Question for those who dont want rafa gone...

[Craig_H]

Dhavlos be sensible? He's one of the most measured posters on here. You keep saying people are "completely absolving" Rafa. You have made that up. So many people have entered this thread and said, yes, we're pro Rafa, but we do put some of the responsibility on him.

Yet you continue to divide with your "it's all his fault" or "you're completely absolving him", get Mourinho in agenda. You then back that up with a denial you have a pro Mourinho agenda.

You're the one who needs to be sensible.

I dont see where people have highlighted something and actually said it's rafa's fault. Not you, nor other posters. The most they've done, is casually suggest that he may not be perfect.

Provide me with some quotes where you've actually pin-pointed a problem and said it's his fault - and if i'm wrong, i'll happily hold up my hand, acknowledge that i'm wrong and make an apology.

There's no logic in the notion that i'm 'pro mourinho' and have an 'anti rafa' agenda. It's frankly ludicrous. If that were the case, i'd happily confirm it.

[Robster007]

I dont see where people have highlighted something and actually said it's rafa's fault. Not you, nor other posters. The most they've done, is casually suggest that he may not be perfect.

Provide me with some quotes where you've actually pin-pointed a problem and said it's his fault - and if i'm wrong, i'll happily hold up my hand, acknowledge that i'm wrong and make an apology.

There's no logic in the notion that i'm 'pro mourinho' and have an 'anti rafa' agenda. It's frankly ludicrous. If that were the case, i'd happily confirm it.

Black is white...........

[Craig_H]

Makes no sense robster...

I dont see why you get all defensive and in plenty of cases, abusive. We're all LFC fans and we all want the best for the club, but have different ideas on how that's achievable.

Plenty disagree with me, but in many case, there's still scope to discuss it without being abusive and petty. I dont see why it shouldnt be the case when discussing it with you too.

[The Glove]

What a load of pish and arse water. This post is loaded with your own agenda.

Of course Rafa has to take responsability for the way things have turned out this season. I don't think you will find a single sensible fan who would argue that Rafa is blameless.

These types of post really piss me off, you put forward a bunch of loaded questions and stats, hoping that other people will do your dirty work for you in further stoking the fires of discontent currently associated with this club.

What good do posts like yours do? Will it help motivate the fans to support the team so that we can beat Inter this week? Don't underestimate the influence the fans can have - our great European nights have taught us this.


At this moment in time, we need everybody - manager, players and fans to rise above this, show the world what they are made of and try and salvage something from this season.

Whether Rafa should stay or go should be decided at the end of the season and is something that should be discussed then - at the end of the season.

Can't you see that your type of post can only damage the club further at during this extremely delicate and decisive period?

PS - Were you the fan who left Istanbul at half time?

What's my 'agenda' ?

And the answer is....

Anti-Rafa, pro Mourinho, and it's hardly a recent one.

Let's face it, your original post was loaded. It seems you're the only one who can't see it. Either that or you're just trying to convince us it wasn't.

Dhavlos mate, be sensible for a minute...

Why would i be 'anti rafa' ? Why would i be 'pro Mourinho' ? I like rafa, i'm very fond of him. I have no feelings towards Mourinho, be they positive or negative.

My agenda is simply that i want LFC to achieve what LFC is capable of achieving and i want the manager who's most likely to bring that about.

Suggestions that i'm 'anti rafa' are bizarre and childish at best, whilst containing no substance or sense of logic.

Loaded with what? I see the same people finding excuse after excuse, and completely absolving Rafa of blame for anything and it still baffles me.

You want Rafa sacked. You cant really get more 'anti Rafa' than that. You want Jose in.

If you're pro LFC, then support the club. The manager is part of the club is he not?

If you being labelled 'Anti-Rafa' is childish, wht is labelling people 'RCDNW'?

We are approaching an absolutely massive game and you are sticking the boot in. Sometimes I honestly think you want us to fail so you can come on and say how right you are and how wrong everyone else is.

This season, mainly, has been **** and there are many many reasons for it. To single out Rafa for the lashing is not fair. Of course Rafa has got things wrong, he isnt a machine. Every manager gets things wrong, do you honestly believe that if Klinsmann, Jose or Barry Fry were in charge they would get everything sopt on all the time? Would they ****.

Rafa can get this right but I think too much has gone on for that to happen. Tes the team he has now is nearly all his own work but some of them, for whatever reason, are not up to standard. Unlike Houllier, if a player isnt right for us Rafa ****s them off. I know you will go on about Rafa having spent £150 mil or whatever but he has not had that to spend in one go, its been dribs and drabs over 4 years plus having to sell to buy. Its not like at United were last summer they spunked millions on players who, half of them dont even get a regular game. We are not going to be able to compete with that no matter who is in charge.

[Craig_H]

You want Rafa sacked. You cant really get more 'anti Rafa' than that. You want Jose in.

If you're pro LFC, then support the club. The manager is part of the club is he not?

If you being labelled 'Anti-Rafa' is childish, wht is labelling people 'RCDNW'?

