Do we expect too much??

[AFII]

Fair shout. Must admit, after Derby, i thought we'd actually challenge. It's fine margins though, and the psychological thing that are letting us down.

It wasn't any psychological thing. Alonso was out injured and we hadn't bought Skrtel yet and that meant that Hyypia played week in week out, something he simply can't do anymore. That means that he put in a few below par performances and that affected the whole team.

Alonso out injured meant no 4-2-3-1 because Lucas wasn't ready yet.

The injuries to Alonso and Agger is what ruined our chance to win the title. We didn't had a strong enough squad to cope with them out injured.

[Craig_H]

It wasn't any psychological thing. Alonso was out injured and we hadn't bought Skrtel yet and that meant that Hyypia played week in week out, something he simply can't do anymore. That means that he put in a few below par performances and that affected the whole team.

Alonso out injured meant no 4-2-3-1 because Lucas wasn't ready yet.

The injuries to Alonso and Agger is what ruined our chance to win the title. We didn't had a strong enough squad to cope with them out injured.

You dont think we have a psychological issue when playing Man Utd, for example?

[barnes10]

Those three players cost us £20m mate. I dont think we've had £20m worth of impact from them, but each to their own.

what's 20 mill worth of impact tho? you say torres whilst he's clearly one of a kind. look at chelski if you're measuring 'worth of impact'. they blow 20 mill on a bench player.

how are you measuring impact?

so with that 20 mill, during the 2005-06 window, who'd you have signed then? pick a player.

[Craig_H]

what's 20 mill worth of impact tho? you say torres whilst he's clearly one of a kind. look at chelski if you're measuring 'worth of impact'. they blow 20 mill on a bench player.

how are you measuring impact?

so with that 20 mill, during the 2005-06 window, who'd you have signed then? pick a player.

Someone who plays and makes a significant contribution to games.

Now you'll ask me how to measure that...

[barnes10]

You dont think we have a psychological issue when playing Man Utd, for example?

note really. i think we've been unlucky. we have a squad that can implement tactics. those tactics are what makes us control games against even the top teams. what we have lacked is the finishing power - even with torres playing - to take a chance or two. the margins are extremely tight between us. they have been lucky. the last game being ruined before you quote the scoreline.

what is our psychological issue against them?

[barnes10]

Someone who plays and makes a significant contribution to games.

Now you'll ask me how to measure that...

not at all. i think kuyt makes a significant contribution to games whilst you clearly dont. he defends from the front and the middle as well as putting in assists and getting a few goals. he harries defences and pressures them to make mistakes and as we saw against arsenal, hoof the ball rather than picking out a pass. that's invaluable. he creates time and space for gerrad, torres and babel.

all in all. he's worth 9mill.

pennant can hold the ball up and pin back opposing left backs. milan final and chelsea are two examples of that. he helps us play in the oppositions half with a degree of control. compared to cisse who wouldn hit n run and then fluff a cross. pennant is an improvement in this position.

so he's worth about 5 mill and we paid 7. not bad.

[Craig_H]

not at all. i think kuyt makes a significant contribution to games whilst you clearly dont. he defends from the front and the middle as well as putting in assists and getting a few goals. he harries defences and pressures them to make mistakes and as we saw against arsenal, hoof the ball rather than picking out a pass. that's invaluable. he creates time and space for gerrad, torres and babel.

all in all. he's worth 9mill.

pennant can hold the ball up and pin back opposing left backs. milan final and chelsea are two examples of that. he helps us play in the oppositions half with a degree of control. compared to cisse who wouldn hit n run and then fluff a cross. pennant is an improvement in this position.

so he's worth about 5 mill and we paid 7. not bad.

I'm not questioning whether they're worth the money. I'm saying that collectively, their contribution is far less than that of a top class player, who we could've bought with the £20m.

[Guest]

I'm not questioning whether they're worth the money. I'm saying that collectively, their contribution is far less than that of a top class player, who we could've bought with the £20m.

I just need to reply to this pearl.

Imagine someone with a big impressive fat head, but with no legs to run on and with only one arm ? Would his massive head be enough to:

1) Run at his opponent
2) Knock him off

[Craig_H]

I just need to reply to this pearl.

Imagine someone with a big impressive fat head, but with no legs to run on and with only one arm ? Would his massive head be enough to:

1) Run at his opponent
2) Knock him off

I'll try, but you've never posted your picture, so it's not easy

[Guest]

I'll try, but you've never posted your picture, so it's not easy

[fred_plasticine]

note really. i think we've been unlucky. we have a squad that can implement tactics. those tactics are what makes us control games against even the top teams. what we have lacked is the finishing power - even with torres playing - to take a chance or two. the margins are extremely tight between us. they have been lucky. the last game being ruined before you quote the scoreline.

what is our psychological issue against them?

luck? i don't think so, no way. they've beaten us with late goals because we've not taken our chances, because we didn't look confident, because we lack believe. it's so obvious and evident every single time we play them. they believe the can sneak a win - we clearly don't.
a winning mentality - as rafa puts it - seperates the winners from the losers. that's part of why we're behind in the league. that's part of why arsenal lost it.

[Red_Polo]

You dont think we have a psychological issue when playing Man Utd, for example?

I do, although in general I think we're at the stage where the only way we can have the kind of belief we need is to gain confidence in our quality by actually demonstrating it to ourselves.

[barnes10]

luck? i don't think so, no way. they've beaten us with late goals because we've not taken our chances, because we didn't look confident, because we lack believe. it's so obvious and evident every single time we play them. they believe the can sneak a win - we clearly don't.
a winning mentality - as rafa puts it - seperates the winners from the losers. that's part of why we're behind in the league. that's part of why arsenal lost it.

don't disagree with the concept of a winning mentality but i think we've been unlucky in the chances we've not converted. purely because we've had those chances and largely bossed the games against them, i don't believe that utd always beat us with a superior gameplan. if we get the first goal against them, everything is different. their goals largely come from set pieces too which is more about carelessness in our defending rather than belief when up against them imho.

[Skillz]

So how do you explain the fact that we've spent about the same as them during the PL era?

We've had the money, and we've spent it. Usually on tripe.

That's our fault, it's not a lack of money, it's a lack of knowing how to spend it.

I'll have a crack at that. Manu have a much bigger turnover due to

- Stadium size
- better marketing

They also had a fantastic group of players come through the system that meant they only had to focus on plugging the gaps. With their greater turnover they could afford a much larger wage bill and much larger transfer fees.

We demand to compete but we do not have the resources and therefore we are in a catch 22 because we change managers and have to rebuild so we take a step backwards. However we have turned the corner because we have an astute manger now in Rafa, who

- see's the need to build from within
- attract's the best talent
- is one of the very best managers in the world
- he loves us

Now all we need is

- a new stadium
- stable ownership
- better marketing/commercialism
- more funds would be nice, but more turnover is critical.

Once we have those we can afford more "Torres" signings on our wage bill.

Most of all though we need to keep Rafa. He is building a dynasty right before our eyes and it looks like he is prepared to take on anybody that is prepared to stand in his way.

Already a massive legend in my eyes and if he is allowed to go I will be distraught.

[Skillz]

And including £35m on their total, when they havent actually spent it, doesnt really help.

Except for the fact that 35M GBP worth of talent is already polaying for them, so I would say it does count. Seeing as we are talking about why they are superior