Dirkey Kuytie

[Jayesh87]

Simple really if you think about it, with the exception of UTD away, since Dirk was playing RM and Stevie behind Nando we havent lost in the league and only to Chelsea away in the CL. In that time he hasnt scored in the league. In that time also we have scored more goals than the opposition in each of the games hence THE TEAM has won???
If it aint broke dont fix it, Dirk aint broke he just isnt Fernando Torres.
I fail to see how any other player within reason (so not feckin Ronaldo or Messi) could have done more for the team than Dirk has?

What if Nando/Stevie get injured??

Surely that is just to much pressure on 2 players to score the goals if Kuyt is not scoring?

[Craig_H]

Simple really if you think about it, with the exception of UTD away, since Dirk was playing RM and Stevie behind Nando we havent lost in the league and only to Chelsea away in the CL. In that time he hasnt scored in the league. In that time also we have scored more goals than the opposition in each of the games hence THE TEAM has won???
If it aint broke dont fix it, Dirk aint broke he just isnt Fernando Torres.
I fail to see how any other player within reason (so not feckin Ronaldo or Messi) could have done more for the team than Dirk has?

Do you not think that it's merely a coincidence that Kuyt's playing and we've had that run?

You dont actually think it's because he's in the team, do you?

I'm sure with a better player (who offers a proper goal threat) in that position, we might also go on a similar, or even better run of results, in future.

[lfcruleus]

Do you not think that it's merely a coincidence that Kuyt's playing and we've had that run?

You dont actually think it's because he's in the team, do you?

I'm sure with a better player (who offers a proper goal threat) in that position, we might also go on a similar, or even better run of results, in future.

It certainly isnt a coincidence, but also not the whole reason.

Just check the MOM stats since he has played there?

And you fail to answer who you would think "realistically" would have offered more, not just in the sense of goals/assists but all round game.

People are blinkered as he is a "striker" that it is all about goalscoring, thankfully Rafa isnt.

I really cant wait till next season when he is still starting there and you lot will just have to accept it.

[Gray]

Do you not think that it's merely a coincidence that Kuyt's playing and we've had that run?

You dont actually think it's because he's in the team, do you?

I'm sure with a better player (who offers a proper goal threat) in that position, we might also go on a similar, or even better run of results, in future.

I concur, but you're wrong.

[Red_hot]

It certainly isnt a coincidence, but also not the whole reason.

Just check the MOM stats since he has played there?

And you fail to answer who you would think "realistically" would have offered more, not just in the sense of goals/assists but all round game.

People are blinkered as he is a "striker" that it is all about goalscoring, thankfully Rafa isnt.
I really cant wait till next season when he is still starting there and you lot will just have to accept it.

Spot on mate!

[lfcruleus]

What if Nando/Stevie get injured??

Surely that is just to much pressure on 2 players to score the goals if Kuyt is not scoring?

I am not suggesting we dont need another striker if PC is leaving, only that Kuyt is constantly moaned at for a lack of goals but i think 11 goals and 11 assists from effectively an advanced midfield position, i think only twice up front, isnt that bad. Selectively people dismiss the CL goals for some reason.
I have watched Liverpool for 30 years and noone has ever given more to that shirt than Dirk Kuyt and i mean noone. And i will state again, that if the entire squad put in the shift Dirk does everytime he pulls on the shirt then we wouldnt be in 4th place, no chance.

[El Jefecito]

staggering statistic - kuyt has scored one league goal from open play all season and even that he knew nothing about.

ged rid we've never won anything with him in the team and we never will (ok one is a statistic the other an assumption)

funny these statistic things - you can dress them up to make even **** sound like a meal fit for a king.

Winston Churchill said of statistics, "Never trust them unless you falsified them yourself"

[Craig_H]

It certainly isnt a coincidence, but also not the whole reason.

Just check the MOM stats since he has played there?

And you fail to answer who you would think "realistically" would have offered more, not just in the sense of goals/assists but all round game.

People are blinkered as he is a "striker" that it is all about goalscoring, thankfully Rafa isnt.

I really cant wait till next season when he is still starting there and you lot will just have to accept it.

The last line is a bit silly IMO, it's not about us lot trying to 'outdo' each other or anything, we all just want the best for the club and have different ideas on what would provide that.

As previously mentioned, i think that, when you have a system that uses 4 players as its attacking threat and the rest are utilised as defensive options, the four attacking players should all be just that - and should all offer a serious goal threat too. Kuyt doesnt do that. It's an absurdity to me that one quarter of our 'attacking' unit is in the side for 'defensive' skills. It reminds me of the Heskey thing - the 'best defensive striker in the league' nonsense. Sounds very daft to me.

