Rafa Benitez tells Xabi Alonso: Step things up

[Johnny]

If the manager allows a player with a bad attitude to play instead of one that work his socks off every day then he will very soon lose the faith of the rest of the team.

That would send out the completely wrong signals. Rafa should have sold Crouch last summer and I don't know why he didn't do it, maybe Crouch refused to leave, who knows? He wouldn't have been the first player doing that. Finnan and Cisse are two examples.

By your reasoning it is also possible that the team have lost faith in Rafa for Playing a non- scoring Kuyt over a goalscoring/goal threatening Crouch.Rafa should have sold Kuyt last yr.

Maybe Crouch did`nt refuse to leave last season,maybe Rafa kept him because we had no other fantastic strikers apart from Torres.

[Craig_H]

Reminds me of Cisse....

Cisse lacked a footballing brain and wasnt really a team player. He had bags of pace and was fairly strong, two things which Crouch cant say. But he was ultimately too much of an individual to succeed with us.

I dont think the two are comparable.

Having said that, i'd kill to swap Kuyt with Cisse now.

[Johnny]

Reminds me of Cisse....

Cisse`s problem was on the pitch.

[AFII]

Who gives a **** about attitude or pre-season form in fairness? The fact remains that crouch is much more of a goal threat than kuyt and has proven himself to be such this season. Kuyt has been beyond ****e and still gets his game.

Attitude is important granted, but surely the ability to put the ball in the net is of greater concern? If rafa is basing his decisions purely on a players attitude then he is disregarding the fundamental objective of professional football which is to win matches.

I agree 0% to this post

The important thing is to get the players to perform as a team and to be able to do that then you need 11 players on the pitch with a good attitude so it's very much down to that.

Do you see any player at Arsenal or Man U with a bad attitude?

[Dhav]

I dont think you can quantify 'commitment and effort' and i'd challenge any of you lot to prove Crouch had a 'bad attitude' - innocent until proven guilty, i think it is...

The only thing you can accurately measure is output of goals - and he produces on that count. If he was going all Anelka on us and being a complete **** (with evidence of this), i'd say yeah, feck him off. But he's never said a bad word about rafa or the club in the media, he's never whinged, never complained, not that i've seen. He's always sounded level headed, down to earth and says the right things that a professional should say. No signs whatsoever that he has an attitude problem.

As i said, it's an excuse that Rafa used to justify his bizarre opinion that Kuyt should play ahead of Crouch...it has cost us points and which will ultimately end up playing a significant part in him being sacked.

This is not a court of law Syd, this is an internet forum for sensible debate and chat, we deal in conjecture and speculation here as much as we do in facts. I could similarly ask you to prove that his attitude is spot on, but you'd struggle to prove that as much as I'd struggle to prove to you that his attitude has not matched that of previous seasons. I've simply formed an opinion based on what I've seen, the same way you have.

with all due respect, what signs of bad attitude have been visible to the fans are not nearly as relevant as signs of bad attitude that have been exhibited before Rafa.

And as for your bottom paragraph, who is now casting aspersions on one of our own without any proof to back it up? Hmm, innocent until proven guilty indeed.

[Craig_H]

No one is asking for 1,000,000% perfection in attitude, or necessarily 100%, but IMO it is there to see that his output this season (and by output I mean effort, running, commitment on the pitch during games), especially early season, has not matched that of previous seasons, and this is why I argue with you that his goal scoring stats from last season are not strictly relevant.

Crouch's performances have been good, of late, and mostly when coming off the bench. Doesn't disguise his woeful pre-season and early season form. I think you need to make this distinction.

I agree however that currently he should be a first teamer.

But his goal scoring stats THIS season (when he's had a proper run out) have been good too. And if he hasnt really featured properly THIS season, you have to look at last season, it's the most recent and accurate thing to base a judgement on.

As for this 'coming off the bench' thing, i will again remind you that ALL 18 of Crouch's goals in his season as top scorer came when he started. He may well have scored one or two this season when he's come off the bench, but i guarantee you, he scores more (on a pro-rata basis) when he starts.

He should currently be a first teamer and he should've been one about 3 months ago too. He still wont though...

[Johnny]

I agree 0% to this post

The important thing is to get the players to perform as a team and to be able to do that then you need 11 players on the pitch with a good attitude so it's very much down to that.

Do you see any player at Arsenal or Man U with a bad attitude?

Having a great attitude without having technical ability will not win you games.

[Craig_H]

I have this in my signature....


