Rafa - I'm here to stay

[nbryan1764]

Why cant i disagree with people? What rules am i breaking? Am i being abusive?

Is my input only allowed if it goes along with the majority?

I don't think you are abusive (although I have seen you use the odd :whatever: and in my book that is punch inducing) but you can be incredibly condescending. However I may be as so bold as try to read Red Hots intentions with that comment I don't think it relates to you disagreeing, hell thats what these forums are for. What I think she refers to is that every thread turns into 1)Rafa bashing, and then 2)Playground arguments. Remember this thread was borne out of the DIC thread?!?!?

[Rashid]

Could Rafa be doing well in Europe as he has **** all to play for every season from January onwards?

[AFII]

Mourinho played Cech, Terry, Carvalho, Lampard and Drogba basically whenever they were available. If rafa did likewise with Pepe, Carra, Agger, Stevie, Mascher and Torres, it'd be a start. Maybe he'll start doing it. God willing...

Eh, he is doing that

[nbryan1764]

Could Rafa be doing well in Europe as he has **** all to play for every season from January onwards?

changed your stance? Earlier his record was nothing to write home about?

[BFG]

Could Rafa be doing well in Europe as he has **** all to play for every season from January onwards?

If you were looking for a stick to beat the guy with then yes, certainly.

If however, you were trying to give a fair summation of his achievements in Europe with Valencia and Liverpool then you'd have to say that there are very few managers around with his prowess in Europe and as we don't spend Premier League winning money we're very lucky to have him on board as he allows us to overachieve on a massive scale in the Champions League, therefore boosting our profile and revenue and hence building funds up to take us toward the level of spending needed to attain the holy grail of the Premier League crown.

[AFII]

We also need the CL money, Man U or Chelsea don't need that as much as us.

That will affect the way the manager priorities the competitions. Rafa will have to make a great run in the CL because we simply can't challenge in the league right now.

The CL is the only hope of winning one of the big two, the CL and PL. That will also affect the way Rafa priorities the CL and the PL.

When Rafa have a secured transfer budget and have a realistic chance to challenge for the title, then it's the time to change the focus from the CL to the PL.

[barnes10]

i'd love to see a ranking of how much each of the top 10 clubs have won in PRIZE money over the past few seasons.

then match that with the quality of squad available to the managers.

then match it with the total spends of each of those clubs.

We'll see that rafa is the 'most efficient' manager of them. we'll see that rafa basically earns pretty much all his spending money through prize money whilst the other managers (wenger excluded perhaps) get injections from their owners at least as much as rafa gets. Now as we all know, spending to the point of winning the league quickly is not the best Return on Investment as it requires huge outlay (chelski...). do it slower and over time and its more likely to be done affodably (Arsenal & Mancs).

So to all those bleating about why the CL and not the prem, this is why the CL is our priority. As our ****ing owners don't/haven't injected any cash to give us the squad for the Premiership. And if anyone raises the torres/masher fees without accounting for the fact we're mortgaged to the hilt to pay for them then I'm not going to respond to you. we need the stadium and marketing to double our income so we're on a level playing field with the rest and can then get the players to win the league. until then, we just wont.

[1 True Red]

This is the players that was good enough when Rafa took over after Houllier, I don't count Owen because Rafa had to sell him.

Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia and Gerrard.

Four players. He had around £16m net to spend and a lot of more or less unsaleable players that we had to loan out and still pay a part of their wages.

At the same time Man U and Chelsea was many miles ahead of us and Arsenal had built up their squad and system for many years.

Fourth was the absolute best anyone with a realistic view could ask from him.

He added Garcia and Alonso as the quality players the first season and then some squad players to cope with a long season. You really can't ask for anything more than that.

I give Rafa five out of five for his 2004-05 season because of our CL win.

Now to the 2005-06 season.

He still had the problem with some unsaleable players and around £16m net to spend on players.

He now added Reina and in January Agger as the quality signings and sold Baros for £6.5m as the big sale.

We finished third in the league on 82 points, one point behind Man U. Won the FA Cup and got knocked out in the last 16 in the CL.

I give Rafa 4.5 out of five for that season.

Now to the 2006-07 season.

He still had some more or less unsaleable players left that he had to sell on the cheap and around £16m net to spend.

Kuyt, Pennant and Bellamy was the main signings. Morientes, Pongolle, Kirkland, and Traore was sold on the cheap.

We finished third in the league and got to the final in the CL.

I give Rafa 4.5 out of five for the 2006-07 season.

We will have to wait and see what results we will get this season.

During this time Rafa have also changed the Academy from being rubbish to probably the best in the country.