I know you're pointing to his work rate and what he offers defensively, but that's not what i'm after from 25% of our attacking force. I want them to do the job they're there for first and foremost. If they they offer something defensively too, then great, it's a bonus. But their prime role should be an attacking one. Kuyt isnt good enough in the attacking third and someone like David Bentley would be better iMO.

As for

People are blinkered as he is a "striker" that it is all about goalscoring, thankfully Rafa isnt.

It's not ALL about goalscoring no, but an attacking player's main objective is to contribute significantly to the attacking side of the team - usually that's scoring and creating goals. You're not telling me that 'defensive duties' are one of the crucial characteristics a striker should have?

[El Jefecito]

The last line is a bit silly IMO, it's not about us lot trying to 'outdo' each other or anything, we all just want the best for the club and have different ideas on what would provide that.

As previously mentioned, i think that, when you have a system that uses 4 players as its attacking threat and the rest are utilised as defensive options, the four attacking players should all be just that - and should all offer a serious goal threat too. Kuyt doesnt do that. It's an absurdity to me that one quarter of our 'attacking' unit is in the side for 'defensive' skills. It reminds me of the Heskey thing - the 'best defensive striker in the league' nonsense. Sounds very daft to me.

I know you're pointing to his work rate and what he offers defensively, but that's not what i'm after from 25% of our attacking force. I want them to do the job they're there for first and foremost. If they they offer something defensively too, then great, it's a bonus. But their prime role should be an attacking one. Kuyt isnt good enough in the attacking third and someone like David Bentley would be better iMO.

To be fair, Kuyt does have more goals and assists than Bentley. But the point is well taken a true RW could add much more to our game. Just not convinced that Bentley is that man.

[Craig_H]

To be fair, Kuyt does have more goals and assists than Bentley. But the point is well taken a true RW could add much more to our game. Just not convinced that Bentley is that man.

Not in the Premier League he doesnt mate. And in any case, he SHOULD do, he's a striker after all. The reason he's playing wide right now, is that he isnt good enough as a striker.

[Craig_H]

Just to give an example (and i know there arent many RWs like Ronaldo) but compare the output of kuyt to that of Ronaldo and ask yourselves if we'd be a better team with someone of Ronaldo's capabilities, or someone of Kuyt's.

[El Jefecito]

Not in the Premier League he doesnt mate. And in any case, he SHOULD do, he's a striker after all. The reason he's playing wide right now, is that he isnt good enough as a striker.

I just meant in football games. To be sure he's not awesome but a/ he's the best we have in that role b/ he's playing RW not as a striker and c/ Bentley is still not much of an upgrade IMO.

Given his limitations and our tactics he's done ok, especially in the intangibles of work rate, bringing others into the game, mentality, etc.

We CAN do better but let's recognise that he has done a decent job for us.

[El Jefecito]

Just to give an example (and i know there arent many RWs like Ronaldo) but compare the output of kuyt to that of Ronaldo and ask yourselves if we'd be a better team with someone of Ronaldo's capabilities, or someone of Kuyt's.

That's unfair Ronaldo is a FREAK. And I agree there are better options than Kuyt out there and TBH I'd be disappointed if he was first choice next year. But like I say given what we've got he's done a great job for us in a position he's not used to.

[Darkon]

As for

It's not ALL about goalscoring no, but an attacking player's main objective is to contribute significantly to the attacking side of the team - usually that's scoring and creating goals. You're not telling me that 'defensive duties' are one of the crucial characteristics a striker should have? [/QUOTE]

Sorta my point as well... Kuyt does well and he works his *** off for the team, it is just not the main attributes of an attacking player. A winger should score goals on a regular basis, and should offer a thread down the wing, dribbles, crosses etc.

As I said earlier, judged on his workrate and stamina I would be excited if he played maschers position, but not as a right winger - not least in our current system where he is placed high on the pitch...

[Craig_H]

I just meant in football games. To be sure he's not awesome but a/ he's the best we have in that role b/ he's playing RW not as a striker and c/ Bentley is still not much of an upgrade IMO.

Given his limitations and our tactics he's done ok, especially in the intangibles of work rate, bringing others into the game, mentality, etc.

We CAN do better but let's recognise that he has done a decent job for us.

No doubt he's done ok, but that's the point...'ok' is just that.

And, like most players, he's judged by the standards he's set himself which, if we're honest, arent exactly top notch. 14 goals last year was a decent return, this campaign he's gone backwards and just doesnt have the speed, strength, touch or clinical finishing ability in front of goal - he needs at least ONE of those things and he lacks them all.