We are approaching an absolutely massive game and you are sticking the boot in. Sometimes I honestly think you want us to fail so you can come on and say how right you are and how wrong everyone else is.

This season, mainly, has been **** and there are many many reasons for it. To single out Rafa for the lashing is not fair. Of course Rafa has got things wrong, he isnt a machine. Every manager gets things wrong, do you honestly believe that if Klinsmann, Jose or Barry Fry were in charge they would get everything sopt on all the time? Would they ****.

Rafa can get this right but I think too much has gone on for that to happen. Tes the team he has now is nearly all his own work but some of them, for whatever reason, are not up to standard. Unlike Houllier, if a player isnt right for us Rafa ****s them off. I know you will go on about Rafa having spent £150 mil or whatever but he has not had that to spend in one go, its been dribs and drabs over 4 years plus having to sell to buy. Its not like at United were last summer they spunked millions on players who, half of them dont even get a regular game. We are not going to be able to compete with that no matter who is in charge.

I want LFC to succeed and (with evidence to support my view) i feel rafa isnt going to make that happen. Also with evidence, i feel Mourinho would do.

I'm pro LFC, not 'anti' Rafa. If you felt that Rafa was doing more harm than good (i know you dont, but if you did) would you want him to continue doing damage? No chance mate.

I'm not asking him to get 'everything right', that's silly. But it's getting to the point where he gets more wrong that right. That isnt good enough, not IMO.

I know we're at a financial disadvantage (for the record, the difference in spending between us and United in the PL era is about £10m, if i recall correctly, so that answers the money issue to a point), but the fact is that it's not simply a case of us lagging behind United. Arsenal havent spent like United or Chelsea, but look at them. And aside from that too, i'm not saying we should be top of the table.

But we SHOULD be capable of finishing 4th without much trouble and we SHOULD be beating the Lutons, Havants and Barnsleys of this world with our eyes closed. I cant see what part of that you'd disagree with.

[tomasjj]

What's my 'agenda' ?

Well if it's on Wiki it must be true:

I read this on the Jose page there.


Post Chelsea

After leaving Chelsea, Mourinho was in the running to be next England manager. Mourinho rejected the offer and the job was given to Fabio Capello. He is currently unemployed. He was linked to Liverpool by his number one fan. A obese Londoner with health problems known as DJS. Jose was recently involved in a bit of a scandal when it was revealed he was having an affair with a notorious muscle-feeler in Liverpool called Purple Aki. He is as popular with Liverpool fans as a fart in a lift. A leading member of Liverpool Football Clubs board room was asked if Jose would be joining Liverpool. His reply was "smell it, he`s a beaut. Not as long as i`ve got a hole in me arse. Now do one lid cos i`m goin for a bevvy".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%...o#Post_Chelsea


Seems someone has been changing it now...

[Craig_H]

[marcus50bucks]

Well if it's on Wiki it must be true:

I read this on the Jose page there.


Post Chelsea

After leaving Chelsea, Mourinho was in the running to be next England manager. Mourinho rejected the offer and the job was given to Fabio Capello. He is currently unemployed. He was linked to Liverpool by his number one fan. A obese Londoner with health problems known as DJS. Jose was recently involved in a bit of a scandal when it was revealed he was having an affair with a notorious muscle-feeler in Liverpool called Purple Aki. He is as popular with Liverpool fans as a fart in a lift. A leading member of Liverpool Football Clubs board room was asked if Jose would be joining Liverpool. His reply was "smell it, he`s a beaut. Not as long as i`ve got a hole in me arse. Now do one lid cos i`m goin for a bevvy".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%...o#Post_Chelsea


Seems someone has been changing it now...

at DJS

[tomasjj]

Fair dos for taking it in good spirits.


not my work I hasten to add

[The Glove]

I want LFC to succeed and (with evidence to support my view) i feel rafa isnt going to make that happen. Also with evidence, i feel Mourinho would do.

I'm pro LFC, not 'anti' Rafa. If you felt that Rafa was doing more harm than good (i know you dont, but if you did) would you want him to continue doing damage? No chance mate.

I'm not asking him to get 'everything right', that's silly. But it's getting to the point where he gets more wrong that right. That isnt good enough, not IMO.

I know we're at a financial disadvantage (for the record, the difference in spending between us and United in the PL era is about £10m, if i recall correctly, so that answers the money issue to a point), but the fact is that it's not simply a case of us lagging behind United. Arsenal havent spent like United or Chelsea, but look at them. And aside from that too, i'm not saying we should be top of the table.

But we SHOULD be capable of finishing 4th without much trouble and we SHOULD be beating the Lutons, Havants and Barnsleys of this world with our eyes closed. I cant see what part of that you'd disagree with.

And Arsenal are reaping the rewards of a big stadium bringing lots of cash and a youth set up which has taken years to get together. Hopefully, all the youth Rafa has brought in will come good in a year or three but if Rafa is gone, we'll never know. Arsenal have done nothing in the league for the last few years. Infact we have done better, yet they have persisted so why shouldnt we? If we chop and change all the time, we'll get no where slowly.

