How have United managed to pull away?

[Roboklopp]

I think the manager has to take some blame, he's spent a lot of money and though he has signed some decent players I would doubt I'm alone in thinking that he's not gotten as much out of the squad in the league as he could have done. Compare this to Everton who have spent far less but are performing at a level far above what they perhaps should be. We need a season of over-achievement in the league and I don't think we've had one yet under Rafa.

In retrospect, arguably the 05/06 season was. Remember how many times we got players sent off against us.

[Roboklopp]

And the one thing that money can't buy. MENTALITY. At the very beginning of the year Pako said we wouldn't win the EPL because we don't have it yet.

We need that as much as we need FBs.

Aye, altho dont remember Pako saying that

[Red_Polo]

The season we finished a point behind them we got the most we could ever hope to get out of the team, whereas they underachieved because they were in transition - progress doesn't always show up in the league table until things have clicked into place. Since then they've got back on track and Ronaldo has been phenomenal, whilst we've been the ones in transition and trying to get things to click. It's not rocket science.

[pezzzer]

Aye, altho dont remember Pako saying that

neither do i but if he did i'd imagine it was just before rafa told him to clear his desk.

[Roboklopp]

The season we finished a point behind them we got the most we could ever hope to get out of the team, whereas they underachieved because they were in transition - progress doesn't always show up in the league table until things have clicked into place. Since then they've got back on track and Ronaldo has been phenomenal, whilst we've been the ones in transition and trying to get things to click. It's not rocket science.

succintly put. mentality is definitely a large factor tho too

[Rashid]

I don't think Rafa built on his first two years at the club Karl, and I dispute the issues with regard to Houllier's attitudes too. These players helped Rafa win a European Cup and an FA Cup. So you could argue when the squad has been full of "Rafa's Men" ie since that season we finished on 82 points, the team has won nothing and not looked like doing so.

The pattern and style of play has also largely been that of a poor standard and we have relied on individual players to win us games more of than not. This is mainly due to the standard of the players he bought in to replace Houllier's men. They just haven't been of suffecient quality.

So take people's example of Wenger in 2006 if that's what you want, he came in assessed the squad, he kept the old defenders all aged between 31 and 35 (the ones even his coach Pat Rice said should be replaced immediately) and concentrated on getting better players in. So out went the dross and in came Vieira, Anelka, Overmars and Petit.... this was a significant improvement on those they replaced and cost a combined £13m.

Where we have failed is in the transfers, we haven't improved (significantly) the quality of the first team overall despite the expense and I am suggesting that we don't allow Rafa to sign any more "Benayoun's" (sorry to single him out but he was a pointless signing and not that much better than Lil Luis) for the sake of it.

[Guest]

I don't think Rafa built on his first two years at the club Karl, and I dispute the issues with regard to Houllier's attitudes too. These players helped Rafa win a European Cup and an FA Cup. So you could argue when the squad has been full of "Rafa's Men" ie since that season we finished on 82 points, the team has won nothing and not looked like doing so.

The pattern and style of play has also largely been that of a poor standard and we have relied on individual players to win us games more of than not. This is mainly due to the standard of the players he bought in to replace Houllier's men. They just haven't been of suffecient quality.

So take people's example of Wenger in 2006 if that's what you want, he came in assessed the squad, he kept the old defenders all aged between 31 and 35 (the ones even his coach Pat Rice said should be replaced immediately) and concentrated on getting better players in. So out went the dross and in came Vieira, Anelka, Overmars and Petit.... this was a significant improvement on those they replaced and cost a combined £13m.

Where we have failed is in the transfers, we haven't improved (significantly) the quality of the first team overall despite the expense and I am suggesting that we don't allow Rafa to sign any more "Benayoun's" (sorry to single him out but he was a pointless signing and not that much better than Lil Luis) for the sake of it.

Stop comparing Rafa's style to Wenger's. Both are different managers.

As for our quality of play, you're harsh. We play some great football when we're on song.

Why pick out Benayoun again ??? He's an excellent player.

[Red Chilli]

Fredo

[WILF]

Ok , here's a question for you Rashid (and others)

If at the start of this season, after the transfer window had closed , Rafa and Ferguson had swopped jobs ,who do think would be higher now, LFC or the Mancs ??

[bigfooty]

Why pick out Benayoun again ??? He's an excellent player.

Can't be that excellent considering he's started just 3 of the last 10 games, if you include today, and we lost two of those.

Yossi has popped up with some goals this season but he can't have done too much to convince Rafa with him being left out of this 4-2-3-1 when you would think that he offers more going forward than Kuyt on the right of the trio.

[Guest]

Can't be that excellent considering he's started just 3 of the last 10 games, if you include today, and we lost two of those.

Yossi has popped up with some goals this season but he can't have done too much to convince Rafa with him being left out of this 4-2-3-1 when you would think that he offers more going forward than Kuyt on the right of the trio.

Your argument is flawed. How do you know why he's been left out of the team ? You think Kuyt is **** but Rafa plays him constantly !!!!

[bigfooty]

In retrospect, arguably the 05/06 season was. Remember how many times we got players sent off against us.

I disagree with that. We had a very slow start and a period in the middle of the season where we lost 3 of 4 games in the league (Utd away, Cheslea away, Charlton away), only drawing the other, which does not happen very often to us.

Crouch took a while to settle in, he was certainly a more potent player towards the end of the season and in the next campaign, and we had generally a lack of quality up top with Nando misfiring, a half-fit Fowler and Cisse.

Though the season featured two great runs of league performances there was definitely more to come from the side which is why 2006-2007 was all the more disappointing.

[bigfooty]

Your argument is flawed. How do you know why he's been left out of the team ? You think Kuyt is **** but Rafa plays him constantly !!!!

Kuyt has scored 2 goals since the middle of December. Considering the amount of games he has started I don't think that's a particularly impressive number and whilst I'd admit he's had a couple of decent games I believe he's being picked more for his work-rate in covering the defensive side of the pitch than his effectiveness going forward.

Now that's all well and good but for me in the 4-2-3-1 formation you want to be damn sure that the 3 are offensive threats because you're playing two defensive midfielders to do the grunt work. With Kuyt dropping back so much and not offering a huge amount going forward it becomes more like a 4-3-2-1 and the side loses it's shape.

[Roboklopp]

I disagree with that. We had a very slow start and a period in the middle of the season where we lost 3 of 4 games in the league (Utd away, Cheslea away, Charlton away), only drawing the other, which does not happen very often to us.

Crouch took a while to settle in, he was certainly a more potent player towards the end of the season and in the next campaign, and we had generally a lack of quality up top with Nando misfiring, a half-fit Fowler and Cisse.

Though the season featured two great runs of league performances there was definitely more to come from the side which is why 2006-2007 was all the more disappointing.

Hmm, I wasnt entirely conivinced myself, hence saying "arguably". Reckon you have some decent points there. Mebbe we dint overachieve, but we certainly got as much out of em as we could.

[Guest]

Kuyt has scored 2 goals since the middle of December. Considering the amount of games he has started I don't think that's a particularly impressive number and whilst I'd admit he's had a couple of decent games I believe he's being picked more for his work-rate in covering the defensive side of the pitch than his effectiveness going forward.

Now that's all well and good but for me in the 4-2-3-1 formation you want to be damn sure that the 3 are offensive threats because you're playing two defensive midfielders to do the grunt work. With Kuyt dropping back so much and not offering a huge amount going forward it becomes more like a 4-3-2-1 and the side loses it's shape.

Then you should be manager instead of Rafa.