Do we expect too much??

[Craig_H]

Can you tell me how the match tomorrow will end? You have obviously a time machine to help you out so if it's not to much trouble then can you please use it so I can have a bet on the right result and the right Lotto numbers would be nice to.

Thank you

No need for the bitchy tone AFII, i was merely stating that Kewell and Morientes werent top players - and the whole point of my argument is that we should sign top players.

[Craig_H]

And that there is what others seem to miss. Weakest link and all that!

So, given that it's a team sport, we shouldnt have signed Nando Torres?

How come others manage to sign top players and still realise it's a team sport? They win titles too, dontcha know...

[einar]

No need for apologies, your english is fine, i had no idea it wasnt your first language...that's a measure of how good it actually is.

I'm still not sure what question you're asking though mate.

The better players would most likely perform well. But they are part of a team witch because of the presence of the better players would also include some worse players. So for the last time, why are you so sure the team would be better with a few stars and many players less then average.

Surely that would disrupt the balance of the team etc.

[El Jefecito]

So, given that it's a team sport, we shouldnt have signed Nando Torres?

How come others manage to sign top players and still realise it's a team sport? They win titles too, dontcha know...

You are over simplifying. We needed to fix the squad first.

Tarore or Fabio
Biscan or Lucas
Agger or no-one
Skrtel or no-one
Mascher or Diao
Reina or Dudek
Arbeloa or no-one
Kuyt or Smicer
Babel or Kewell

Torres needs better quality around him to do as well as he has. If we still had the Houiller players I can guarantee that TOrres would not be as successful as he has this season. That's why we say it is a team game.

[AFII]

No need for the bitchy tone AFII, i was merely stating that Kewell and Morientes werent top players - and the whole point of my argument is that we should sign top players.

Nando was a no match fit top player and Kewell was seen as the best young left winger in the league.

No one could know that he wouldn't succeed and no one could know the injury problems Kewell would get.

We needed a player like Nando at that time so Rafa did the right signing at that time.

It's very easy when you know the result.

[El Jefecito]

The better players would most likely perform well. But they are part of a team witch because of the presence of the better players would also include some worse players. So for the last time, why are you so sure the team would be better with a few stars and many players less then average.

Surely that would disrupt the balance of the team etc.

And we'd have a smaller squad and the players would be shagged at this part of the season.

[dww]

And we'd have a smaller squad and the players would be shagged at this part of the season.

It is clearly some sort of balance. Arsenal are finishing above us in the league this year yet we have done better in the CL. I think Rafa has been here long enough that at the very least we have to judge which of ourselves or Arsenal will build from a stronger base next season.

It is difficult to call IMO and given Wenger's head start in terms of having established his youth policy and buying in the type of players he wants I think that can be stated to be a decent job done by Rafa even if he has spent more (in that he has also won more in the period since his arrival). The real test will be what he can do this summer if he is again backed with a decent but not astronomical budget as far as I can see.

[Craig_H]

The better players would most likely perform well. But they are part of a team witch because of the presence of the better players would also include some worse players. So for the last time, why are you so sure the team would be better with a few stars and many players less then average.

Surely that would disrupt the balance of the team etc.

Because, if you have top players in key areas, they can win you games, while the 'lesser' players would be in the 'lower impact' areas, where you dont need top, world class superstars. Arbeloa and Aurelio, for example, are fairly standard, 'average' cheap players - but they do the job.

[El Jefecito]

It is clearly some sort of balance. Arsenal are finishing above us in the league this year yet we have done better in the CL. I think Rafa has been here long enough that at the very least we have to judge which of ourselves or Arsenal will build from a stronger base next season.

It is difficult to call IMO and given Wenger's head start in terms of having established his youth policy and buying in the type of players he wants I think that can be stated to be a decent job done by Rafa even if he has spent more (in that he has also won more in the period since his arrival). The real test will be what he can do this summer if he is again backed with a decent but not astronomical budget as far as I can see.

I don't know the answer, but how many players in the Arsenal first choice 11 have come through the reserves i.e. 16+ year olds who have been developed into the first team squad?

[El Jefecito]

Because, if you have top players in key areas, they can win you games, while the 'lesser' players would be in the 'lower impact' areas, where you dont need top, world class superstars. Arbeloa and Aurelio, for example, are fairly standard, 'average' cheap players - but they do the job.

So you are saying we should spend on the sqaud and if money allows we should pay big bucks for players that would form the spine?

[einar]

Because, if you have top players in key areas, they can win you games, while the 'lesser' players would be in the 'lower impact' areas, where you dont need top, world class superstars. Arbeloa and Aurelio, for example, are fairly standard, 'average' cheap players - but they do the job.

And witch of the front 4 of our 4-2-3-1 is not s key area?
Because all the players mentioned where attackers.

[El Jefecito]

You are over simplifying. We needed to fix the squad first.

Tarore or Fabio
Biscan or Lucas
Agger or no-one
Skrtel or no-one
Mascher or Diao
Reina or Dudek
Arbeloa or no-one
Kuyt or Smicer
Babel or Kewell

Torres needs better quality around him to do as well as he has. If we still had the Houiller players I can guarantee that TOrres would not be as successful as he has this season. That's why we say it is a team game.

Still loooking for DJS' insight.

[Craig_H]

So you are saying we should spend on the sqaud and if money allows we should pay big bucks for players that would form the spine?

That much is obvious, but the problem is we've replaced average reserves with average reserves, who arent much better, at major expense.

BTW, i was banned for 'replying to too many posts', so dont expect me to answer every single one of them, that is, bizarrely, considered a banning offence by the loons running this asylum...

[El Jefecito]

That much is obvious, but the problem is we've replaced average reserves with average reserves, who arent much better, at major expense.

Disagree, I think we've upgraded our squad players. See the other thread for a like to like comparison.

[dww]

I don't know the answer, but how many players in the Arsenal first choice 11 have come through the reserves i.e. 16+ year olds who have been developed into the first team squad?

No idea but I think you have to accept that the likes of Eboue, Clichy, Toure, Fabregas etc have developed a great deal under Wenger and were bought by Wenger at a time when they had more potential than actual ability and for a fraction of the value we have paid for some squad members. The likes of Eboue and Toure have come through clubs who appear to be run as effective feeder teams for Arsenal so Wenger deserves credit for picking them early and then developing them to top PL standard.

Reasonably you could add the idea that top quality gambles on youth like Walcott has allowed them in general to move forward more this season than our similar initial outlay on Pennant say.

I tend to agree that we needed more squad members of better quality or at least different style than some would like to admit when Rafa arrived (it is easy to attack signings with hindsight and hypothetical alternatives). I still think the balance of the way we have done our business has been slightly too much towards squad players and not enough really top potential. For example could the £3m spent on Leto have been put to better use added to the Benayoun money for one player (although he may become a solid player and we haven't seen much yet, but I have seen no signs and heard no talk that he is a wonderkid type signing)?

I guess it is all pretty unknowable and if I had to back anyones judgement on the matter it would be Rafa's (it would be interesting to hear Mourinho or Fergie's honest thoughts too).