Do we expect too much??

[rage]

Third as best is what we should expect until DIC buy the club.

You can't just take figures on how much we and United have spent. United had a far better squad when they started to spend the big bucks and also the same manager with the same system.

They also had a lot better youth system than us and that also means that they will get more for the youth team players they sell on.

Rafa for example had to build up the whole club again from top to bottom and couldn't afford to gamble on quality before quantity because it would be a disaster if we missed out on the CL.

There are so many things you will have to count in, not just how much money you spend.

he's had 4 years to do everything you point out. time to compete amigo. no more catch up at xmas and out by mid Jan.

[Guest]

he's had 4 years to do everything you point out. time to compete amigo. no more catch up at xmas and out by mid Jan.

[BFG]

he's had 4 years to do everything you point out. time to compete amigo. no more catch up at xmas and out by mid Jan.

If only Man Utd's board had been so impatient with Ferguson eh?

Rafa's doing just fine and the with the finals and trophies we've had since he's been here we should be very grateful indeed.

[fred_plasticine]

Third as best is what we should expect until DIC buy the club.
You can't just take figures on how much we and United have spent. United had a far better squad when they started to spend the big bucks and also the same manager with the same system.

They also had a lot better youth system than us and that also means that they will get more for the youth team players they sell on.

Rafa for example had to build up the whole club again from top to bottom and couldn't afford to gamble on quality before quantity because it would be a disaster if we missed out on the CL.

There are so many things you will have to count in, not just how much money you spend.

then what? they ****ing buy us the league title? hand us little ****ing plastic flags on match-days? sorry mate, you and your dic agenda, you're really doing my head in...

[Craig_H]

The fact is we have never been abel to compete with Man U for players and our most expensive player before Torres was 14m

They have had many players for more then 20m

They are far richer then we are and have been for a long time.

That means they can spend very differently and as said before on far more expensive players.

How could we 'not compete', when our spending during the PL era has been about the same as their's?

If i spend £30k on 5 Fiesta's and you spend £30k on a merc, on what basis could i say 'i couldnt compete with him' ?

We spent about the same as them, but with each summer kitty, we bought 5 piles of ****e, while they bought one diamond.

[Craig_H]

Which was the whole point in getting new owners in.

It is all about money and resources.

So how do you explain the fact that we've spent about the same as them during the PL era?

We've had the money, and we've spent it. Usually on tripe.

That's our fault, it's not a lack of money, it's a lack of knowing how to spend it.

[BFG]

then what? they ****ing buy us the league title? hand us little ****ing plastic flags on match-days? sorry mate, you and your dic agenda, you're really doing my head in...

Bit harsh perhaps. I'm sure he only goes on about DIC so much because they have been the only realistic buyer to get us out of the **** we're in with Hicks and Gillett. If they're able to get rid of those two pricks then hooray for DIC.

[Craig_H]

United were able to go out last summer and spend over £30m on two virtual unknowns - Nani and Anderson.

Now whatever way you look at it, that is hard to compete with.

Virtual unknowns?? Anyone worth their salt knew that Nani and Anderson were seen as two of Europe's most promising young talents.

People keep saying we 'cant compete', and when told of the fact that during the PL period, we've spent about the same as them, they brush this under the carpet and repeat the same chant 'we cant compete with them', despite it being proven wrong.

[Craig_H]

Sydney, take note.

Fredo - we have spent about the same amount of cash as united have during the premier league era.

And Bellamy isnt better than Rooney.

Take note.

[Craig_H]

it's not about the money, i'm not having that.
2006 we finished a point behind united. both them and us have kept their key players from that season.
united bought only added carrick, a player who hardly set the world on fire, kept it simple and was rather laughed at than anything else.
the main differnce is that their key players have gone from strength to strength ever since while some of our's had inconsistent seasons.
united's success this season has been first and foremost built on an excellent defence, as excellent as our's in 2006. yet our defence has been shakey and while injuries haven't helped, it's rather down to player's performances.
you can add 20-odd million men each season it won't improve your overall performances if other key players lose their form which is what happened to us.
pako said the squad's not mentally ready for a title push just yet.
the performances vindicated him i'd say.

