Question for those who dont want rafa gone...

[Craig_H]

19 points off the top of the league. - Not good enough
Probable 20+ point defecit by the end of the season. - Maybe, maybe more, maybe less.
Struggle to finish 4th. - Again maybeWe ARE struggling.
Struggle to knock Luton out of the cup. - 5 nil?5-0 after hanging on by the skin of our teeth in the 1st game - we were lucky to get a replay.
Given a scare by part timers. - Define scare? they were never going to winThem scoring once, let alone twice at anfield, is embarrassing. Them leading once, let alone twice, was embarrassing. Granted it wasnt terminal.
Dumped out at home by Barnsley. - Enough chances to win 5 games, did Rafa miss any of themThe person who wouldnt have probably missed them was left out. Who decided that?
No title challenge in four years. - No title challenge for 16 years before thatSo what we're saying here then, is that because we didnt challenge for 16 years, we're happy to never challenge again?
Strange team selections. - In your opinionI'm not in the minority there.
Odd substitutions. - Again your opinionAgain, many agree.
Bizarre systems. - See aboveSee above.
Players playing out of position. - Agreed not a good policyNeither is playing systems that the players arent comfortable with.
Persisting with flops. - Who are the flops he has persisted withKuyt's name is screaming at me very loudly here Arguably boring football. - Football's never boring when we win.
Agreed. But we're not, are we?

I'm not being argumentative but I'm a Liverpool supporter, that means I'll support whoever our manager is until they leave then I'll support the next one.
All the top clubs have continuity, all the top clubs have managers who control the whole club from top to bottom, Rafa has only been responsible for the reserves and youth since this season.
If you want instant results then supporting Liverpool isn't the place for any of us at the moment.
We need to support Rafa, allow him to clear out the underachievers and see where we are this time next season.

What's 'instant' about nearly 4 years in charge? I dont want instant results, i want us to perform to the level we're capable of. 4th place shouldnt be a doubt, with a squad of our size and ability. Losing to Barnsley at home shouldnt even have entered our minds.

As for support...look, i WANT rafa to succeed. I WANT us to win and challenge. It's not like i've just taken a dislike to him, my feelings are results orientated. If he has us challenging, there's no reason to criticise. But we arent, we're nowhere near. It's simply not good enough.

[Dhav]

I'll be happy when LFC achieve what the club is capable of. I'd be over the moon if rafa is the one who takes us there. But i dont believe he'll do that.
I support the club, i want the best for the club. I believe his mistakes are taking us backwards and damaging the club. I believe Jose Mourinho would win the title for LFC.
I want LFC to win the title.

It's as easy as that.

Do you really think Mourinho would come to Liverpool and work under the yanks? Do you think any top manager would come to Liverpool and put his reputation on the line and work under owners who in the past have broken their word to their manager and tried to undermine him?Will a top manager want to work with meagre transfer funds? Not a chance in hell.

[sonsofthedesert]

I'll be happy when LFC achieve what the club is capable of. I'd be over the moon if rafa is the one who takes us there. But i dont believe he'll do that.
I support the club, i want the best for the club. I believe his mistakes are taking us backwards and damaging the club. I believe Jose Mourinho would win the title for LFC.
I want LFC to win the title.

It's as easy as that.

So you want a classless c**t who crticises refs to the point that they get death threats, criticises the ambulance service even though they do a great job in hard circumstances, who is a sore loser that goes on about the 2005 SF CL goal not being a goal, forgettng that if it hadn't been given his goal keeper would have been sent off, that shushed our fans, that plays long ball ugly football to be our manager. You think this would help bring our club back to where it was.
This along with the fact you have been calling for this all season tells me you don't know what this great club stands for so how can you claim to want the best for it or even claim to know what the best is when you don't know what the club is about.

I want to win games but I also want to win them with attractive football, class and the club to be understated in the press. Maureen can not offer any of these things and a fan calling for the managers head all season - which you have can not understand them. You re clueless when it comes to LFC.

