Xabi Alonso - the enigma

[Alpha]

I don't understand your logic and certainly not the lines in bold. You are suggesting that Alonso doesn't take risks, that is not true. Maybe because he's a superior passer, he'll find his man more often than not without needing to take a "risk" but he gets the job done effectively when there is movement in front of him. You are also suggesting that having Alonso in the team takes away from our attacking edge. That is grossly unfair.

Think of Torres and Gerrard (and any decent winger we bring in) as the sharp end of a knife. It's a necessity in order to slit your that pesky chicken's throat, but if you don't have a proper handle for that knife you'll just be cutting your own hand. Without Alonso, or any proper passing midfielder in the middle, we're just a sharp end of a knife without a handle. We're just so awkward when Gerrard drops back and tries "to do something" with the ball 60 yards from goal, soon we attempt long balls, because Gerrard just isn't effective there. He's absolutely lethal 20-30 yards from goal, and that's where I want him to get the ball. I want to take the playmaking burden off Gerrard by having a proper passer behind him, so he doesn't need to drop deep and "carry" us. Alonso helps his game immensely.

Alonso is our best passer of the ball in the team and the most consistent in his delivery, both in his short passing and in his longer efforts. With good wingers who stretch the opposition and take attention away from Torres in the centre, having Alonso in the middle of the pitch bossing the game can spell doom to the opposition. The key is movement and having attacking players with better technique and close control who can quickly take advantage of Alonso's vision and isolate themselves with a defender. Attacking is about creating mis-matches, Gerrard against any player is a mis-match, but Gerrard isn't the one to "spot" that mis-match and set it up.

Other than the last 20-25 yards of the pitch, I'd rather have Alonso with the ball than Gerrard in any situation and in any style of play. It's a no brainer. I'd extend this statement to Lucas as well and urge you to watch the last 10 minutes of the Everton game this year.

Mate, to respond to this post would be to repeat what I have already written, more than once in another thread.

I'm not doing it again. Besides, there is so much I disagree with that I don't even know where to start.

All I will say is that teams are at their most dangerous during the transition between defence and attack. And Alonso's game does not promote a quick transition. With Xabi, we play his brand possession football or nothing. It is good when it works but when it doesn't, we are predictable and one-dimensional.

You can make any excuses you like for Alonso's long-term loss of form and all of them may be true. But whether it is his fault or not, it doesn't seem to work anymore and if that means changing the team to suit him or taking him out and trying a different approach, I know which I would choose.

[redblood]

I don't understand your logic and certainly not the lines in bold. You are suggesting that Alonso doesn't take risks, that is not true. Maybe because he's a superior passer, he'll find his man more often than not without needing to take a "risk" but he gets the job done effectively when there is movement in front of him. You are also suggesting that having Alonso in the team takes away from our attacking edge. That is grossly unfair.

Think of Torres and Gerrard (and any decent winger we bring in) as the sharp end of a knife. It's a necessity in order to slit your that pesky chicken's throat, but if you don't have a proper handle for that knife you'll just be cutting your own hand. Without Alonso, or any proper passing midfielder in the middle, we're just a sharp end of a knife without a handle. We're just so awkward when Gerrard drops back and tries "to do something" with the ball 60 yards from goal, soon we attempt long balls, because Gerrard just isn't effective there. He's absolutely lethal 20-30 yards from goal, and that's where I want him to get the ball. I want to take the playmaking burden off Gerrard by having a proper passer behind him, so he doesn't need to drop deep and "carry" us. Alonso helps his game immensely.

Alonso is our best passer of the ball in the team and the most consistent in his delivery, both in his short passing and in his longer efforts. With good wingers who stretch the opposition and take attention away from Torres in the centre, having Alonso in the middle of the pitch bossing the game can spell doom to the opposition. The key is movement and having attacking players with better technique and close control who can quickly take advantage of Alonso's vision and isolate themselves with a defender. Attacking is about creating mis-matches, Gerrard against any player is a mis-match, but Gerrard isn't the one to "spot" that mis-match and set it up.

