Rafa Benitez tells Xabi Alonso: Step things up

[Craig_H]

In the same way that AFII may be wrong to take an assumption/rumour as gospel, I think you are wrong to dismiss it out of hand. AFII doesn't know for a fact that Crouch's attitude is poor. Likewise you don't know for a fact that his attitude has been spot on.

I think people have drawn their own conclusions about Crouch's attitude from what they've seen: Rafa criticising his attitude, his indifferent form, his workrate and effort which IMO does not match the levels of output of previous seasons; and from this people have the impression that his attitude is not right - not an unreasonable conclusion to arrive at IMO.

Kinell, semantics or what??

Crouch's attitude may not have been one million percent perfection...neither have those of other players. They've still had plenty of playing time...

Say what you like mate, Crouch's performances have generally been good. He should be a 1st teamer.

[Dhav]

League-wise, what are we gonna salvage mate? The 4th spot, which should be ours with our eyes closed?

Or are we going to taste the glory of 'only' being 14 points off the league winners?

I think if, if we finish less than 10 points off top spot then that would be a decent season as that represents real progress from last season and would also largely be in line with my pre-season expectations. It's a hard ask, but at our best I believe it is something would could very conceivably accomplish. Unfortunately I dont think we will, because the attitude of the players seems to be way off.

We can blame Rafa for the current predicament until we're blue in the face, and I dont think he is coming out of this with very much credit at the mo, but he is at the table playing with the hand he's been dealt and with the cards stacked against him. Look at how Mourinho and Jol performed recently when the pressure was on them, speculation surrounded their futures, and the bosses were undermining them. They underperformed as well and results suffered.

And as for these spineless players who call themselves Liverpool players, dont get me started on them.

[Craig_H]

We arent gonna finish within 10 points, i think over 20 is more likely...

And the buck stops with the manager.

[Dhav]

Kinell, semantics or what??

Crouch's attitude may not have been one million percent perfection...neither have those of other players. They've still had plenty of playing time...

Say what you like mate, Crouch's performances have generally been good. He should be a 1st teamer.

No one is asking for 1,000,000% perfection in attitude, or necessarily 100%, but IMO it is there to see that his output this season (and by output I mean effort, running, commitment on the pitch during games), especially early season, has not matched that of previous seasons, and this is why I argue with you that his goal scoring stats from last season are not strictly relevant.

Crouch's performances have been good, of late, and mostly when coming off the bench. Doesn't disguise his woeful pre-season and early season form. I think you need to make this distinction.

I agree however that currently he should be a first teamer.

[Dhav]

We arent gonna finish within 10 points, i think over 20 is more likely...

And the buck stops with the manager.

I agree with you that we are more likely to finish 20 pts off the top rather than 10 pts, and yes, I suppose the bottom line is that the buck does stop with the manager. But that doesn't necessarily mean you should ignore the factors that have worked against him, or indeed ignore what role and responsibility the players have in this.

[Jazzmaster]

Who gives a **** about attitude or pre-season form in fairness? The fact remains that crouch is much more of a goal threat than kuyt and has proven himself to be such this season. Kuyt has been beyond ****e and still gets his game.

Attitude is important granted, but surely the ability to put the ball in the net is of greater concern? If rafa is basing his decisions purely on a players attitude then he is disregarding the fundamental objective of professional football which is to win matches.

[AFII]

As I suspected, your conclusion was based on pure speculation after watching a couple of pre-season games.

Crouch hasn't played much this season for on simple reason, Rafa prefers Kuyt up front.

I have this in my signature....

According to Benitez it's important not simply to go out to win but to go out prepared to win, which means players have to put in the same level of work on a daily basis. Anything else is unacceptable.

If you think that Rafa will let any player get away with less than that then you are dead wrong. The simple reason to why Rafa prefers or have prefered Kuyt is that he puts in the same level of work on a daily basis, Crouch don't.

Maybe Crouch now have changed or Rafa simply think that he now don't have any other option than to give Crouch a chance, who knows?

[Dhav]

Who gives a **** about attitude or pre-season form in fairness? The fact remains that crouch is much more of a goal threat than kuyt and has proven himself to be such this season. Kuyt has been beyond ****e and still gets his game.

Attitude is important granted, but surely the ability to put the ball in the net is of greater concern? If rafa is basing his decisions purely on a players attitude then he is disregarding the fundamental objective of professional football which is to win matches.

Poor attitude = questionable character and integrity, which I happen to believe can be detrimental to a team.