If you think that Rafa will let any player get away with less than that then you are dead wrong. The simple reason to why Rafa prefers or have prefered Kuyt is that he puts in the same level of work on a daily basis, Crouch don't.

Maybe Crouch now have changed or Rafa simply think that he now don't have any other option than to give Crouch a chance, who knows?

By your logic, someone who is ****e, but works the hardest, should play ahead of someone who's actually good and scores goals...

Madness.

[Craig_H]

Poor attitude = questionable character and integrity, which I happen to believe can be detrimental to a team.

Remember Pacino's inspirational dressing room speech in Any Given Sunday?



I'm not saying a player's attitude should be the deciding factor for a manager is considering whether to play that player or not, but I do think it is more important than you suggest

This is just it though, Crouch's attitude (if flawed at all), isnt THAT fecking bad for heaven's sake!

It's the biggest myth surrounding us at the moment that Crouch has 'attitude problems'...it's ludicrous. It's akin to accusing kuyt of being lazy...

[Craig_H]

I think he's stuck with Kuyt for a number of reasons, some of which are quite logical, one of the key ones being how promising the partnership with Torres looked early on. Remember the game v Newcastle, where Kuyt seemed to be the perfect foil for Torres?

Regardless, he has been woeful of late and I sincerely hope Rafa starts with Crouch and Torres on Sunday. Sadly I think he'll probably go with Kuyt

Yeah but that performance at NUFC was ages ago and Kuyt has been woeful for a good while. He should've been dropped in november.

The problem is though, rafa doesnt pick people on form or, to an extent, even ability. It makes a mockery of the notion that players need to play well to earn a recall to the team...

[rage]

some very lame excuses on here, lucas our best left sided midfielder, ffs he's never played there b4 and was **** there last week.

Rafa had ****ed up, he's bought inconsistently, lined up bizarrely and played his favorites that can do no wrong!

Finishing 4th with no european cup this year will not necessarily keep rafa in his job regardless of off the field antics.

[Craig_H]

Maybe Crouch did`nt refuse to leave last season,maybe Rafa kept him because we had no other fantastic strikers apart from Torres.

If the reason that Rafa's got a problem with crouch and refuses to play him when he deserves it, is that Crouch refused to move, then that's utterly disgraceful.

[AFII]

But his goal scoring stats THIS season (when he's had a proper run out) have been good too. And if he hasnt really featured properly THIS season, you have to look at last season, it's the most recent and accurate thing to base a judgement on.

As for this 'coming off the bench' thing, i will again remind you that ALL 18 of Crouch's goals in his season as top scorer came when he started. He may well have scored one or two this season when he's come off the bench, but i guarantee you, he scores more (on a pro-rata basis) when he starts.

He should currently be a first teamer and he should've been one about 3 months ago too. He still wont though...

And why do you think Rafa have played Kuyt instead of Crouch?

Rafa will always do what he think is the best for the team to perform as a team. If a player is better for the team then he will play him if it isn't for anything else than his football ability.

Rafa won't do anything to get him closer to the sack on purpose.

[Craig_H]

This is not a court of law Syd, this is an internet forum for sensible debate and chat, we deal in conjecture and speculation here as much as we do in facts. I could similarly ask you to prove that his attitude is spot on, but you'd struggle to prove that as much as I'd struggle to prove to you that his attitude has not matched that of previous seasons. I've simply formed an opinion based on what I've seen, the same way you have.

with all due respect, what signs of bad attitude have been visible to the fans are not nearly as relevant as signs of bad attitude that have been exhibited before Rafa.

And as for your bottom paragraph, who is now casting aspersions on one of our own without any proof to back it up? Hmm, innocent until proven guilty indeed.

Plenty of players attitudes arent 'spot on' but there IS a middle ground between 'spot on' and a complete bellend who shouldnt play. You must accept that? I'm not saying Crouch is a bastion of all things good, but his attitude is no worse than most of our squad. I'd question Gerrard's before Crouch's, to be honest.

What have you seen that suggests an attitude problem in PC?

[Dhav]

If the reason that Rafa's got a problem with crouch and refuses to play him when he deserves it, is that Crouch refused to move, then that's utterly disgraceful.

Hmm, what if Crouch wasn't in his plans and didn't fit in with the way Rafa wants to set up the team to play? Are you saying he should play Crouch regardless?

We need to consider the possibility that Crouch has scored when he has played because Rafa has considered Crouch to be able to excel in those games when he was selected.