[sonsofthedesert]

Do you really think Mourinho would come to Liverpool and work under the yanks? Do you think any top manager would come to Liverpool and put his reputation on the line and work under owners who in the past have broken their word to their manager and tried to undermine him?Will a top manager want to work with meagre transfer funds? Not a chance in hell.

Another point is Maureen stands for everything LFC shouldn't be.

[Craig_H]

What makes no sense? The fact that you're calling for Rafa's head at every opportunity? The fact that anyone who wants Rafa to stay and succeed is a member of the RCDNW Brigade?

Fair enough about me being abusive unneccessarily, but it's not a regular thing DJS. I came on the other day to read posts about how Kuyt was an ugly c**t and should f**k off. And how Benitez should go on holiday and not come back. I reacted to that in the wrong way and apologise for that, but it was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I'd be interested to know where you got "plenty of cases" of me being abusive from.

You're very good at whipping up this anti-Rafa/pro-Mourinho frenzy, dismissing other peoples opinions, at least the ones that differ from yours, and then denying what you're doing. I'm sick of Liverpool "supporters" not supporting our club. That includes the manager, the players and everyone else connected. There are so many internet managers out there that seem to know better than our manager. It gets very tiring.

You are one of the main culprits, but you're clever enough to dress it up and let the other less intelligent people do your dirty work. (That may sound patronising, but i'm sorry, that's the way it is).

Get behind the ****ing club and stop pushing your dirty agenda on everyone. The more you deny you have an agenda, the less credibility you have. Take responsibilty for what you say (as I have done) and be accountable, but most of all, do what "fans" should do. That's not being blind or burying your head in the sand, that's make the most of what we've got and show that you're behind the ****ing club.

If i've been offensive at all (to you or anyone else) again, I apologise.

Perhaps 'plenty of cases' wasnt accurate, so apologies. I hear what you're saying about the stuff you've read recently, with 'fans' calling players and Rafa 'cunts' and other ****e. It's disgraceful. But please, when reacting to that, react to those who were guilty of it. I wasnt and havent been.

The whole agenda thing is laughable. Actually ask yourself logically, if rafa was bringing us success, why would anyone want him out? Why are half the ground booing? Do they have an agenda too? Do the thousands of LFC fans who think we're going backwards have an agenda too?

If i think something is damaging the club's fortunes and taking it backwards, how can i possibly be happy with it and claim i love the club and care about it? If something's damaging something i love, i want it to stop. It cant be that complicated to understand.

If you dont think rafa could turn it around, you'd want someone who could. That's where i stand.

[El Jefecito]

As always problems are far more complex than regular people like us assume. To pin underperformance on a single factor such as Rafa is just niave. Why have we perfomed so badly this season.

Heres why:

Rafa has over estimated he compotence of his squad and rotation has cost us a few games.

Kuyt has had such a loss of confidence that he basically doesn't contribute anymore.

Carra has underperformed and given away loads of penalties.

The owners have undermined the manager.

The press are proactively going after the team.

Confidence has been low.

Injuries to key players have not helped us.

I could add another 10 different reasons. ALL of these have contributed to our poor performance. If you can't recognize that then you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Anyone who thinks just replacing Rafa would have made any significant difference is either myopic or niave in the extreme.

That said how can we NOW as fans help the manager, the team, the club. SUPPORT THEM FFS. Nothing will happend till the end of the season so SUPPORT us until then.

That's my piece. A lot on here need to realize that this is not a black and white world

[sonsofthedesert]

As always problems are far more complex than regular people like us assume. To pin underperformance on a single factor such as Rafa is just niave. Why have we perfomed so badly this season.

Heres why:

Rafa has over estimated he compotence of his squad and rotation has cost us a few games.

Kuyt has had such a loss of confidence that he basically doesn't contribute anymore.

Carra has underperformed and given away loads of penalties.

The owners have undermined the manager.

The press are proactively going after the team.

Confidence has been low.

Injuries to key players have not helped us.

I could add another 10 different reasons. ALL of these have contributed to our poor performance. If you can't recognize that then you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Anyone who thinks just replacing Rafa would have made any significant difference is either myopic or niave in the extreme.