Other than the last 20-25 yards of the pitch, I'd rather have Alonso with the ball than Gerrard in any situation and in any style of play. It's a no brainer. I'd extend this statement to Lucas as well and urge you to watch the last 10 minutes of the Everton game this year.

Superb post in complete agreement there.

[paulcooper4]

I don't understand your logic and certainly not the lines in bold. You are suggesting that Alonso doesn't take risks, that is not true. Maybe because he's a superior passer, he'll find his man more often than not without needing to take a "risk" but he gets the job done effectively when there is movement in front of him. You are also suggesting that having Alonso in the team takes away from our attacking edge. That is grossly unfair.

Think of Torres and Gerrard (and any decent winger we bring in) as the sharp end of a knife. It's a necessity in order to slit your that pesky chicken's throat, but if you don't have a proper handle for that knife you'll just be cutting your own hand. Without Alonso, or any proper passing midfielder in the middle, we're just a sharp end of a knife without a handle. We're just so awkward when Gerrard drops back and tries "to do something" with the ball 60 yards from goal, soon we attempt long balls, because Gerrard just isn't effective there. He's absolutely lethal 20-30 yards from goal, and that's where I want him to get the ball. I want to take the playmaking burden off Gerrard by having a proper passer behind him, so he doesn't need to drop deep and "carry" us. Alonso helps his game immensely.

Alonso is our best passer of the ball in the team and the most consistent in his delivery, both in his short passing and in his longer efforts. With good wingers who stretch the opposition and take attention away from Torres in the centre, having Alonso in the middle of the pitch bossing the game can spell doom to the opposition. The key is movement and having attacking players with better technique and close control who can quickly take advantage of Alonso's vision and isolate themselves with a defender. Attacking is about creating mis-matches, Gerrard against any player is a mis-match, but Gerrard isn't the one to "spot" that mis-match and set it up.

Other than the last 20-25 yards of the pitch, I'd rather have Alonso with the ball than Gerrard in any situation and in any style of play. It's a no brainer. I'd extend this statement to Lucas as well and urge you to watch the last 10 minutes of the Everton game this year.

[stevie_gerrard_8]

I don't understand your logic and certainly not the lines in bold. You are suggesting that Alonso doesn't take risks, that is not true. Maybe because he's a superior passer, he'll find his man more often than not without needing to take a "risk" but he gets the job done effectively when there is movement in front of him. You are also suggesting that having Alonso in the team takes away from our attacking edge. That is grossly unfair.

Think of Torres and Gerrard (and any decent winger we bring in) as the sharp end of a knife. It's a necessity in order to slit your that pesky chicken's throat, but if you don't have a proper handle for that knife you'll just be cutting your own hand. Without Alonso, or any proper passing midfielder in the middle, we're just a sharp end of a knife without a handle. We're just so awkward when Gerrard drops back and tries "to do something" with the ball 60 yards from goal, soon we attempt long balls, because Gerrard just isn't effective there. He's absolutely lethal 20-30 yards from goal, and that's where I want him to get the ball. I want to take the playmaking burden off Gerrard by having a proper passer behind him, so he doesn't need to drop deep and "carry" us. Alonso helps his game immensely.

Alonso is our best passer of the ball in the team and the most consistent in his delivery, both in his short passing and in his longer efforts. With good wingers who stretch the opposition and take attention away from Torres in the centre, having Alonso in the middle of the pitch bossing the game can spell doom to the opposition. The key is movement and having attacking players with better technique and close control who can quickly take advantage of Alonso's vision and isolate themselves with a defender. Attacking is about creating mis-matches, Gerrard against any player is a mis-match, but Gerrard isn't the one to "spot" that mis-match and set it up.

