Xabi Alonso - the enigma

[Alpha]

You speak as if Xabi is a one-trick pony - who can be 'found out' by anybody with half a football brain.
In that case then - the people of Real Madrid (if the papers are to be believed) would like to spend around £20m on a player of limited ability who hasn't got the intelligence to counter players who are marking him tightly. Nevermind all his caps for Spain either eh? I mean what would the spanish know about football eh?

Please don't come back and quote me with more rafa quotes - tell me what YOU think. We can all research the media if we have the time or the inclincation.

First of all, I always say what I think. If I can use other sources to support my views, then I will and I would invite anybody else, yourself included, to do the same.

Secondly, I wouldn't describe Xabi as a one-trick pony but he is, primarily, a ball-player. And in the pragmatic environment of Premiership football, pragmatic teams have long understood that you can limit the effectiveness of a ball-player by denying him time and space. Isn't it obvious? If there is a more convincing argument as to why Alonso's performance level has dipped so significantly since his first season or two, I have yet to hear it.

Thirdly, assuming Real Madrid are interested in signing Alonso and assuming he would be willing to be seen as betraying his Basque heritage to sign for them, I think it may be beneficial for his career. He grew up playing in Spain and if he is ever to return to the level he played at in his first season or two for us, his best chance may be in his own country, playing the football he is native to. Who knows, he may even earn himself some more Spanish caps too.

That isn't to say I want to sell him. Far from it. He is an excellent footballer. But we have a few of those, some of whom are competing with Xabi for place on the team-sheet.

[Guest]

First of all, I always say what I think. If I can use other sources to support my views, then I will and I would invite anybody else, yourself included, to do the same.

Secondly, I wouldn't describe Xabi as a one-trick pony but he is, primarily, a ball-player. And in the pragmatic environment of Premiership football, pragmatic teams have long understood that you can limit the effectiveness of a ball-player by denying him time and space. Isn't it obvious? If there is a more convincing argument as to why Alonso's performance level has dipped so significantly since his first season or two, I have yet to hear it.

Thirdly, assuming Real Madrid are interested in signing Alonso and assuming he would be willing to be seen as betraying his Basque heritage to sign for them, I think it may be beneficial for his career. He grew up playing in Spain and if he is ever to return to the level he played at in his first season or two for us, his best chance may be in his own country, playing the football he is native to. Who knows, he may even earn himself some more Spanish caps too.

That isn't to say I want to sell him. Far from it. He is an excellent footballer. But we have a few of those, some of whom are competing with Xabi for place on the team-sheet.

Xabi can be compared to Michael Carrick at Man. United. Very good ball player but one who needs time and space on the ball to do damage. As you said, you rarely get that in the Premiership.

I just think he's been trying to play the killer pass too many times, instead on concentrating on playing simple and getting our passing move going. The obvious lack of movement and options upfront certainly hinders his potential though.

I've been watching United play and each time one of their midfielders get the ball, they have an array of options to pick. Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo have to be the best forward line in the world at the moment, and this undoubtedly, makes players such as Carrick and Hargreaves look as world beaters.

[DannyMan2006]

Xabi can be compared to Michael Carrick at Man. United. Very good ball player but one who needs time and space on the ball to do damage. As you said, you rarely get that in the Premiership.

I just think he's been trying to play the killer pass too many times, instead on concentrating on playing simple and getting our passing move going. The obvious lack of movement and options upfront certainly hinders his potential though.

I've been watching United play and each time one of their midfielders get the ball, they have an array of options to pick. Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo have to be the best forward line in the world at the moment, and this undoubtedly, makes players such as Carrick and Hargreaves look as world beaters.

Exactly.

I must say, at the start of the season Xabi looked class, but that was when our team was full of confidence. All of a sudden Xabi got injured, our form dipped and he has come back lacking fitness to a team devoid of movement at present.

I'd give him until the end of the season and see if he can get his form back.