[Craig_H]

It is about the money. If we spend the same as Utd but it's spread over 5 or 6 players and theirs over 2 or 3 their individual quality of purchase will be better. Rafa now has the squad so he can start spending big on one or two as long as we have some of our loan money left.

And that's our fault, nobody else's.

So no, it's not about the money, it's about how you spend it.

[BFG]

So how do you explain the fact that we've spent about the same as them during the PL era?

We've had the money, and we've spent it. Usually on tripe.

That's our fault, it's not a lack of money, it's a lack of knowing how to spend it.

Our biggest failing has been backing the wrong manager. Houllier was given good money. 60% of his first team signings weren't good enough and a large amount of his 'squad' players were shockingly poor and alarmingly expensive. Ged did OK but he was playing catch up and simply didn't have what it takes.

That lead to the current scenario where Rafa is too playing catch up, albeit with less money as he sees that so many areas of the team/ club need overhauling that the money becomes thin when spread around. Look at the squad Rafa inherited and the one he has now. For £80mil net spend that's a hell of an achievement. Continue to back him and we continue to improve in my book and now we have a situation where the manager needs to add a couple of 'complete' players every season in the Mascer, Torres mould so we have a strong foundation to build on. Rafa deserves 3 seasons from now and if we ever really want to catch up some fans needto have more patience as any managerial change and the squad changes that would follow would only serve to leave us in a position where thorough rebuilding is needed again.

[barnes10]

its not about money no. rafa v fergie is about everything but money.

rafa starts with a **** club and an average squad. utd start with a championship winning one.

rafa re-builds whilst fergie cherry picks the best to fit into his already strong club.

we have had to buy more players with the same money. so they have been able to buy world class whilst we've bought a mix between world class (torres/masher/reina), (very good(alonso, kuyt), average (morientes, bellamy) and the odd flop (nunez/josemi) as well as investing in youth.

we've had to replace the likes of diao, smicer, biscan with squad players otherwise we wouldnt have had a squad when they left. would you have extended the contracts of any of them? would you fook.

Rafa's doing a very good job and needs one or two to top his squad off as fergie has been doing for the last decade. 4 more players and we should be expecting to compete for the title?

[Craig_H]

Our biggest failing has been backing the wrong manager. Houllier was given good money. 60% of his first team signings weren't good enough and a large amount of his 'squad' players were shockingly poor and alarmingly expensive. Ged did OK but he was playing catch up and simply didn't have what it takes.

That lead to the current scenario where Rafa is too playing catch up, albeit with less money as he sees that so many areas of the team/ club need overhauling that the money becomes thin when spread around. Look at the squad Rafa inherited and the one he has now. For £80mil net spend that's a hell of an achievement. Continue to back him and we continue to improve in my book and now we have a situation where the manager needs to add a couple of 'complete' players every season in the Mascer, Torres mould so we have a strong foundation to build on. Rafa deserves 3 seasons from now and if we ever really want to catch up some fans needto have more patience as any managerial change and the squad changes that would follow would only serve to leave us in a position where thorough rebuilding is needed again.

So our problem has been poor decision making (when it comes to signings and arguably, managers too). Not money.

[BFG]

And that's our fault, nobody else's.

So no, it's not about the money, it's about how you spend it.

Historically it is our fault I agree but it isn't Rafa's fault. He hasn't wasted money ala Diouf, Cheyrou, Diao, and when he does make a mistake he tends to get a fair amount of the outlay back in. He also makes money by buying young players and moving them on if they aren't needed.

Rafa has 'had' to spend money like that, it isn't due to bad choices on his part.

The biggest problem we've had in the last ten years is signing very expensive **** and taking peanuts for them three years later after they've had £40k a week. **** CEO and a poor manager in transfer dealings (Houllier) are the reason Rafa has had to spend the way he has while Fergie can blow his entire funds on one or two great players.