I agree totally that we should be beating teams like that, no one would argue against it but the team that went out there yesterday SHOULD have beaten them. They all need to take some blame, not just Rafa.

[Slinky Skills]

What a load of pish and arse water. This post is loaded with your own agenda.

Of course Rafa has to take responsability for the way things have turned out this season. I don't think you will find a single sensible fan who would argue that Rafa is blameless.

These types of post really piss me off, you put forward a bunch of loaded questions and stats, hoping that other people will do your dirty work for you in further stoking the fires of discontent currently associated with this club.

What good do posts like yours do? Will it help motivate the fans to support the team so that we can beat Inter this week? Don't underestimate the influence the fans can have - our great European nights have taught us this.


At this moment in time, we need everybody - manager, players and fans to rise above this, show the world what they are made of and try and salvage something from this season.

Whether Rafa should stay or go should be decided at the end of the season and is something that should be discussed then - at the end of the season.

Can't you see that your type of post can only damage the club further at during this extremely delicate and decisive period?

PS - Were you the fan who left Istanbul at half time?

[Joe King]

Even though Mourinho isn't what Liverpool stand for, the tradition and all that bollocks, the man is a winner. He gets results. He might have had a vast amount of money at Chelsea to win the title but why wouldn't you if you were a manager of a club with a bottomless pit? The guy won everything in England and in Portugal. Look at what he achieved at Porto with **** all money.

I am no hater of Rafa Benitez but I just feel he doesn't know how to win the title in England. He is stuck with his stubborn ideas and is unwilling to change them. The man can bring success and has done so far, to which I thank him but until he changes his attitude to the English game then he won't win the title. We are further away than ever before to winning the title under Benitez after four seasons. That is not progression. The calls for Benitez to be sacked wouldn't be ringing if the club was seriously challenging for the title, and I mean going to April or May and losing out. Seriously, our title hopes were lost against Reading. We had drawn far too many games and failed to beat any of the top three.

Many blame the players and yes they should shoulder the blame but a lot of the flack must be on the manager. He is the one who bought in these players, who sees them in training, who decides to play them in certain roles. It is now up to Benitez to win the Champions League to save his job, for another year at least.

[fowlen]

I think many of the posts in this thread are pretty poorly thought out and answered FFS.

Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to it. Every one of us has an 'image' of what's best for LFC, but we may have a different methodology of achieving this 'image'.

Labelling DJS anti Rafa and pro Mourinho is absurd.

Personally I have been very unimpressed and dispondent with Rafa for some months now --- I think he is a great bloke and I'll always respect him as a manager and man, but I believe he has lost the ability to motivate the players and steer us in the right direction, and I believe that Rotation is a key issue. How can you go into a pep or half time talk telling the players that they are good enough to get the result or to come back, and then a couple days later decide that half of them are not good enough to play the following week. If I were a player in the middle of 'his system' I'd be fed up by now.......

Unfortunately Rafa's biggest problem is his stubborness, and he is not willing to listen to others. He is determined to do things his way even if there are problems and it is not working - he will not change.

If you look at the top teams in the world with large squads, they probably rotate in a total season as much as Rafa does in a couple of weeks --- the squads are therefore settled, the players know how to play with eachother and the most important players in those teams tend to play week in week out.

I also think someone with the ego and arrogance of Mourinho would be great for the club. I hate the bloke as a man, but have huge respect for him as a manager. He takes no nonsense and is able to motivate through his arrogance. He truelly believes that he is the best in the world at what he does, and that attitude would transfer to the players building confidence and morale. As much as I love the liverpool ethos of having 'nice' managers, I'd gladly take Mourninho today!

[Craig_H]

And Arsenal are reaping the rewards of a big stadium bringing lots of cash and a youth set up which has taken years to get together. Hopefully, all the youth Rafa has brought in will come good in a year or three but if Rafa is gone, we'll never know. Arsenal have done nothing in the league for the last few years. Infact we have done better, yet they have persisted so why shouldnt we? If we chop and change all the time, we'll get no where slowly.

I agree totally that we should be beating teams like that, no one would argue against it but the team that went out there yesterday SHOULD have beaten them. They all need to take some blame, not just Rafa.

Oh, the players are also accountable, no arguments there. But as i've said, the manager must get them up for it and playing. They've been like that far too many times and Rafa still hasnt sorted it.

As for Arsenal doing nothing for the last two years, you're right, they didnt (well, except for reaching the CL final) but they'd earnt that lean period by being regular title challengers previously.

[Craig_H]

I also think someone with the ego and arrogance of Mourinho would be great for the club. I hate the bloke as a man, but have huge respect for him as a manager. He takes no nonsense and is able to motivate through his arrogance. He truelly believes that he is the best in the world at what he does, and that attitude would transfer to the players building confidence and morale. As much as I love the liverpool ethos of having 'nice' managers, I'd gladly take Mourninho today!

Key point for me. I think people dismiss this all too easily.