Other than the last 20-25 yards of the pitch, I'd rather have Alonso with the ball than Gerrard in any situation and in any style of play. It's a no brainer. I'd extend this statement to Lucas as well and urge you to watch the last 10 minutes of the Everton game this year.

Brilliant and I love the analogies. Gerrard is a typical English player. He lacks the finesse and creativity to slip balls through in tight spaces compared to someonele like Fabregas

[Alpha]

Superb post in complete agreement there.

It is a good post and it highlights what Alonso can bring to our team, in theory.

But in practice, it doesn't and hasn't worked for a long time, mainly because, as has already been mentioned (ad nauseum), it doesn't take a tactical genius to instruct his players to deny Xabi Alonso the time and space he needs to play his natural game and it doesn't take players of great quality to carry out those instructions.

[Howard_lfc]

How can people expect Alonso to do well when our movement is absolutely atrocious and he can't find one free player to pass the ball to? Of course he'll dwell on the ball and get put under pressure. He has no confidence in our attacking players' ability to take control of the ball and continue the play. Voronin must be the worst striker in the world when it comes to close control, Kuyt isn't much better and you can't expect Torres to do everything on his own when he's constantly marked by the opposition because they know our 2nd striker is ****e.

Our "wingers" also don't stretch the play enough and we always choke in the middle. Gerrard is also **** when it comes to his movement, instead of going forward and providing some space he ends up running back and gets in the way. It's like he's insulted when he doesn't receive the ball first every time we start an attack.

Good post John Doe.

[mark1975]

I think the problem with him is pretty simple, if you close down his passing, he's got little left in his locker.

I heard people saying he would transform our play when he returned. Really? He didn't do it before, so why would he start now? I've been willing him to take games by the scruff of the neck for the past three seasons, he just doesn't seem to be able to go up an extra gear. Gerrard is our best attacking midfielder, while Masher is our best defensive midfielder. Alonso doesn't really have enough impact at either end of the pitch. He doesn't score or assist enough, and he's too often caught in possession in our own half, to be considered an effective enough DM, not to mention his lack of pace. Part of this can maybe be blamed on Benitez, for the adjustments he'd tried to impose on his game, but ultimately he's not proving himself to be useful enough.

He's classy, but his impact for us seems marginal. Not good enough for a title challenger, not in this country anyway. I'd sell while his price is relatively high.

[Shaggy]

'ello Mark!

[JohnDoe]

It is a good post and it highlights what Alonso can bring to our team, in theory.

But in practice, it doesn't and hasn't worked for a long time, mainly because, as has already been mentioned (ad nauseum), it doesn't take a tactical genius to instruct his players to deny Xabi Alonso the time and space he needs to play his natural game and it doesn't take players of great quality to carry out those instructions.

Denying Alonso the time and space needed to play his natural game means pushing the defence line forward, or you're risking opening up gaps between the four in midfield and the four in defence. Pushing the defence line forward against Torres alone isn't that big a danger, but pushing it when he's got Gerrard eager to kill behind him and two wingers with pace is asking for trouble.

Having wingers without the technique and pace necessary to be effective means the opposition can compress the middle without the need to worry about us causing trouble on the flanks.

The problem is we have too many players who are non threats to the opposition so we don't punish them when they gamble on taking out our "key" players. Playing Voronin and Kuyt means Torres gets more attention so Voronin/Kuyt see more of the ball and guess what, they do absolutely nothing with it. Pennant is a non-goal threat, so is Kewell at his shape today so of course people will see the middle with Alonso and Gerrard as the danger zone. Riise in the line up means the left flank is dead, so we only effectively attack on one side (which gets more attention).

Put Alonso in the manc side and he'll show his ability week in week out. Can you imagine the opposition manager telling his players to press Alonso when they've got Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo in front of him?

[mark1975]

'ello Mark!

Alright matey

[Alpha]

Denying Alonso the time and space needed to play his natural game means pushing the defence line forward, or you're risking opening up gaps between the four in midfield and the four in defence. Pushing the defence line forward against Torres alone isn't that big a danger, but pushing it when he's got Gerrard eager to kill behind him and two wingers with pace is asking for trouble.