That said how can we NOW as fans help the manager, the team, the club. SUPPORT THEM FFS. Nothing will happend till the end of the season so SUPPORT us until then.

That's my piece. A lot on here need to realize that this is not a black and white world

Spot on mate.

[the rev leeroy brown]

As always problems are far more complex than regular people like us assume. To pin underperformance on a single factor such as Rafa is just niave. Why have we perfomed so badly this season.

Heres why:

Rafa has over estimated he compotence of his squad and rotation has cost us a few games.

Kuyt has had such a loss of confidence that he basically doesn't contribute anymore.

Carra has underperformed and given away loads of penalties.

The owners have undermined the manager.

The press are proactively going after the team.

Confidence has been low.

Injuries to key players have not helped us.

I could add another 10 different reasons. ALL of these have contributed to our poor performance. If you can't recognize that then you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Anyone who thinks just replacing Rafa would have made any significant difference is either myopic or niave in the extreme.

That said how can we NOW as fans help the manager, the team, the club. SUPPORT THEM FFS. Nothing will happend till the end of the season so SUPPORT us until then.

That's my piece. A lot on here need to realize that this is not a black and white world

HOLY **** SOMETHING SENSIBLE'S BEEN WRITTEN!!!!!!

[Craig_H]

Anyone remember this thread:- http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=6069

and this post in particular by univofchicago?

:whatever:

If i'd posted that, i'd get the usual 'sanctimonious' 'patronising' 'abusive' etc etc etc...

You're obviously popular

[Sarb]

As always problems are far more complex than regular people like us assume. To pin underperformance on a single factor such as Rafa is just niave. Why have we perfomed so badly this season.

Heres why:

Rafa has over estimated he compotence of his squad and rotation has cost us a few games.

Kuyt has had such a loss of confidence that he basically doesn't contribute anymore.

Carra has underperformed and given away loads of penalties.

The owners have undermined the manager.

The press are proactively going after the team.

Confidence has been low.

Injuries to key players have not helped us.

I could add another 10 different reasons. ALL of these have contributed to our poor performance. If you can't recognize that then you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Anyone who thinks just replacing Rafa would have made any significant difference is either myopic or niave in the extreme.

That said how can we NOW as fans help the manager, the team, the club. SUPPORT THEM FFS. Nothing will happend till the end of the season so SUPPORT us until then.

That's my piece. A lot on here need to realize that this is not a black and white world

Do you think any part of the underperformance this season is to do with Rafa?

[El Jefecito]

Do you think any part of the underperformance this season is to do with Rafa?

Did you not read the post? Of course I do, he has rotated players in who are not good enough. In fact El Jefecito and El Nino aside I think everyone has contributed to the disappoinment that this season has been.

[Sarb]

Did you not read the post? Of course I do, he has rotated players in who are not good enough.

Just rotation though? How about getting rid of Pako?
How about bad tactics and wrong substitutions? Did read your post. There a lot of factors causing the underperformance...not solely Rafa like you say, but a lot more related to him than just rotation i think

[Sarb]

Did you not read the post? Of course I do, he has rotated players in who are not good enough. In fact El Jefecito and El Nino aside I think everyone has contributed to the disappoinment that this season has been.

Although i don't agree with the stick Carra has been getting of late. Think we can add him to Mascher and Torres

[El Jefecito]

Just rotation though? How about getting rid of Pako?
How about bad tactics and wrong substitutions? Did read your post. There a lot of factors causing the underperformance...not solely Rafa like you say, but a lot more related to him than just rotation i think

I think the Pako situation was something that Rafa could do nothing about. Based on Rafa's interview on LiverpoolTranslateds site, he was given no option.

Unlike everyone else I've always been able to see the sense in Rafa's substitutions. None of the ones on saturday suprised me I could see the rationale. I would agree however that he is not aggressive enough and that sometimes he should make changes at half time for example.

Tactics, I think he is almost always spot on, I don't think there is another manager in the world that gets more out of a team by selecting the best tactics.

[stevie_gerrard_8]

Although i don't agree with the stick Carra has been getting of late. Think we can add him to Mascher and Torres

Swap Carra with Reina then im happy