Rafa - I'm here to stay

[dww]

Arsenal will probably finish third in the PL, knocked out in the SF in the CC, last 16 in the CL and last 16 in the FA Cup.

I can't call that success. I call that not good enough and Wenger will be under a lot of pressure next season.

If we finish fourth in the PL and gets through to the SF of the CL, then Rafa has again made a better season than Wenger.

I can't help feeling that Arsenal are not probably third place finishers to be honest. I think 1st or 2nd is more likely. I think there is very little value in an argument which is entirely hypothetical any way.

Whichever way you slice it Arsenal have been competing for the title for much more of this season than we have so far and continue to be in with a shout of actually winning and are at the same stage of the CL as us at present.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

It's an expression. It's quite subtle, look up other definitions of the word rules and you'll get it.

It’s an expression alright, but it has no relevance here.

Previously I said it's possible to compete for the league without spending massive sums like the scum and Chelsea have.

So because of this Wenger is labeled an anomaly or an exception.

I don’t understand why?

So what standard are we holding Benitez to here? That he isn't capable of challenging for the league without spending vast amounts.

He can win the European Cup with a largely mediocre side but he can't get results week in week out with a better squad, after buying Mascherano, Torres and such, in the process spending a large amount of money.

Isn't that contradictive argument?

It’s a major concern of mine. Yet I hear others defend him with various inductive arguments based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever.

We can judge our own manager on results (to date) in isolation:

Cup competitions: Very good.

League: Not good enough.

Then it comes down to personal preference whether he deserves more time or not.

[Sarb]

what point?

that you feel rafa should be replaced but not sacked , can you run that by me again then?

It's similar to how people get labelled being as being in a sack Rafa brigade when we feel he needs to be replaced. That's the same comment that comes out all the time. There isn't no brigade on a mission to get him sacked. Just our opinions that he's taken the team as far as possible

There is never a balanced debate as the people that say he should go get slated and called WUM's etc.

That's my quote from earlier mate. I think there has been some confusion over the 6 or 7 pages. Yes I think it's time for Rafa to be replaced because I feel he has taken us as far as he can in the League. That's my main point. If you read the above comment, you'll see what I was referring to. People get labelled WUM's etc when they say Rafa should be sacked. It's just a difference of opinion. I don't quite get what you're trying to say. Possibly because it's 8pm on a Sunday and it's been a long weekend

Not sure if this makes anything clearer or not for you. But the gist of what I'm getting at (not sure about Rashid, DJS, I'm sure they'll add their own view) is that Rafa should be sacked/replaced in my opinion because we have not performed in the bread and butter competition and are nowhere nearer winning it than when he took over. That's based on a combination of tactics, rotation and whatever else. If there are people out there happy to keep doing well in the European Cup then that's fine.

[Vermilion]

No point saying anything else now, when i hear people say they think Rafa has taken the team as far as he can, i despair, i just can't see how anyone could logically say that, even worse believe it.

No insults, no sarcasm, just amazement.

[pezzzer]

It's similar to how people get labelled being as being in a sack Rafa brigade when we feel he needs to be replaced. That's the same comment that comes out all the time. There isn't no brigade on a mission to get him sacked. Just our opinions that he's taken the team as far as possible

There is never a balanced debate as the people that say he should go get slated and called WUM's etc.

That's my quote from earlier mate. I think there has been some confusion over the 6 or 7 pages. Yes I think it's time for Rafa to be replaced because I feel he has taken us as far as he can in the League. That's my main point. If you read the above comment, you'll see what I was referring to. People get labelled WUM's etc when they say Rafa should be sacked. It's just a difference of opinion. I don't quite get what you're trying to say. Possibly because it's 8pm on a Sunday and it's been a long weekend

Not sure if this makes anything clearer or not for you. But the gist of what I'm getting at (not sure about Rashid, DJS, I'm sure they'll add their own view) is that Rafa should be sacked/replaced in my opinion because we have not performed in the bread and butter competition and are nowhere nearer winning it than when he took over. That's based on a combination of tactics, rotation and whatever else. If there are people out there happy to keep doing well in the European Cup then that's fine.

its your point and your entitled to it.

i personally believe rafa has done an outstanding job given his resources and what he inherited. he's bought us on so far from gh's days and were it not for the off the field shananagans then MAYBE we would still be in contention for no.19

if rafa was to leave tmrw who ever took over from him would find a well organised youth development programme, a winning set of reserves with good young prospects firing on all cylinders and a crux of first team players that would grace any league club in europe.

