Question for those who dont want rafa gone...

[Red Chilli]

No it isn't.

Feck off, yes it is

We have not spent much more than Everton the last three years, net. We have spent more but not much more than them.

The difference is also that Moyes could sign players whitout the pressure of getting to the CL every season to be able to get any money to sign players.

He would still get money to sign players for if the they missed out on the CL, Rafa wouldn't have got that.

delusional

[Craig_H]

19 points equates to 6 wins and a draw. how many games have we drawn this season that we should have won - going by shots on goal for us compared to the opposition? probably all of them. give us another couple of decent strikers who dont need 10 attempts a game to get one on target (a la crouch) or who hit the corner flag rather than the goal (a la kyut) and we could have won all of theses drawn games.

Mate, 'shoulds' dont work. Every team has a number of games they 'should' have won but didnt. It's the difference between what 'should' happen on paper, who teams 'should' beat and who they actually do.

It's also what separates annual title challengers like United, from consistent also-rans like us.

[El Jefecito]

I dont get that point about building the squad over the 1st team mate.

The way i see it is you build up the 1st team first. If you get injuries, you'll have to play weaker players. But by signing weak players for £6m as squad fillers, he'll be playing weaker players ANYWAY - by definition of the fact that they're squad fillers rather than 1st teamers.

If you build up the 1st team and happen to get lucky with injuries (like United last season), you're sorted. If you get injuries, then sure, you'll have to use poorer players. But the £6m squad fillers are poorer players anyway.

May as well not have spent the money on them and use youngsters/free signings as your squad fillers.

I say you build a top class first team before worrying about the squad. But with rafa being rafa, and being obsessed with 'using all the players in the squad' (AKA rotating), he obviously decided that having lots of average squad members was more important than having a few top class first teamers. As someone alluded to earlier, it's less worthwhile for him to have top class 1st teamers as he wouldnt play them every week anyway.

THat's the way you would do it. All I said is that Rafa prioritized, for good or bad, the squad higher than the first team. I don't think you can disagree with that. Can you?

[AFII]

I dont get that point about building the squad over the 1st team mate.

The way i see it is you build up the 1st team first. If you get injuries, you'll have to play weaker players. But by signing weak players for £6m as squad fillers, he'll be playing weaker players ANYWAY - by definition of the fact that they're squad fillers rather than 1st teamers.

If you build up the 1st team and happen to get lucky with injuries (like United last season), you're sorted. If you get injuries, then sure, you'll have to use poorer players. But the £6m squad fillers are poorer players anyway.

May as well not have spent the money on them and use youngsters/free signings as your squad fillers.

I say you build a top class first team before worrying about the squad. But with rafa being rafa, and being obsessed with 'using all the players in the squad' (AKA rotating), he obviously decided that having lots of average squad members was more important than having a few top class first teamers. As someone alluded to earlier, it's less worthwhile for him to have top class 1st teamers as he wouldnt play them every week anyway.

Rafa had to build up the Academy with some of his transfer budget so he couldn't give any youngsters a chance the first years because we had a **** Academy that Houllier totally ignored. So using youngsters as squad fillers just wasn't an option at all.

Rafa also had to secure CL football every season to get any money at all to spend. That means that he couldn't gamble and sign one big star instead of three squad players. He had to build a squad first to secure our long term future.

[El Jefecito]

Rafa had to build up the Academy with some of his transfer budget so he couldn't give any youngsters a chance the first years because we had a **** Academy that Houllier totally ignored. So using youngsters as squad fillers just wasn't an option at all.

Rafa also had to secure CL football every season to get any money at all to spend. That means that he couldn't gamble and sign one big star instead of three squad players. He had to build a squad first to secure our long term future.

[Red_hot]

It was funny when Chris said it...

You just do what most girls do, and remove any potential humour from an otherwise witty quip

Aye and you do what most fellas do and talk out your arsehole! :bird:

[Craig_H]

you haven't answered my question....

.

I think we differ in our interpretations of 'turning on rafa'...

I dont think expressing an honest opinion that he wont get us challenging for the title is 'turning on' him.

