Carragher is overrated

[JohnDoe]

Read the whole post before replying "**** off"

Controversial thread of the day.

Awesome all out defender, fantastic tackler and man marker. Plays out of skin and totally committed to this club. Should be first choice CB like he has been for a good few years and will continue to do so for many years more.

However:

The fact that he's vocal on the pitch doesn't make him the leader of our defence. He has been bellow par since Agger has been out. I'll go as far as saying that he is bellow par when Agger is out. Hyypia has been outshining him on a consistent basis.

He's the worst CB out of the "top 4" clubs in terms of his passing and distribution, I'll go as far as saying that he's clueless at it. It causes us to lose possession more than we should and offering the opposition more chances to attack us. It's similar to the case of have the ability to make a great last ditch tackle but being positionally incompetent so it forces you to make too many of these tackles. Carragher is a great defender when we're under pressure, but he causes us to fall under pressure more often.

Agger is our best CB by far. He's a great defender but he's also the exact opposite of Carragher in terms of his 'attacking' capabilities. He's comfortable on the ball and takes off a lot of pressure from our CM's, offering them the chance to start attacks further forward on the pitch and cutting the gap between the midfield and the front line. When Agger is on the pitch we enjoy longer periods of possession.
Carragher makes the CM drop deeper to "help" him when he's got the ball. Without Agger and when facing a side who sit deep and put 10 men behind the ball, Carragher is a liability to our attacking game.

The reason why Carragher hasn't featured in the England national team as often as he would have liked, is because there are CB's out there who are simply better.

Go on and have a proper go at me now for spouting nonsense and blasphemy

[Joe King]

Hoof!

[bigfooty]

There are some fair points there and Carra has certainly been guilty of the hoof far too many times this season, even with Crouchy not in the team.

That said I think some of our defensive issues have been due to an unusual lack of stability in the full-back areas. Gone are the days of recent seasons when if felt like we had Finnan-Carra-Sami-Riise nearly every game.

As for moving forward, well Xabi isn't there to pick up the ball as much this season due to his injuries and Gerrard being played central. That does cut down his options.

[tomasjj]

Hoof!

It was clear to see last night.

But he has so many other strong points in his game to balance that out.
He needs a ballplayer next to him though.

[RedProf]

Some good points and I made a similar post in the post-match thread. I think Carra needs to make improvements in his passing and in particular, his clearances, which of late I have noticed seem to be punted straight to the opposition in the midfield area, inviting pressure back on us. For me, if he can work on this side of his game, he will develop into an even better CB than he is. Being the pro he is, I am sure he recognises this as well. He is only 30 soon, which is a great age for a defender, so he has time to work on those elements of his game. Perhaps, we notice his shortcomings more when Agger isn't playing as neither Carra or Sami are particularly good in the passing stakes.

Talking about controversial ideas - how about using Sami as 2nd CF in emergency situations when we need a goal. Ok, it smacks of Mourinho, but I think Sami is actually pretty good up there. He'd be a threat from high balls into the box (more so than Crouch) and I think he has good intelligence in using the ball from the forward positions and he isn't bad at finding the goal. I'm not saying put him up top as a new position, more as we're a goal down with 10 mins to go! Controversial!

[pezzzer]

i really dont know where to begin, but your entitled to your opinion

[Shaggy]

Read the whole post before replying "**** off"

Controversial thread of the day.

Awesome all out defender, fantastic tackler and man marker. Plays out of skin and totally committed to this club. Should be first choice CB like he has been for a good few years and will continue to do so for many years more.

However:

The fact that he's vocal on the pitch doesn't make him the leader of our defence. He has been bellow par since Agger has been out. I'll go as far as saying that he is bellow par when Agger is out. Hyypia has been outshining him on a consistent basis.

He's the worst CB out of the "top 4" clubs in terms of his passing and distribution, I'll go as far as saying that he's clueless at it. It causes us to lose possession more than we should and offering the opposition more chances to attack us. It's similar to the case of have the ability to make a great last ditch tackle but being positionally incompetent so it forces you to make too many of these tackles. Carragher is a great defender when we're under pressure, but he causes us to fall under pressure more often.

Agger is our best CB by far. He's a great defender but he's also the exact opposite of Carragher in terms of his 'attacking' capabilities. He's comfortable on the ball and takes off a lot of pressure from our CM's, offering them the chance to start attacks further forward on the pitch and cutting the gap between the midfield and the front line. When Agger is on the pitch we enjoy longer periods of possession.
Carragher makes the CM drop deeper to "help" him when he's got the ball. Without Agger and when facing a side who sit deep and put 10 men behind the ball, Carragher is a liability to our attacking game.

The reason why Carragher hasn't featured in the England national team as often as he would have liked, is because there are CB's out there who are simply better.

Go on and have a proper go at me now for spouting nonsense and blasphemy

It’s certainly a valid talking point.

I don’t think he has any weaknesses if we’re talking purely defensive. I don’t think he’s poor positionally. He reads the game magnificently well, tackles brilliantly and is exceptional on the cover.

I do agree, though, with everything you say about him in possession of the ball. He’s a liability with the ball at his feet.

[Reece]

As an out and out defender Carragher is ****ing brilliant, and thats good enough for me.

But he does need a parter who is more comfortable on the ball, hence why he works so well with Agger. It's when he plays with Hyypia some of the problems you mention come into effect, but i'm not sure that is really Carra's fault.

[Tee]

He is a great defender but distribution and composure are clearly his weaknesses.

