Hicks:"I am solidly behind Rafa"

[Johnny]

I really don`t want to click on that link.

We`re not neck deep in the **** just yet IMHO.It may happen but it wouldn`t help the yanks to make a profit.

[AFII]

I really don`t want to click on that link.

We`re not neck deep in the **** just yet IMHO.It may happen but it wouldn`t help the yanks to make a profit.

It's a fact that G&H will need to take another loan next year, £200m+ more debt on the club and that includes the money we will get for selling the name of the new stadium.

Hmmm.....I wonder who will pay the interest on that £200m+ loan?

[sonsofthedesert]

It's a fact that G&H will need to take another loan next year, £200m+ more debt on the club and that includes the money we will get for selling the name of the new stadium.

Hmmm.....I wonder who will pay the interest on that £200m+ loan?

The club and this is fair as it will build the stadium. When Arsenal built theirs did the owners pay the interest on the cost of the stadium or give the stadium to the club, no so why do you expect the club not to have to fund the ground. This was never going to happen in any other way, the most cost effective way of doing something like a stadium is getting loans.

[kurtangle01]

It's a fact that G&H will need to take another loan next year, £200m+ more debt on the club and that includes the money we will get for selling the name of the new stadium.

Hmmm.....I wonder who will pay the interest on that £200m+ loan?

We will because that loan will be for the stadium.

Also, the naming rights will be seperate from any loan, no doubt.

[AFII]

The club and this is fair as it will build the stadium. When Arsenal built theirs did the owners pay the interest on the cost of the stadium or give the stadium to the club, no so why do you expect the club not to have to fund the ground. This was never going to happen in any other way, the most cost effective way of doing something like a stadium is getting loans.

and that make it very difficult for us because we already will have to pay the interest from the first loan.

There is no way that the club can afford that.

The loan for the stadium is the only debt that should be put on the club, not a single pound more.

[Johnny]

Who`s paying the loan on the Emirates?.Did you really expect G+H to take this all on themselves without putting the club into debt??

What did the Glazers do?

It`s common buisness practise.


You`ll keep spinning this whatever way you want because you`ve dug yourself a hole so deep you can`t get out.You`ll with anyone who remotely agrees with you while ignoring all the facts.Your posts are 95% based on what you think/speculate will happen in the future without acctually knowing much about finance.you have said in the past so many things that have not happened,you get pulled on it and answer with a and expect to be treated with credibility.i`m not going to go off on one but i`ll tell you that I scroll past most off your posts these days because youv`e just become a yes man for those with an agenda and someone who has very little credibility left after yrs of quoting Tribull.Please stop responding to my posts as I find you the most subtle wind uo merchant on this site.you`ve pushed me to this reply when i`ve asked you to stop prodding me.i`ve alot more in the tank but don`t want to get a warning from the Mods for abuse.



Stop biting my ankles or I will start ripping your threads to pieces.Which will result in a warning from the Mods(Something your goading me into IMHO)


I answered Alpha not you.

[kurtangle01]

and that make it very difficult for us because we already will have to pay the interest from the first loan.

There is no way that the club can afford that.

The loan for the stadium is the only debt that should be put on the club, not a single pound more.

Officially the only loan on the club will be that of the stadium. The other loans, whilst we might pay the interest, appear to be guaranteed by H&G.

I don't know the ins and outs of this and neither do you so I think it's probably best to wait and see.

[Dhav]

The club and this is fair as it will build the stadium. When Arsenal built theirs did the owners pay the interest on the cost of the stadium or give the stadium to the club, no so why do you expect the club not to have to fund the ground. This was never going to happen in any other way, the most cost effective way of doing something like a stadium is getting loans.

No one is objecting to the club paying for its own stadium. It's irrational to expect it any other way.

But am I right in saying that the club de facto will be making repayments on a £350m loan (even if the full amount of that debt is not on the club's books). Only £60m of that loan goes towards the new stadium so the club then has to drawdown a second tranche to go towards the completing the the stadium, which will probably be £250m. So the total borrowing for the club and its parent company is £600m.

And what happens if the club can't keep up on all the repayments when they fall due? Are G&H going to dip into their own pockets, or will they sell club assets?

I wish their acquisition debt had been kept completely separate. I have no faith in the club being able to make enough money to keep up with all the repayments of both companies, and certainly not in a way in which transfer budgets are not hindered. What concerns me is what do G&H do in circumstances where the club falls short on the repayments?

[Johnny]

and that make it very difficult for us because we already will have to pay the interest from the first loan.

There is no way that the club can afford that.

The loan for the stadium is the only debt that should be put on the club, not a single pound more.

Could you give us the projected costs v`s earnings chart for the next 5 yrs before you argue our future problems????I suspect our owners paid a smart guy to work that out.

[kurtangle01]

Who`s paying the loan on the Emirates?.Did you really expect G+H to take this all on themselves without putting the club into debt??

What did the Glazers do?

It`s common buisness practise.