I also dont think that wanting a manager who i think WILL turn us into proper challengers (and ultimately, champions) is 'turning on' rafa either.

I agree with the logic that sacking him part-way through the season goes against the rational rhetoric that one would usually adopt, but simultaneously, i also fear that under his leadership between now and the end of the season, we'll fail to get 4th place.

So i'm torn on that specific one, in respect of whether he should go now or not. I'd probably just about fall on the side of him remaining for the duration of this campaign, but it's a close call.

[Craig_H]

I really don't know how any Liverpool supporter can even think that....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAI5x4BBD6o

....he would be allowed anywhere near our club. That's just shocking.

He destroyed a refs career just to get an advantage in a game and didn't care about it at all.

Maybe something to think about DJS before you mention his name again in connection to us. Winning isn't everything you know.

Like i said before, it's not a contest to see who is the nicest person.

As has been quoted many times, Liverpool Football Club exists to win trophies. The essence of this club is geared towards winning. So, in a manner of speaking, you could argue that winning is more or less everything.

But each to their own.

[the rev leeroy brown]

Mate, 'shoulds' dont work. Every team has a number of games they 'should' have won but didnt. It's the difference between what 'should' happen on paper, who teams 'should' beat and who they actually do.

It's also what separates annual title challengers like United, from consistent also-rans like us.

i think 'should's' do count here though. my point was that we 'should' have won these games due to the countless chances we have created in them...not on paper but during the game we should have won. put adebayor in our team on these drawn games and we would have won them.

[Craig_H]

I reckon DJS fancies him. Certainly would explain a lot.

You're becoming more and more obsessed with having little pot shots at me, more so than actually discussing the topic. Whilst this is something i'm no stranger to, i actually regard you as a very intelligent poster, despite the differences of opinion we have and in light of this, it's somewhat disappointing that the focus of your posts are now more about getting little digs in at me, than anything else.

[El Jefecito]

I think we differ in our interpretations of 'turning on rafa'...

I dont think expressing an honest opinion that he wont get us challenging for the title is 'turning on' him.

I also dont think that wanting a manager who i think WILL turn us into proper challengers (and ultimately, champions) is 'turning on' rafa either.

I agree with the logic that sacking him part-way through the season goes against the rational rhetoric that one would usually adopt, but simultaneously, i also fear that under his leadership between now and the end of the season, we'll fail to get 4th place.

So i'm torn on that specific one, in respect of whether he should go now or not. I'd probably just about fall on the side of him remaining for the duration of this campaign, but it's a close call.

BUt you still seem to be basing your opinion that the root of all evil is Rafa rather than the multitude of reasons that you and I identified earlier. Does you answer change as a result of the consideration of all of those items?

[AFII]

Feck off, yes it is




delusional

Yakubu, Johnson, Cahill, Arteta, Lescott, Baines, Van der Meyde in the last years.

Probably around £40m net spent the last three years. They have not really sold anyone of note the last years. Rafa have not spent that much more net during the same time.

[Craig_H]

No it isn't. We have not spent much more than Everton the last three years, net. We have spent more but not much more than them.

The difference is also that Moyes could sign players whitout the pressure of getting to the CL every season to be able to get any money to sign players.

He would still get money to sign players for if the they missed out on the CL, Rafa wouldn't have got that.

You seem to be genuinely suggesting that our level is close to everton's. Correct me if i'm wrong, but that's what i take out of your post.

If that's the case, then we're on different planets in our views on LFC/EFC and the respective levels each is at...and consequently, there's little to be gained from actually exchanging those views.

[Dhav]

You're becoming more and more obsessed with having little pot shots at me, more so than actually discussing the topic. Whilst this is something i'm no stranger to, i actually regard you as a very intelligent poster, despite the differences of opinion we have and in light of this, it's somewhat disappointing that the focus of your posts are now more about getting little digs in at me, than anything else.

Sorry mate, just you seemed to have a hard-on for Mourinho and I couldn't resist the jibe. Very childish of me, I accept that and retract it

[Craig_H]

I know I have contributed to it but I think we now need to get this thread off the DJS subject. The discussion should not centre around the poster but the points made.

Almost read my mind