[Nicey]

Read the whole post before replying "**** off"

Controversial thread of the day.

Awesome all out defender, fantastic tackler and man marker. Plays out of skin and totally committed to this club. Should be first choice CB like he has been for a good few years and will continue to do so for many years more.

However:

The fact that he's vocal on the pitch doesn't make him the leader of our defence. He has been bellow par since Agger has been out. I'll go as far as saying that he is bellow par when Agger is out. Hyypia has been outshining him on a consistent basis.

He's the worst CB out of the "top 4" clubs in terms of his passing and distribution, I'll go as far as saying that he's clueless at it. It causes us to lose possession more than we should and offering the opposition more chances to attack us. It's similar to the case of have the ability to make a great last ditch tackle but being positionally incompetent so it forces you to make too many of these tackles. Carragher is a great defender when we're under pressure, but he causes us to fall under pressure more often.

Agger is our best CB by far. He's a great defender but he's also the exact opposite of Carragher in terms of his 'attacking' capabilities. He's comfortable on the ball and takes off a lot of pressure from our CM's, offering them the chance to start attacks further forward on the pitch and cutting the gap between the midfield and the front line. When Agger is on the pitch we enjoy longer periods of possession.
Carragher makes the CM drop deeper to "help" him when he's got the ball. Without Agger and when facing a side who sit deep and put 10 men behind the ball, Carragher is a liability to our attacking game.

The reason why Carragher hasn't featured in the England national team as often as he would have liked, is because there are CB's out there who are simply better.

Go on and have a proper go at me now for spouting nonsense and blasphemy

**** off.

[JohnDoe]

I don’t think he’s poor positionally. He reads the game magnificently well, tackles brilliantly and is exceptional on the cover.

I'm not sure if you're saying that I implied that, but just to be clear, this line: "It's similar to the case of have the ability to make a great last ditch tackle but being positionally incompetent so it forces you to make too many of these tackles" is an analogy.

[Nicey]

Read the whole post before replying "**** off"

Controversial thread of the day.

Awesome all out defender, fantastic tackler and man marker. Plays out of skin and totally committed to this club. Should be first choice CB like he has been for a good few years and will continue to do so for many years more.

However:

The fact that he's vocal on the pitch doesn't make him the leader of our defence. He has been bellow par since Agger has been out. I'll go as far as saying that he is bellow par when Agger is out. Hyypia has been outshining him on a consistent basis.

He's the worst CB out of the "top 4" clubs in terms of his passing and distribution, I'll go as far as saying that he's clueless at it. It causes us to lose possession more than we should and offering the opposition more chances to attack us. It's similar to the case of have the ability to make a great last ditch tackle but being positionally incompetent so it forces you to make too many of these tackles. Carragher is a great defender when we're under pressure, but he causes us to fall under pressure more often.

Agger is our best CB by far. He's a great defender but he's also the exact opposite of Carragher in terms of his 'attacking' capabilities. He's comfortable on the ball and takes off a lot of pressure from our CM's, offering them the chance to start attacks further forward on the pitch and cutting the gap between the midfield and the front line. When Agger is on the pitch we enjoy longer periods of possession.
Carragher makes the CM drop deeper to "help" him when he's got the ball. Without Agger and when facing a side who sit deep and put 10 men behind the ball, Carragher is a liability to our attacking game.

The reason why Carragher hasn't featured in the England national team as often as he would have liked, is because there are CB's out there who are simply better.

Go on and have a proper go at me now for spouting nonsense and blasphemy

I know you normally talk sense so I will read this properly later ... however Carra is my favorite player and has been for years, I am guessing we are going to get into to it

[PTP]

It’s certainly a valid talking point.

I don’t think he has any weaknesses if we’re talking purely defensive. I don’t think he’s poor positionally. He reads the game magnificently well, tackles brilliantly and is exceptional on the cover.

I do agree, though, with everything you say about him in possession of the ball. He’s a liability with the ball at his feet.

I love JC - he's class. Tho i admit a good few years ago, whilst you could say he was still finding his feet, and hew was getting played at left back or right back - i didn't think he was good enough. Since moving to the centre he established himself as one of the most consistent defenders in england, maybe europe.

To be fair to JC he has improved his "ball playing" drastically over the last 3 years or so - there was a time when he literally couldn't pass the ball five yards. I think missing agger is more of the problem, hyppia is far more hoof than jc - as a result without agger i'd rather it was JC trying to start from the back than hyppia so as a result JC's so called "lack of playing the ball" ability is emphasised.

That said, the worrying thing is there is probably 5 or 6 players in the squad who are even less skilfull than Carragher and they aren't even Centre backs

[G]

I agree with the general sentiments,he's top drawer when it comes to defending but distribution is poor,badly needs a ball player beside him like Agger.

As an aside,Sami was tremendous last light,winning the ball time and again and then laying a simple ball off to let someone else distribute.the gift that keeps on giving.

[Imy]

Since his rib injury he doesn't seem to be the same, i think he needs a rest as much as Sami does, now with Skrtle signed he may get it.

But agree about his ball playing, with Sami and Carra a deeper midfielder is needed so they can pass the ball directly to him (eg Alonso) who can then turn on the attacks. The problem with this is that the team is then having to compensate for their deficiency.

Watching the Scum bags as well as Arsenal play Ferdinand/Toure/Gallas many a time are right up in midfield which allows the Scholes / Fabregas (or whoever the attacking Midfielder is) to push right up and help the strikers.