[slimbimjim]

Form is temporary

Class is permanent.

Xabi will be back.

[IanTatt]

If we can get £15 mil + for him, I'd sell him. We have need a couple of wingers, a partner for torres and a left back....

[marcus50bucks]

Let me put this to bed. Masher is a good player. Not great IMO - but good.
My problem is that we're struggling like mad to create and score goals and yet we're looking to lash £17m on a holding midfielder which I believe (for us) isn't the right thing to do. If we had ManU's money or Roman's millions then it may be different but in our present state I think spending that much money on a DM is a mistake. We can all see our deficiences creating and going forward so do you seriously believe spending 17 on Masher and 6 on skrtl is going to help us improve? I don't. And that's my position.
Let me reiterate - I believe Masher is a good player - but it wouldn't break my heart if he went abroad and we spent the money on attacking or creative players. It's not as if we're short in the middle of midfield.

I don't expect many people to agree with me; but it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. Much like you and your Alonso comment come to think of it !!! ha ha. Damn - walked straight into that !!!

You're not alone Howard. As much as I want us to buy Mascherano, I still think spending 17m on a holding midfielder when it is clear as frigging daylight we are very poor in the attacking areas, is not the way to go imo. That is the area we really need to concentrate on improving in the summer and I fear if 17m of our budget goes on Mascherano we won't have much left to buy real quality attacking players unless we sell, but even then we may still struggle.

Regarding Alonso, I've said it before and I will say it again, I don't think he's been the same player since Lampard broke his ankle a couple of years ago. However I still rate him highly and he would be in my first eleven, no question.

[JohnDoe]

How can people expect Alonso to do well when our movement is absolutely atrocious and he can't find one free player to pass the ball to? Of course he'll dwell on the ball and get put under pressure. He has no confidence in our attacking players' ability to take control of the ball and continue the play. Voronin must be the worst striker in the world when it comes to close control, Kuyt isn't much better and you can't expect Torres to do everything on his own when he's constantly marked by the opposition because they know our 2nd striker is ****e.

Our "wingers" also don't stretch the play enough and we always choke in the middle. Gerrard is also **** when it comes to his movement, instead of going forward and providing some space he ends up running back and gets in the way. It's like he's insulted when he doesn't receive the ball first every time we start an attack.

[stevie_gerrard_8]

How can people expect Alonso to do well when our movement is absolutely atrocious and he can't find one free player to pass the ball to? Of course he'll dwell on the ball and get put under pressure. He has no confidence in our attacking players' ability to take control of the ball and continue the play. Voronin must be the worst striker in the world when it comes to close control, Kuyt isn't much better and you can't expect Torres to do everything on his own when he's constantly marked by the opposition because they know our 2nd striker is ****e.

Our "wingers" also don't stretch the play enough and we always choke in the middle. Gerrard is also **** when it comes to his movement, instead of going forward and providing some space he ends up running back and gets in the way. It's like he's insulted when he doesn't receive the ball first every time we start an attack.

Spot on

[ronan]

well said johndoe.
also you dont think coming back from a broken foot twice just might have something to do with him being a bit off form.?

[Pablo]

You have a lot more space to work with in Spain. The pace isn't as high as in the PL. The players get more time to decide what to do with the ball.

Yep, sadly I agree.

He´s just not ideally suited to the Premiership im afraid. I honestly think it would be in his best interests to move back to Spain where he would be able to get the best out of his abilities. His main problem in the Premiership is he just isnt dynamic enough, he gets left behind sometimes, he just isnt quite mobile enough.

If we can get a top fee for him I would sell him to a Madrid or Barcelona, I honestly think that would be the best thing for the lads career. IMO his career has badly stagnated here in the last few years and injuries or otherwise I dont think the Premiership is where he will get the most out of his talents. He could be a legend back in Spain.

Something near 20 million pound would be a great deal for us in my opinion and could be spent for the greater good of the team to bring in a really top class striker or winger, both of which we are in desperate need of. I think he might be gone in the summer and like Luis Garcia, another very likeable character, I will wish him well and follow the rest of his career very closely.

