Hicks:"I am solidly behind Rafa"

[Dhav]

We keep onhearing that the club will borrow a further £300m to fund the £300m stadium and that the £45m from this loan is for the next 18 months in the transfer window. They have already borrowed £60m for the stadium so I keep wondering if there will be extra in that loan (taking it up to the £300m) for players. Yes I think there will be lean years ahead but I have always expected that but have never been sure how lean. It will be worth it though if in 4-5 years the club has the same/better spending power than utd, the big thing will be keeping close to them/getting closer to them.
The big concern from my point of view is how will they get the second loan if they struggled to get this one.

4-5 lean years is acceptable in the long term if we get the right stadium built and finished. The stadium is absolutely key, but as you beg the question, will they have the resources, the collateral, to arrange the second phase of the loan that will be required to finish it?

I'm guessing they'll try to follow the Arsenal model. May be look to sell naming rights, sponsorships, etc at the same time as arranging the second phase of the loan?

[Craig_H]

Because they say they have faith in him going forwards (which surely means beyond the two years on his contract), but that it is Rafa's commitment that is in question. Unless of course they are lying on both counts.

Why does 'going forwards' mean more than 2 years?

How do you quantify it?

[mersey86]

Solid - good word for old fat head.

[sonsofthedesert]

4-5 lean years is acceptable in the long term if we get the right stadium built and finished. The stadium is absolutely key, but as you beg the question, will they have the resources, the collateral, to arrange the second phase of the loan that will be required to finish it?

I'm guessing they'll try to follow the Arsenal model. May be look to sell naming rights, sponsorships, etc at the same time as arranging the second phase of the loan?

Confident they will do the naming rights etc. Carlsberg shirt deal runs out in 2 years so that will help.
As said the second loan is the big thing I'm not sure about but I keep on thinking that no business man that has earned what they have will not have a plan in place to get that an get it at the right price.

[sonsofthedesert]

Why does 'going forwards' mean more than 2 years?

How do you quantify it?

Going forward in my mind is at the moment and until the fans turn on him OR they think another manager can get them more on the pitch.

[Dhav]

So you think they believe that, in 2005 we finished 5th, in 2004 our 45,000 seater stadium regularly had plenty of empty seats. They don't have to go far back to see that what your saying is wrong and they will know this and will have been told it.

I'm a little confused as to what you are saying, are you saying I am wrong because in 2005 we were selling out even though we finished 5th, while in 2004 we had empty seats even though we finished 4th? Well if that's the case, I'll give you one answer to explain that - Gerard Houllier.

I dont accept what you're saying. They've seen the season ticket waiting list, the way the phone lines go into melt down when tickets go on sale, the fanaticism of the Liverpool fans, and probably taken the view that the stadium will sell out regardless.

[sonsofthedesert]

I'm a little confused as to what you are saying, are you saying I am wrong because in 2005 we were selling out even though we finished 5th, while in 2004 we had empty seats even though we finished 4th? Well if that's the case, I'll give you one answer to explain that - Gerard Houllier.

I dont accept what you're saying. They've seen the season ticket waiting list, the way the phone lines go into melt down when tickets go on sale, the fanaticism of the Liverpool fans, and probably taken the view that the stadium will sell out regardless.

I know but it does go some way to prove it. Also one of your points was we are going to be 4th min in their mind, well 2005 proved that wrong. I believe we have enough fair weather fans to mean that if we were mid table all season there would be empty seats.

[Dhav]

Why does 'going forwards' mean more than 2 years?

How do you quantify it?

Either they have faith in him or they don't. If they do, give him an extension, if they don't sack him. Simple as that.

If they're adopting a wait and see policy then clearly they're not behind him and don't back him to the extent Hicks is talking about.

[Craig_H]

Either they have faith in him or they don't. If they do, give him an extension, if they don't sack him. Simple as that.

If they're adopting a wait and see policy then clearly they're not behind him and don't back him to the extent Hicks is talking about.

That's silly though.

Who knows what might happen? Our current form hardly suggests permanent CL qualification for the next five years, does it?

Why should they tie themselves to a big financial commitment?

Sorry mate, but faith or otherwise, it's just not sensible to go offering 5 year contracts, especially not with the level of performance this season.

A 'wait and see' policy is perfectly fine when he still has 30 months to run.

What if they give him a 5 year contract and in 2 or 3 season's time, we turn into a mediocre mid table club?

[Dhav]

I know but it does go some way to prove it. Also one of your points was we are going to be 4th min in their mind, well 2005 proved that wrong. I believe we have enough fair weather fans to mean that if we were mid table all season there would be empty seats.

I agree that we have enough fair weather fans to leave empty seats if the team is struggling.

Regardless, my point is that they would sooner take the risk of selling a club asset to meet repayments rather than draw on their personal wealth if the club's revenue doesn't cover it, and they'd be willing to let the cards fall as they may. They'd probably see it as a calculated risk worth taking. After all I thought the whole point of a leverage buy out was to not put your own money in?

[Dhav]

That's silly though.

Who knows what might happen? Our current form hardly suggests permanent CL qualification for the next five years, does it?

Why should they tie themselves to a big financial commitment?

Sorry mate, but faith or otherwise, it's just not sensible to go offering 5 year contracts, especially not with the level of performance this season.

A 'wait and see' policy is perfectly fine when he still has 30 months to run.

What if they give him a 5 year contract and in 2 or 3 season's time, we turn into a mediocre mid table club?

If it's "wait and see" though then clearly they don't have the faith in him that they say they do right?

And I'm sure they can negotiate and draft the contract in such a way that will cover their asses if he fails to meet targets and they want to sack him.

[sonsofthedesert]

I agree that we have enough fair weather fans to leave empty seats if the team is struggling.

Regardless, my point is that they would sooner take the risk of selling a club asset to meet repayments rather than draw on their personal wealth if the club's revenue doesn't cover it, and they'd be willing to let the cards fall as they may. They'd probably see it as a calculated risk worth taking. After all I thought the whole point of a leverage buy out was to not put your own money in?

Ask them, they have just had to put in £55m so they are now invested in it personally.

[Dhav]

Ask them, they have just had to put in £55m so they are now invested in it personally.

How do you work that out? Have they personally paid that, or are they personally liable for that?

[sonsofthedesert]

If it's "wait and see" though then clearly they don't have the faith in him that they say they do right?

And I'm sure they can negotiate and draft the contract in such a way that will cover their asses if he fails to meet targets and they want to sack him.

It would show faith as they would be letting his contract run instead of sacking him. I'm not sure a new 5 year contract is right and I back Rafa 100%. If managers should not get to 30 months left on their contract if they are backed how did Wengers get as low as 12 months?

[Fowler_God]

How do you work that out? Have they personally paid that, or are they personally liable for that?

I assume they are liable for it. So when they draw off a dividend they can pay for the club with the clubs money. Hey presto, 1 set of ****ed over fans