Having wingers without the technique and pace necessary to be effective means the opposition can compress the middle without the need to worry about us causing trouble on the flanks.

The problem is we have too many players who are non threats to the opposition so we don't punish them when they gamble on taking out our "key" players. Playing Voronin and Kuyt means Torres gets more attention so Voronin/Kuyt see more of the ball and guess what, they do absolutely nothing with it. Pennant is a non-goal threat, so is Kewell at his shape today so of course people will see the middle with Alonso and Gerrard as the danger zone. Riise in the line up means the left flank is dead, so we only effectively attack on one side (which gets more attention).

Put Alonso in the manc side and he'll show his ability week in week out. Can you imagine the opposition manager telling his players to press Alonso when they've got Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo in front of him?

It's a lot more simple than you suggest.

If takes a 5-man midfield, or a 4-man midfield with a forward dropping deep to limit Alonso's game.

Of course there are compromises involved when a team is set-up to nullify a particular threat but the point is that there are players who have qualities that are impossible or extremely difficult to temper. Alonso is not one of them. And for that reason, I question his value to our team.

Or can you provide a more convincing argument to explain his long-term loss of form?

[mark1975]

It's a lot more simple than you suggest.

If takes a 5-man midfield, or a 4-man midfield with a forward dropping deep to limit Alonso's game.

Of course there are compromises involved when a team is set-up to nullify a particular threat but the point is that there are players who have qualities that are impossible or extremely difficult to temper. Alonso is not one of them. And for that reason, I question his value to our team.

Or can you provide a more convincing argument to explain his long-term loss of form?

Nail on the head there.

Has his game improved since he's been here? Perhaps defensively, but other than that, all he's really shown for me is an obvious lack of a plan B. He just doesn't seem to have enough in his locker, other than good passing ability, but when this becomes limited, his worth to the team is marginal.

[CAD]

Random thoughts:


Alonso. Great passing range. Good vision. Steady hand.

or

Alonso. No pace. zero drive. Prozac player and one trick pony.

Alonso. Shoehorned into a HM. Stopped his development going forward.

or

Alonso. Improved defensively over the last two years.

Alonso. Probably best in a diamond midfield like Chelseas.

[Vermilion]

I'm really concerned about Alonso.

It took him a matter of months to become my favourite player - hence the username - and it appeared we had a Rolls Royce of a midfielder on our hands.

But it's not just not quite happened for him, has it?

If I'm being really honest with myself, I expected so much more. He's been here now for three or four seasons and I don't believe he's developed as much as he ought to have. He should be one of the league's very top midfielders. The fact of the matter is, if you ask a random group of football fans (non LFC) to name their ten best midfielders in the league, precious few, if any, would name Xabi.

Have other teams sussed him out? Given time and space Alonso can kill teams and initially he capitalised on the space afforded to him. Remember the Spurs and Norwich games at Anfield?

That was about as good as it got for Xabi. Sure, there's been plenty of other very good performances (Juventus away springs to mind) but on the whole I'm underwhelmed - and it hurts to say that.

It's too easy to nullify Xabi.

He cuts a frustrated figure at the moment and it's sad to see. In his defence he's just returned from a long-ish lay-off, but let's be honest...he's been miles below-par for too long.

I'm one of his biggest fans but I have to ask - how much longer do we tolerate this sort of under-achievement from one of our most gifted footballers?

An honest opinion, right or wrong it takes something to say it about a favourite player.

[Shaggy]

An honest opinion, right or wrong it takes something to say it about a favourite player.

Cheers.

WAS my favourite player...until Torres came along.

I'm a fickle *******.

Seriously though Xabi types are my favourite footballers...Molby & Hoddle spring to mind. It's how I (try to) play the game. I thought Xabi was going to be the new Molby...our Hoddle, if you like, but it's just not happened for him.