or just some posters with too much time to moan about the team on an internet forum?

Edit: I am being playful in my last sentence, don't take it personally.

[Charlie_B]

As a team we seriously suffer from a lack of movement, and like someone has already mentioned, Xabi doesn't function very well as a player without movement in front of him. Generally, we're far too static to be competing at the top right now; it was a problem under Houllier that hasn't been rectified.

[paulcooper4]

As a team we seriously suffer from a lack of movement, and like someone has already mentioned, Xabi doesn't function very well as a player without movement in front of him. Generally, we're far too static to be competing at the top right now; it was a problem under Houllier that hasn't been rectified.

put the kettle on love

[stevie_gerrard_8]

I thought we were chasing Essien once Gerrard was set to leave.