[Eikman]

Let me put this to bed. Masher is a good player. Not great IMO - but good.
My problem is that we're struggling like mad to create and score goals and yet we're looking to lash £17m on a holding midfielder which I believe (for us) isn't the right thing to do. If we had ManU's money or Roman's millions then it may be different but in our present state I think spending that much money on a DM is a mistake. We can all see our deficiences creating and going forward so do you seriously believe spending 17 on Masher and 6 on skrtl is going to help us improve? I don't. And that's my position.
Let me reiterate - I believe Masher is a good player - but it wouldn't break my heart if he went abroad and we spent the money on attacking or creative players. It's not as if we're short in the middle of midfield.

I don't expect many people to agree with me; but it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. Much like you and your Alonso comment come to think of it !!! ha ha. Damn - walked straight into that !!!

hey howard,gotta say i have the same thoughts about mascher as you do,17mill. for him is way off imo,he has the same role as didi had,rarely over the halfway line and never in a scoring position,we need someone who can do both and help gerrard out big time,a name that comes to mind for me could be g.barry from villa,if not him then someone else who can offer something at both ends of the pitch,

[tomasjj]

How can people expect Alonso to do well when our movement is absolutely atrocious and he can't find one free player to pass the ball to? Of course he'll dwell on the ball and get put under pressure. He has no confidence in our attacking players' ability to take control of the ball and continue the play. Voronin must be the worst striker in the world when it comes to close control, Kuyt isn't much better and you can't expect Torres to do everything on his own when he's constantly marked by the opposition because they know our 2nd striker is ****e.

Our "wingers" also don't stretch the play enough and we always choke in the middle. Gerrard is also **** when it comes to his movement, instead of going forward and providing some space he ends up running back and gets in the way. It's like he's insulted when he doesn't receive the ball first every time we start an attack.

[Lecter]

[QUOTE=ShaggyAlonso;886326]

I'm not being wilfully negative for the fricken sake of it. I love Alonso and I'm concerned that we're not getting the best out of him. There's a world class central midfielder in there somewhere but we're not seeing him.



Yep.

Point 3 is so very true. I'd hate to sell him, especially to a team like Barca, because you just know that, in a team with more movement and fluidity, he would really thrive.

For us, he's easy to nullify as people get in his face and, to compound the problem, our movement is often non-existent.

One thing I like about Alonso is that whether hes playing good bad or indifferent he only has to be on the pitch to have an effect on our general play

Look at yesterday when he comes on we instantly get more possession and despite him according to some on here being "slow in possesion" we have more urgency and actually create more attacking opportunities

I think what Alonso does is distract attention from other players. Take Gerrard hes tightly marked by Boateng which leaves Mascherano free but he doesnt have the quality to influence a game higher up the pitch, bringing on Alonso actually gives the opposition another player to worry about which in turn might free up Gerrard

[tomasjj]

[QUOTE=Lecter;887575]

One thing I like about Alonso is that whether hes playing good bad or indifferent he only has to be on the pitch to have an effect on our general play

Look at yesterday when he comes on we instantly get more possession and despite him according to some on here being "slow in possesion" we have more urgency and actually create more attacking opportunities

I think what Alonso does is distract attention from other players. Take Gerrard hes tightly marked by Boateng which leaves Mascherano free but he doesnt have the quality to influence a game higher up the pitch, bringing on Alonso actually gives the opposition another player to worry about which in turn might free up Gerrard

YES!

[thesilverfoxlfc]

He's no longer the same player that came to us first Rafa has changed him from a player that whipped the ball 40 yards with pin point accuracy and got forward to now a player that just strolls the pitch sitting in front of the back 4 laying off short passes

IMO thats what he's become now whether it was Rafa who changed him or thats what the felt was his strength now is to just sit in front of the back 4