You`ll keep spinning this whatever way you want because you`ve dug yourself a hole so deep you can`t get out.You`ll with anyone who remotely agrees with you while ignoring all the facts.Your posts are 95% based on what you think/speculate will happen in the future without acctually knowing much about finance.you have said in the past so many things that have not happened,you get pulled on it and answer with a and expect to be treated with credibility.i`m not going to go off on one but i`ll tell you that I scroll past most off your posts these days because youv`e just become a yes man for those with an agenda and someone who has very little credibility left after yrs of quoting Tribull.Please stop responding to my posts as I find you the most subtle wind uo merchant on this site.you`ve pushed me to this reply when i`ve asked you to stop prodding me.i`ve alot more in the tank but don`t want to get a warning from the Mods for abuse.



Stop biting my ankles or I will start ripping your threads to pieces.Which will result in a warning from the Mods(Something your goading me into IMHO)


I answered Alpha not you.

What does credibility matter? It's an internet forum FFS.

[sonsofthedesert]

We will because that loan will be for the stadium.

Also, the naming rights will be seperate from any loan, no doubt.

Think if I remember Arsenal get about £3m a year for naming rights, the rest of the money is for shirt sponsorship, as a whole the deal could have been a lot better if they waited a year before agreeing it. From the press confrence G&H did where they were asked if they would sell the name Gillett said it is something they would look into as if it brought in a top player each year it would be worth it. That statement gave me the impression that they will look for £10m+ a year, it is possible as it would be new anfield and being associated with that could be very good for some companies. It would go a long way to paying the interest on the stadium. Add a new shirt sponsorship in 2 years, the club should be looking at getting £10m a year (presently £5m a year and much less than utd's £14m a year) and all of a sudden without even putting people in the stadium they have half paid the loan each year.
I could go on about this but wont as someone will blow my figures out of the water, it does look like the new stadium and some marketing focus could mean this is all affordable and could mean a bright future after 2011,until then though like Arsenal did we have to be carefull when it comes to players - hence Rafa bringing in all the kids this past summer. If he buys 1 great player a season and brings a couple of kids through, sells the players that aren't good enough we should be competing, come 2012 though big revenue streams will come on line and it should be interesting.

[kurtangle01]

Could you give us the projected costs v`s earnings chart for the next 5 yrs before you argue our future problems????I suspect our owners paid a smart guy to work that out.

In fairness I don't think anyone could give you that never mind a memebr of an internet site.

[sonsofthedesert]

and that make it very difficult for us because we already will have to pay the interest from the first loan.

There is no way that the club can afford that.

The loan for the stadium is the only debt that should be put on the club, not a single pound more.

So the club shuldn't pay for the players? From what I've read (so the same info as you) the only debt on the club is for stadium and FUTURE players. The loan KOP football has is for purchase AND the debt the club had prior to takeover. They have had to put in their own money to the tune of £55m so one more thing we (yes we as in me as well) have complained about is now done.

[AFII]

Could you give us the projected costs v`s earnings chart for the next 5 yrs before you argue our future problems????I suspect our owners paid a smart guy to work that out.

It's a fact that we need another big loan.

Who do you think will pay the interest for the Kop Holding loan? The club will do that so you can add that to the £105m loan that the club will pay interest for. G&H won't pay out of their own pockets for the interest of the Kop Holding loan. If you believe that then you really are deluded.

You can then next year add the loan for the stadium that will also be put against the club.

Then we are up to £500m-£600m. How the hell will the club be able to afford to pay the interest of a loan that big.

£30m-£40m a year in interest to pay. We would need to win the CL every season to be able to pay that. That isn't exactly realistic when you consider the small transfer budget Rafa will have to do with, if he stays. We will get it tough to even qualify for the CL the coming seasons because other clubs will buy more quality players.

[sonsofthedesert]

No one is objecting to the club paying for its own stadium. It's irrational to expect it any other way.

But am I right in saying that the club de facto will be making repayments on a £350m loan (even if the full amount of that debt is not on the club's books). Only £60m of that loan goes towards the new stadium so the club then has to drawdown a second tranche to go towards the completing the the stadium, which will probably be £250m. So the total borrowing for the club and its parent company is £600m.

And what happens if the club can't keep up on all the repayments when they fall due? Are G&H going to dip into their own pockets, or will they sell club assets?

I wish their acquisition debt had been kept completely separate. I have no faith in the club being able to make enough money to keep up with all the repayments of both companies, and certainly not in a way in which transfer budgets are not hindered. What concerns me is what do G&H do in circumstances where the club falls short on the repayments?

Where do you thin the loan they used to purchase the club was - it was owned by KOP football, it hasen't moved so why is it now a problem when 10 months ago it wasn't. If the club has no money to pay dividends the potentially G&H would either have to sell or fund it themselves. Yes they could sell players to pay it but you can't tell me you really think they will do that, what happens if they need the money in March, they can't sell a player so? Also selling players would create an adverse result on the pitch and damage the club due to no CL money and reduced PL money, fans walking away from the ground. They are business men I can not see them ****ing this up in that way, they have more knowledge n this area than us so why do so many on here think they know more. The joke of this is that the 2 people that know most about these situations are Disco and RS4 and they are the guys getting **** at the moment because they are trying to get people to chill and saying it is not as bad as we think.
I will however say I am personnaly interested as to how they will get the next £300m loan, if it has gone down to the wire for this one there should be some concern for the next one.