So Rafa's results has been fantastic so far if you look at the overall picture.

Good assesment AF with one that i agree with

[Steve101]

Mourinho was... he got his team to the semis two years in 3... coupled with league title wins. Wenger got his to a final 18 months ago. It depends where your bread is buttered.. if you want the league you go for a manager who can get you it, if you want the CL you go for Rafa although I am sure the Anfield crowd has a lot do with it too... Rafa's record in the CL with Valencia wasn't anything to write home about.

No he wasn't. The Chelsea situation was/s a freak one, with unheard of amounts of money lavished on nearly every player the coach wanted. Of course he did well to win the title twice, i'm not denying that, but i think most of us could do well given the players he had, its like CM in real life. I'd also take issue with the myth that he was succesful in europe with chelsea. People say coming second in the prem is failure, so by the same token so is getting only to the semi-final of the CL, or even losing a final. your point doesnt bear up, youll after find another stick to beat Rafa with.

[pezzzer]

I suppose the advantage Fergie had was that there wasnt as much pressure from the media, the money men and the fans back then. It was just a game.

The issue I guess is, Fergie made improvement after improvement in the league as did Wenger. Under Rafa, we seem to be the same.

Rafa HAS to take some of the blame for his rotation / resting / picking best team on the day.

but fergie took 5 years to win anything! 5 YEARS and then it was only the FA cup, he had the same problems as rafa has had ie building from the bottom up whilst learning the league.

the difference is at least rafa has won major honours along the way, and the team (as are others around us) has improved beyond recognition from the one he inherited.
agreed he has made mistakes but didnt fergie in his 1st 5 years?

give him time and TOP money and the possibilities for winning everything are endless.

[Craig_H]

Fergie didnt inherit a side anywhere NEAR as good as the one Rafa inherited.

When you say give him time and top money? How much longer than four years and £150m?

Should he just be untouchable for 10 more years and get £60m per summer?

[wiw]

Fergie didnt inherit a side anywhere NEAR as good as the one Rafa inherited.

When you say give him time and top money? How much longer than four years and £150m?

Should he just be untouchable for 10 more years and get £60m per summer?

So what? Do you really believe the squad he inherited was good enough to win the Champions League?

Has he really had 150m? You can't just take that in isolation anyway..i'm only going to repeat what AFII, shaggy and others have said in defence of what Rafa's done anyway so **** it..or are you on a wind up?

[pezzzer]

Fergie didnt inherit a side anywhere NEAR as good as the one Rafa inherited.

When you say give him time and top money? How much longer than four years and £150m?

Should he just be untouchable for 10 more years and get £60m per summer?

would fergie , when looking for a first team striker given himself a budget of 6 million and considerd bellamy?
would fergie when looking for a first team winger given himself a budget of 6 millio and bought pennant?
no?
rafa did because thats all he was allowed
how do you fail to grasp this djs? fergie and wenger through time have got themselfs settled squads so every year fergie esp can go out and buy 20 million plus players that are top quality to add to his settled side.

until this year rafa has had to buy outright mediocrity that dont cost the earth but can do a job, and were still short of 3 top class players due to money issues but fergie/chavs have the full set so its obvious that given the finances rafa can bring in the right quality we still lack and compete

torres and babel have been supurb buys but we need more, surely you can see that

[Red_hot]

would fergie , when looking for a first team striker given himself a budget of 6 million and considerd bellamy?
would fergie when looking for a first team winger given himself a budget of 6 millio and bought pennant?
no?
rafa did because thats all he was allowed
how do you fail to grasp this djs? fergie and wenger through time have got themselfs settled squads so every year fergie esp can go out and buy 20 million plus players that are top quality to add to his settled side.

until this year rafa has had to buy outright mediocrity that dont cost the earth but can do a job, and were still short of 3 top class players due to money issues but fergie/chavs have the full set so its obvious that given the finances rafa can bring in the right quality we still lack and compete

torres and babel have been supurb buys but we need more, surely you can see that

I'd give up mate. Nothing gets through.

[kopdan]

but fergie took 5 years to win anything! 5 YEARS and then it was only the FA cup, he had the same problems as rafa has had ie building from the bottom up whilst learning the league.

the difference is at least rafa has won major honours along the way, and the team (as are others around us) has improved beyond recognition from the one he inherited.
agreed he has made mistakes but didnt fergie in his 1st 5 years?

give him time and TOP money and the possibilities for winning everything are endless.

aye agreed, hold my hands up there.

We need to spend bigger money on the team I agree that.

And I havent said sack him either.