rafa has done a lot of housekeeping since he came here, similar to what fergie/wenger had to do when they first took over at there clubs but rafa has had to do it at the same time as competing and to a great extent he has.

i'm willing and hoping rafa gets to finish the job he started, a strong finish this year, maybe no.6 in the bag and our closest finish to the top since his reign began. then next year with the ownership and final cull of mediocrity (that means you mr parry as well) then i really think we can win the league with rafa finishing the job he started

that is my opinion

[red g]

He can get the best out of it.

You seem to be impressed by the squad he's put together yet refuse to give him a semblance of credit for it.

He has failings and he has strengths, like all managers. I believe given the time to see out the job (he is barely halfway through the 'project') - as Wenger was when they came a distant 4th, twice - then he'll win the league. Some Arsenal fans were calling for his head last year yet they've defied all internet messageboard logic by leaping from stragglers in 4th place to mounting a proper title challenge.

There is absolutely no reason why Benitez can't do that with us.

It is a cast-iron fact that without Rafa we'd have no Torres, no Reina, no Mascherano and no Alonso. He is slowly but surely putting together a top class squad and he should be afforded patience and time to see it out. This short-termist kneerjerking will get us nowhere. Back to square one with a new manager. No thanks. Rome wasn't built in a day.

superb

[El Jefecito]

It’s an expression alright, but it has no relevance here.

Previously I said it's possible to compete for the league without spending massive sums like the scum and Chelsea have.

So because of this Wenger is labeled an anomaly or an exception.

I don’t understand why?

So what standard are we holding Benitez to here? That he isn't capable of challenging for the league without spending vast amounts.

He can win the European Cup with a largely mediocre side but he can't get results week in week out with a better squad, after buying Mascherano, Torres and such, in the process spending a large amount of money.

Isn't that contradictive argument?

It’s a major concern of mine. Yet I hear others defend him with various inductive arguments based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever.

We can judge our own manager on results (to date) in isolation:

Cup competitions: Very good.

League: Not good enough.

Then it comes down to personal preference whether he deserves more time or not.

To be honest I only used that expression because it, on the surface, is a contradiction

Now as to the actual content, as you say it comes down to preference. We can have the circular arguments, too much money, not enough, crap players, best squad, CL, EPL blah blah blah

Two things give me hope

1/ Less rotation
2/ Stable formation

At least the RCDNR brigade should recognise that the situation has changed over the last couple of weeks.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

At least the RCDNR brigade should recognise that the situation has changed over the last couple of weeks.

What situation?

[El Jefecito]

What situation?

Duh! That there has been less rotation and a stable formation.

[Rashid]

No point saying anything else now, when i hear people say they think Rafa has taken the team as far as he can, i despair, i just can't see how anyone could logically say that, even worse believe it.

No insults, no sarcasm, just amazement.

How about lingering around 3rd, 4th and 5th for 4 seasons on the trot being a good barometre?

[El Jefecito]

How about lingering around 3rd, 4th and 5th for 4 seasons on the trot being a good barometre?

How about being able to rebuild, from scratch, a squad to compare to Manure and Chelski?

[Rashid]

How about being able to rebuild, from scratch, a squad to compare to Manure and Chelski?

That's cool the team that was dubbed "scratch" actually achieved the 4th he is desperately hoping to achieve this season.

[El Jefecito]

That's cool the team that was dubbed "scratch" actually achieved the 4th he is desperately hoping to achieve this season.

5th actually. But hey facts are not your best friends are they.

[Rashid]

5th actually. But hey facts are not your best friends are they.

Houllier finished 4th in his last season.... it was Rafa who finished 5th... A YEAR LATER.. but I guess now we are not allowed to use Rafa's first season... shall we scratch out the CL win too?

[nbryan1764]

That's cool the team that was dubbed "scratch" actually achieved the 4th he is desperately hoping to achieve this season.

yawn yawn we have been through this...4th with 60 points in and 30 points behind the champions we WILL get more than 60 points this season and we will NOT be 30 points behind the champions using only one stat to back this argument (i.e. the final position) is flawed when making comparisons. I realise that you may have missed this fact as this is now 7 pages long but there you go