Remember Pacino's inspirational dressing room speech in Any Given Sunday?

You gotta look at the guy next to you.
Look into his eyes.
Now I think you are going to see a guy who will go that inch with you.
You are going to see a guy
who will sacrifice himself for this team
because he knows when it comes down to it,
you are gonna do the same thing for him.

That’s a team, gentlemen

I'm not saying a player's attitude should be the deciding factor for a manager is considering whether to play that player or not, but I do think it is more important than you suggest

[Johnny]

Rafa`s decision to stick with Kuyt this season could be his undoing.

[AFII]

Who gives a **** about attitude or pre-season form in fairness? The fact remains that crouch is much more of a goal threat than kuyt and has proven himself to be such this season. Kuyt has been beyond ****e and still gets his game.

Attitude is important granted, but surely the ability to put the ball in the net is of greater concern? If rafa is basing his decisions purely on a players attitude then he is disregarding the fundamental objective of professional football which is to win matches.

If the manager allows a player with a bad attitude to play instead of one that work his socks off every day then he will very soon lose the faith of the rest of the team.

That would send out the completely wrong signals. Rafa should have sold Crouch last summer and I don't know why he didn't do it, maybe Crouch refused to leave, who knows? He wouldn't have been the first player doing that. Finnan and Cisse are two examples.

[Dhav]

Rafa`s decision to stick with Kuyt this season could be his undoing.

I think he's stuck with Kuyt for a number of reasons, some of which are quite logical, one of the key ones being how promising the partnership with Torres looked early on. Remember the game v Newcastle, where Kuyt seemed to be the perfect foil for Torres?

Regardless, he has been woeful of late and I sincerely hope Rafa starts with Crouch and Torres on Sunday. Sadly I think he'll probably go with Kuyt

[Craig_H]

No one is asking for 1,000,000% perfection in attitude, or necessarily 100%, but IMO it is there to see that his output this season (and by output I mean effort, running, commitment on the pitch during games), especially early season, has not matched that of previous seasons, and this is why I argue with you that his goal scoring stats from last season are not strictly relevant.

Crouch's performances have been good, of late, and mostly when coming off the bench. Doesn't disguise his woeful pre-season and early season form. I think you need to make this distinction.

I agree however that currently he should be a first teamer.

I dont think you can quantify 'commitment and effort' and i'd challenge any of you lot to prove Crouch had a 'bad attitude' - innocent until proven guilty, i think it is...

The only thing you can accurately measure is output of goals - and he produces on that count. If he was going all Anelka on us and being a complete **** (with evidence of this), i'd say yeah, feck him off. But he's never said a bad word about rafa or the club in the media, he's never whinged, never complained, not that i've seen. He's always sounded level headed, down to earth and says the right things that a professional should say. No signs whatsoever that he has an attitude problem.

As i said, it's an excuse that Rafa used to justify his bizarre opinion that Kuyt should play ahead of Crouch...it has cost us points and which will ultimately end up playing a significant part in him being sacked.

[Craig_H]

I agree with you that we are more likely to finish 20 pts off the top rather than 10 pts, and yes, I suppose the bottom line is that the buck does stop with the manager. But that doesn't necessarily mean you should ignore the factors that have worked against him, or indeed ignore what role and responsibility the players have in this.

The factors that have worked against him are there and i'm not dismissing them.

He's stupidly chosen to make things even harder for himself though, with a string of random-seeming, bizarre and ultimately stupid decisions, which has cost us points, and will cost him his job.

[AFII]

But he's never said a bad word about rafa or the club in the media, he's never whinged, never complained, not that i've seen. He's always sounded level headed, down to earth and says the right things that a professional should say. No signs whatsoever that he has an attitude problem.

Reminds me of Cisse....

[Craig_H]

Who gives a **** about attitude or pre-season form in fairness? The fact remains that crouch is much more of a goal threat than kuyt and has proven himself to be such this season. Kuyt has been beyond ****e and still gets his game.

Attitude is important granted, but surely the ability to put the ball in the net is of greater concern? If rafa is basing his decisions purely on a players attitude then he is disregarding the fundamental objective of professional football which is to win matches.

Couldnt have put it better myself.

Rafa loses sight of the obvious and basic stuff and his Kuyt obsession is an example of this...another is how he takes the whole 'science' part too far with his random tinkering and '7 changes per game' philosophy. The priority is to win and you usually have a far greater chance of doing that when you pick your best, most effective players. Crouch is this. Kuyt isnt.