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[El Jefecito]

NO - He's flopped badly at Bayern in the last 2/3 seasons. A lot of Bayern supporters have turned on him - this is according to my Bayern supporting friend.

Pity, he was awesome in the world cup. And he's always class in FM

[Craig_H]

Rooney 8 goals. Is that a match winner?
Tevez 11 goals. Match winner?

So if Steven Gerrard has a **** spell, he is no longer good?

If Torres has a barren spell where he doesnt score goals, he stops being a good goalscorer?

Anyone with a bit of sense realises that Rooney and Tevez are proven matchwinners...Man Utd havent lost when Rooney's played.

Ask West Ham fans what they think about Tevez...

[marcus50bucks]

So if Steven Gerrard has a **** spell, he is no longer good?

If Torres has a barren spell where he doesnt score goals, he stops being a good goalscorer?

Anyone with a bit of sense realises that Rooney and Tevez are proven matchwinners...Man Utd havent lost when Rooney's played.

Ask West Ham fans what they think about Tevez...

SpeedyG is talking **** if he doesn't think Rooney or Tevez are matchwinners.

[El Jefecito]

So if Steven Gerrard has a **** spell, he is no longer good?

If Torres has a barren spell where he doesnt score goals, he stops being a good goalscorer?

Anyone with a bit of sense realises that Rooney and Tevez are proven matchwinners...Man Utd havent lost when Rooney's played.

Ask West Ham fans what they think about Tevez...

Never said any of that you are putting words into my mouth. The question is: Is a player who scores 8 goals a match winner?

[El Jefecito]

SpeedyG is talking **** if he doesn't think Rooney or Tevez are matchwinners.

****. All is asked is is a player with 8 goals a match winner?

[saj]

****. All is asked is is a player with 8 goals a match winner?

Well to answer your question: If I was looking to purchase a matchwinner, would I consider signing a striker who has scored just 8 goals even if he's skillful and gets the odd assist? The answer - would I ****!

Kuyt gets the odd goal and assist. He runs like forrest gump and closes down defenders. Does that mean Kuyt is a matchwinner? NO NO NO!

In my opinion, United have only 1 matchwinner and that's Ronaldo. We luckily have 2 in Gerrard and now Torres.

[El Jefecito]

Well to answer your question: If I was looking to purchase a matchwinner, would I consider signing a striker who has scored just 8 goals even if he's skillful and gets the odd assist? The answer - would I ****!

Kuyt gets the odd goal and assist. He runs like forrest gump and closes down defenders. Does that mean Kuyt is a matchwinner? NO NO NO!

In my opinion, United have only 1 matchwinner and that's Ronaldo. We luckily have 2 in Gerrard and now Torres.

Banjani has more than Rooney

[dww]

I'm sure we can all discuss this without the personal insults.

FWIW I think that we have all seen Rooney over the last few years turn enough games United's and Evertons way to easily qualify as a matchwinner. I think the quoting of the goals scored stat is misleading for a couple of reasons - firstly those used are only for one season and secondly they only tell part of the story anyway. Obviously a player who doesn't score can't really be described as a match winner but at the same time the title is in my opinion given for the ability to change the course of a game in your teams favour in both assists and goals.

Tevez was undoubtedly a match winner for West Ham. For United I think the case is less clear, I suspect in the long term the fact he gets goals in big games (like against us) and his past is indicative that he will prove himself to be. It is also clear that teams fear him, Rooney and Ronaldo as individuals as well as part of one of the divisions top teams which is always good yard stick.

Whether the combination of Rooney and Tevez is the best way for United to go long term is obviously an open question. They are however capable of winning games with pieces of magic on their own and so it seems reasonable that they have earned the match winner tags given to them here.

[El Jefecito]

I'm sure we can all discuss this without the personal insults.

FWIW I think that we have all seen Rooney over the last few years turn enough games United's and Evertons way to easily qualify as a matchwinner. I think the quoting of the goals scored stat is misleading for a couple of reasons - firstly those used are only for one season and secondly they only tell part of the story anyway. Obviously a player who doesn't score can't really be described as a match winner but at the same time the title is in my opinion given for the ability to change the course of a game in your teams favour in both assists and goals.

Tevez was undoubtedly a match winner for West Ham. For United I think the case is less clear, I suspect in the long term the fact he gets goals in big games (like against us) and his past is indicative that he will prove himself to be. It is also clear that teams fear him, Rooney and Ronaldo as individuals as well as part of one of the divisions top teams which is always good yard stick.

Whether the combination of Rooney and Tevez is the best way for United to go long term is obviously an open question. They are however capable of winning games with pieces of magic on their own and so it seems reasonable that they have earned the match winner tags given to them here.

Is or was? Think about it and ignore received wisdom.

[Craig_H]

Nobody with the most remote ounce of footballing knowledge would deny that Rooney and Tevez are both matchwinners.

[El Jefecito]

Nobody with the most remote ounce of footballing knowledge would deny that Rooney and Tevez are both matchwinners.

Answer the question.

[Craig_H]

Never said any of that you are putting words into my mouth. The question is: Is a player who scores 8 goals a match winner?

I never put those words into your mouth, i was asking a question. Has Torres only scored 20 goals this season? Rooney has 13, in actual fact.

Your argument would imply that if Gerrard or Torres had a poor spell or poor season, whereby they maybe only score 13 goals, they cease to be matchwinners - which is clearly codswallop.

[El Jefecito]

Nobody with the most remote ounce of footballing knowledge would deny that Rooney and Tevez are both matchwinners.

BTW Why the implication of my not having an ounce of sense because I think 8 goals is not the mark of a match winner.

Insults usually come from you once you work out your wrong.

[El Jefecito]

I never put those words into your mouth, i was asking a question.

Your argument would imply that if Gerrard or Torres had a poor spell or poor season, whereby they maybe only score 8 goals, they cease to be matchwinners - which is clearly codswallop.

So you are either a match winner forever because you have a season or you are not a match winner. This season Rooney has not been a match winner, he only has 8 goals, is that the hallmark of a match winner.

[Craig_H]

BTW Why the implication of my not having an ounce of sense because I think 8 goals is not the mark of a match winner.

Insults usually come from you once you work out your wrong.

Sorry, but in my opinion, anyone who denies that Rooney & Tevez are matchwinners IS clueless. If that insults you, then we'll have to cope with it, but it's my opinion and i'm entitled to express it.

Your point relies on the notion that the extent of Rooney's contributions in football reach a conclusion at scoring 8 goals. That is clearly completely selective and you deliberately ignore anything else he is capable of doing, or has done previously.

I'm not sure of your opinion of Kuyt, but to use your selective methods, one could argue that a player who scores 1 goal from open play (and even then, one which deflects off his shin without him realising) is not the mark of a player who can play at a level higher than League One...

That would be silly though, because whilst not being great, Kuyt proved last season that when he's on song, he can compete at PL level.

8 goals indeed...